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Old 10-31-2007, 03:26 AM   #1
drees
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Default Oil Analysis: 8400mi on M1 5w30 - 03 WRX

Another 8400mi on M1 5w30 & OEM oil filter.



Note that wear metals are up slightly from last time, most likely because of the fuel dilution. Still, the wear numbers are no worse than the universal averages which indicates that no abnormal wear is going on, just slightly abnormal for my engine.

So where is that fuel dilution coming from? Well, about half way through the OCI I stopped driving the WRX daily for my 22 mi mostly freeway commute and driving our other car. My wife has been driving the WRX for short trips around town, errands, etc and I would commute in it perhaps once or twice a week at most.

With the bit of fuel dilution, I will likely shorten the oil change interval back to 7500 mi to see what a whole OCI with the same conditions do to the oil. I doubt that it will be much different than this one.

I refilled the sump with Amsoil ASL 5w30 and a Wix oil filter. I think that the slightly thicker Amsoil should hold up very well even with a bit of fuel contamination, so I should be able to maintain ~8500 OCIs, but better safe than sorry.

Link to discussion on BITOG: http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...Number=1019721
Link to previous UOA: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1160912
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Last edited by drees; 10-31-2007 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 10-31-2007, 04:09 AM   #2
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wow thats nice....what filter are you running?
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Old 10-31-2007, 05:17 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by prometheum View Post
wow thats nice....what filter are you running?
Subaru/OEM oil filter.
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Old 10-31-2007, 07:44 AM   #4
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Nice to know that about M1 5w-30 in your car. Mine seems really thin (gas mileage goes up) at the end of about 4000 miles (an exception to my 3000 mile changes). I am driving primarily on hilly twisty backroads (daily multiple short trips). Boost is up to 19 psi (open loop) on really cold air (stg 3), and revs go high too.

But from your data, it looks like I could drive to LA and back to MD without changing the oil; maybe needing a little makeup oil along the way.
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Old 10-31-2007, 09:45 AM   #5
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Even the the 5W30 is thicker, do you think that M1 10W30 would have held up better in San Diego with the fuel dilution? Hopefully your lead will stay in the single digits. Amsoil will probably do really well for you.

I can never understand Blackstone's recommendations to extend the interval when fuel knocks the viscosity down a grade. Now the "should be" column is saying that the oil should be at least 8.8 cst's (20 grade).

Great report though given the interval in a 2.0!

-Dennis
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Old 10-31-2007, 04:25 PM   #6
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Glad to see that your engine didn't grenade from sheer proximity of M1.

Be interesting to see what Amsoil looks like after a while.

Might also be interesting to see what Pennz Plat looked like after a while...
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Old 11-01-2007, 03:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z&cobb View Post
Nice to know that about M1 5w-30 in your car. Mine seems really thin (gas mileage goes up) at the end of about 4000 miles (an exception to my 3000 mile changes). I am driving primarily on hilly twisty backroads (daily multiple short trips). Boost is up to 19 psi (open loop) on really cold air (stg 3), and revs go high too.
Don't forget that my car is a mildly driven Stg 2. More boost, lots of time near redline and shorter trips are all things that can significantly affect your oil's performance. UOAs will let you know how your oil is holding up for your use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by z&cobb View Post
But from your data, it looks like I could drive to LA and back to MD without changing the oil; maybe needing a little makeup oil along the way.
Cross country trips are just about the easiest thing you can do for an engine, unless you are spending lots of time significantly above speed limits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Even the the 5W30 is thicker, do you think that M1 10W30 would have held up better in San Diego with the fuel dilution?
No, I really don't. I think the M1 10w30 has a couple things going against it:

1. Slightly thinner when hot.
2. Narrower viscosity range means it will likely thin out more than the 5w30 when really hot since it has slightly less viscosity index agents.

In theory it shouldn't shear as much as the 5w30 since it should have fewer VI agents, but I've also heard that the base stock is good enough that the VI agents required for the 5w30 are minimal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Amsoil will probably do really well for you.
The oldest UOA on the chart is Amsoil ASL 5w30. It's also the UOA with the lowest wear numbers I've seen, so yeah, I think it'll do fine.

