Honda S2000 CR vs. Nissan Nismo 350Z (Road & Track)

[NYCshopper]

Honda S2000 CR vs. Nissan Nismo 350Z (Road & Track)

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6057

Don't judge a book by its cover. Both of these winged wonders are all about improved lap times, yet neither of them has a single engine modification.

Both are limited-production models, shod with sticky 140-treadwear Bridgestone tires, aren't happy on bumpy roads, and attract cops better than a fresh glazed old-fashioned. Chances are if you see one of these on the street, it's on the way to a track. We got these two together and did what would be expected: We took them to the track.

Honda S2000 CR

To some, this bright-blue 2008 Honda S2000 sports car may look like it has been the victim of an overzealous young import tuner who got his hands on his daddy's Visa card and went wild with a parts catalogue. But in actuality, it is a limited-edition, well-engineered, in-house creation from the Japanese manufacturer itself.

Dubbed the S2000 CR (for "Club Racer"), this new model is available in three additional colors — white, black and yellow. And with production limited to around 1500 cars/year, this sub-$40,000 hardtop roadster features numerous add-ons — and deletions — from the standard car.

To help save weight, both the air conditioning and sound system have been removed (they can be added back as options); sound insulation, the spare tire and the jack are also missing in action. A light — under 50 lb. — removable aluminum hardtop takes the place of the power folding soft top with a body brace filling the vacated space, helping to improve structural rigidity by 11 percent.

New bodywork, including the redesigned front spoiler, large rear wing and contoured rear deck behind the headrests, all help to decrease lift by more than 70 percent. And interior touches include black fabric with yellow inserts and stitching, an aluminum shift knob and a revamped instrument display that features a green "peak-power indicator" light that illuminates to alert the driver that it's time to shift. Exceed the redline, and the red zone of the tachometer begins flashing.

The S2000 has long been a favorite of ours to track-test. "The balance of this car is just great. You get mild understeer at turn-in, but it's so mild that you can be hard on the throttle early to get good exit speed," is how our hot-shoe guest driver Steve Millen, winner of the 12 Hours of Sebring and a class victor at the 24 Hours of Le Mans, described its performance in our "Best All-Around Sports Car" comparison held at Buttonwillow Raceway (R&T, March 2005). And Feature Editor Mike Monticello, no slouch himself behind the wheel, described the small sports car's handling as "the easiest with which to execute beautiful 4-wheel drifts through Buttonwillow's faster corners — man, is it fun."

But the new S2000 CR gains even more ground thanks to a plethora of improvements: 38 percent stiffer spring rates up front, 17 percent at the rear, working in concert with 50 percent stiffer damping rates up front, 32 percent in back; larger front and rear anti-roll bars; ground-gripping Bridgestone Potenza RE070 tires and steering rack attachment points that are 30 percent stiffer for quicker steering and improved feedback. On the Waterford Hills race course outside of Detroit, it was immediately evident that this iteration of Honda's sports car was more enjoyable to drive than ever.

One area that goes unchanged is under the hood. According to Honda, additional power wasn't an option without going to forced induction; there's simply no room left to increase displacement (originally starting out as a 2.0-liter, the engine was bored-out to 2.2 liters for the 2004 model year). Still, the VTEC valve-timing-adjusted inline 4-cylinder belts out a solid 237 horses, its power not feeling as peaky as it did in its early years, and falsettos to a very impressive 8000-rpm redline. Still, one can't help wondering if the engine of this Club Racer model should have sacrificed a few revs for a bit more midrange torque.

Polarizing looks aside, about the only area of real complaint is in the car's ergonomics: The driver's seat, lacking height adjustment, feels like it sits too high. And forget adjusting the steering-wheel position — it doesn't.

Thanks in part to its aero additions — but especially due to what's missing from the standard amenities list — only the hard-core set need apply for Honda S2000 CR ownership. But those brave enough to roam the everyday world sans a/c and the comforting sounds of Celine Dion, Travis Tritt or 50 Cent will be rewarded with unforgettably quick and precise steering, robust handling and quite possibly the nicest shifting in any car on the planet.