The only reason I'm running Amsoil this time is that I also recently changed the transmission and rear diff fluid for the Amsoil SVG gear oil. Otherwise I would have stuck with M1 5w30 or checked the local Autozone to see if they have the GC 0w30.
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Old 11-01-2007, 09:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drees View Post
In theory it shouldn't shear as much as the 5w30 since it should have fewer VI agents, but I've also heard that the base stock is good enough that the VI agents required for the 5w30 are minimal.
Oh yeah. I remember reading about very few VII's in M1 5W30 back when Ed Hackett wrote his "Everything You Wanted to Know About Oil" article.

He ran GC for a long time in his Rex with great results. He has an '08 LGT now so he'll be running Rotella 10W30 every 3,750 for the warranty ( @ SoA and the owners responsible due to not checking the oil).

I'm switching to Amsoil gear oil as well, now that Specialty Formulations is on indefinite hiatus. I loved the MTL-R.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 11-01-2007 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 11-01-2007, 02:35 PM   #9
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congrats! very nice to see that kind of milage out of M1 5-30. it's almost unbelieveable you use the same filter throughout the OCI? i run about 8K but change the filter half way through... i may run it staight through this time and see what happens to insolubles.
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Old 11-09-2007, 03:36 AM   #10
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Yep, same filter throughout the OCI.
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Old 12-01-2007, 02:36 AM   #11
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I've been running Mobil 1 in my 2002 WRX since the first oil change after break-in. I was changing it every 7,500 miles since my driving pretty well conforms to the 'regular' service interval -- lots of highway miles, commute is almost 50 miles one way, no short trips, etc (although it does see high rpm regularly).

I've now got about 135,000 miles on it. It doesn't burn much oil at all -- in fact, I can generally go from one oil change to the next without adding a drop. About 10 or 15,000 miles ago I switched to changing it every 5,000 miles because it seemed that as the oil got over 5 or 6,000 miles on it, it would get thinner. The reason I say this is that I would notice more engine noise -- particularly on cold starts, and I also noticed that engine would run much smoother after changing the oil after 7,500 miles.

At first I thought it might be psychological, but it became obvious that every time I would change the oil, the engine made much less noise on cold starts, and accelerated and decelerated (engine braking) more smoothly.

Has anyone else running M1 noticed this?
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Old 12-01-2007, 01:09 PM   #12
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guessing about the condition of your oil is no way to go about it. have a UOA done and set your mind to rest.
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Old 12-01-2007, 03:43 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hondaeater69 View Post
guessing about the condition of your oil is no way to go about it. have a UOA done and set your mind to rest.
I agree.

I was just asking if anyone else had noticed the same things I have.

Having the oil tested is a great idea, but regardless of the results, I would still have the same question:

Has anyone noticed more engine noise on cold start-up and/or rougher running toward the end of their change interval -- whether that's 2K or 10K miles?
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:24 PM   #14
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I havent but I have a question. I run royal purple for about 5000-6000 mi intervals, but I notice its REALLY time to change my oil when my gas mileage goes WAY down. Is this a regular thing with older oil?
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Old 12-01-2007, 09:24 PM   #15
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I havent but I have a question. I run royal purple for about 5000-6000 mi intervals, but I notice its REALLY time to change my oil when my gas mileage goes WAY down. Is this a regular thing with older oil?
I the type of compulsive person who keeps close track of the mileage my car is getting. I've never noticed that my mileage varies much at all.

I would guess that your mileage dropping off has some other cause. I hope so for your sake!

Have you noticed this every time you get close to your regular oil change, or just once or twice?

Royal Purple is good oil. It's hard to imagine that it would become contaminated or worn out enough in 5 or 6,000 miles that the increased friction would be even marginally noticeable, let alone cause your mileage to go 'way' down.

If you can't think of any other possible cause, I'd say take Hondaeater's advice and have your oil checked.
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Old 12-02-2007, 02:01 AM   #16
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Has anyone noticed more engine noise on cold start-up and/or rougher running toward the end of their change interval -- whether that's 2K or 10K miles?
Nope, never. I suspect it's all in your head.
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Old 12-02-2007, 01:59 PM   #17
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Nope, never. I suspect it's all in your head.
Damn, not again!

And the doctor swore the medication was working...
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Old 12-02-2007, 04:37 PM   #18
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if i were you i would HOPE it's in my head. if your engine is noticeable louder near the end fo your OCI, you're either low on oil or the oil is shot.

**** i really need to change my oil, i'm coming up on 7.5K (RP)
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:40 PM   #19
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It is probably psychological but I suffer from this disease as well. I get to about 4K on M1 5W30 or RP 5W30 and I feel the engine does not run as smooth (more of a feel than just noise). I check my oil every week, so it is never low. But I also feel that the car is faster with a full tank of gas.

I did confirm that my boots I wear for work have a thicker bottom then my sneakers so I tend to press the pedal more when driving, so in my world even your footwear can effect the speed of the car.
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Old 12-04-2007, 10:20 PM   #20
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I really do notice a difference in how my engine sounds right after I change the oil -- but just for the first few seconds after start-up. Otherwise it's the same.

It also seems to run smoother when accelerating and decelerating. My theory is that with fresh Mobil 1 the turbo is able to spool up easier and respond quicker to changes in exhaust flow.

The oil level has never even been close to the 'low' mark on the stick -- as I said above, it burns maybe 1 or 2 cups at most between changes.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

Is there a list somewhere of recommended places to have a UOA done?
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:38 AM   #21
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Blackstone Labs. A more detailed analysis is available from Dyson Analysis.

-Dennis
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:59 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Blackstone Labs. A more detailed analysis is available from Dyson Analysis.

-Dennis
Thanks Dennis, that's very helpful.

I take it you use Blackstone. How did you settle on them (vs. other similarly priced/comparable labs)? Their analysis seems pretty comprehensive -- under what circumstances would a person spend the extra $$ to go with Dyson? $22 vs. $60 is a big difference.
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Old 12-06-2007, 04:33 PM   #23
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Yes, I use Blackstone but I might be a good candidate for Dyson. My trips are five miles each way, Si never goes down into the single digits, I get high fuel dilution in the winter and I like an oil that stays in grade for 7,500 miles. I see 100 degree heat in summer and the single digits in winter. I want to keep my car for at least 150-200k miles.

Motul 8100 5W30 did really well for me last winter and I run Syntec 0W30 in summer. I'm too chicken to run M1 xW30 like you and drees.

Dyson works closely with each individual to make sure everything is in check. I've seen Blackstone tell people run their oil longer on their next interval after it sheared to a 20 weight and had high fuel. (oh wait! This thread!) I went with them because they're cheap and probably the most commonly used lab on bitog.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 12-06-2007 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 12-06-2007, 05:06 PM   #24
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FWIW, we use Dyson for the fleet at work (I also use Dyson personally and no, there is no relationship between the two nor do I get anything in any way from that coincidence nor from reporting my experience with Dyson). We have ~45 vehicles we've engaged him to monitor. We could use Blackstone, and for that matter we could use other labs through the local oil distributors. Those labs are almost as much lower than Blackstone in price as Dyson is higher. What I have found over time using the entire range of prices and services we're talking about, is that Dyson's service pays for itself.
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:24 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Yes, I use Blackstone but I might be a good candidate for Dyson. My trips are five miles each way, Si never goes down into the single digits, I get high fuel dilution in the winter and I like an oil that stays in grade for 7,500 miles. I see 100 degree heat in summer and the single digits in winter. I want to keep my car for at least 150-200k miles.

Motul 8100 5W30 did really well for me last winter and I run Syntec 0W30 in summer. I'm too chicken to run M1 xW30 like you and drees.

Dyson works closely with each individual to make sure everything is in check. I've seen Blackstone tell people run their oil longer on their next interval after it sheared to a 20 weight and had high fuel. (oh wait! This thread!) I went with them because they're cheap and probably the most commonly used lab on bitog.

-Dennis
I've asked the folks at Blackstone this and I'm waiting for an answer, but I'd like to ask you also:

Under what circumstances would it make sense for a person to pay the extra
money for a Dyson analysis?

Who are your [Blackstone's] typical customers? How about Dyson's customers?

I'm assuming that the Blackstone lab report will be more than adequate for
our vehicles which are just street driven, is that correct?
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