NISSAN NISMO 350Z

Clearly not a car for everyone, the Nismo 350Z takes some getting used to. Its styling is a bit over the top but that's okay, as only 1500 cars are coming to the U.S. The car's body kit resembles the racing Zs that compete in Super GT — what used to be the Japanese Grand Touring Championship series — but we're not so sure we believe Nissan when they tell us the wing and splitter really improve the aerodynamics. Yet once behind the wheel, we can attest that any car enthusiast would be delighted with this car's handling and overall performance.

Built in Tochigi, Japan, the limited-production Nismo Z starts life by having its chassis stitch-welded by Autech, the company that builds a variety of Nissan's racing cars. This improves the chassis strength and stiffness by augmenting the factory's spot-welding. Then come the usual bits that go on any Track model Z, but as would be expected, the use of the most sporting components is what separates this Z from the rest.

Special lightweight forged wheels are supplied by RAYS. Front and rear braces have been added to the chassis, and two unusual chassis dampers from Yamaha are fitted, one in front of the radiator, the other in the rear under the cargo area. They absorb chassis vibrations that would otherwise upset the car, and the result is improved stability when cornering. This is the best Z we've driven on the track, so it's clear that it all works. Springs and dampers are slightly stiffer than those of the Track model, but otherwise the components are identical to those of an MT6-equipped car and include a viscous limited-slip differential and the Brembo brake package.

The interior sports two-tone cloth with manual seat adjustments. The tachometer is Nismo-specific with reversed coloring. On the center console is a brushed-aluminum plaque signifying the car's rarity and cost. There are no options, but the Nismo does come with side and curtain airbags, cruise control, a base 160-watt stereo and climate control. All of which is perfect for that drive to the track. The stereo and a/c were sorely missed in the Honda.

There have been numerous updates to the Z since its debut. And the Nismo Z is the culmination of those improvements. The VQ35HR is the newest iteration of Nissan's acclaimed V-6 — now standard on all Zs and producing 306 horsepower while revving freely, thanks to variable exhaust cam timing, improved breathing and higher compression. The Nismo version gains an exhaust that may or may not improve performance but sounds good and looks appropriate. The transmission that was once overly cumbersome in early cars has become slicker, yet it pales in comparison to the superb Honda unit. Both cars are impressive performers, though, so what it really comes down to is track performance.

After braving the potholes of Michigan's roads, we arrived at Waterford Hills Road Racing circuit — a small local track I am quite familiar with, now being a Michigan resident myself. The cars were both well suited to the short 1.4-mile course, and we managed to run times that were only a second off those typical of a Spec Miata race car. The cars ran nearly identical times, with the Nismo Z beating the S2000 CR by a mere 0.29 second. They managed these times in vastly different ways. The Z understeers considerably more than the CR, most noticeably at turn-in. However, the Z can power away on the straight sections, having an advantage of 3 mph at the end of the back straight, yet the CR catches up at the next corner under braking. The Z rewards late apexing that maximizes corner exit speeds, while the CR is all about momentum and selecting the right gear.

The advantage of light weight clearly goes to the Honda and it shows in the braking and mid-corner speed advantage. They stop about equally quick, but the more stiffly sprung Honda is less pitch-sensitive, so it can brake later and deeper into a corner without upsetting the car's balance. Both cars have mild understeer at the limit, but while the CR's is always manageable, the Z can sometimes get into a terminal push when over-driven. With the gumball tires, power-on oversteer is difficult to achieve in the Z and nearly impossible in the CR. On this tight course the cars are near equals, but on a fast track the Z is sure to out-perform. It's more fun to drive the Honda, but the Nissan is quicker. Life is full of difficult decisions, but I'd opt for the a/c, stereo and extra power that come standard with the Z.

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[Ray_STi]

Good review.. honda seriously needs to up the power on the s2k to some respectable numbers.. (especially TQ)

[Subawhoo]

Originally Posted by Ray_STi

Good review.. honda seriously needs to up the power on the s2k to some respectable numbers.. (especially TQ)

237hp for a factory NA 2 liter motor is more then enough for this generation of hondas. By asking for more torque, Honda would have to lower revs for their performance oriented cars, and that doesn't seem very Honda like

[Ghosthound]

i think the s2k looks way better on the inside and out.

[NismoSkylineGTR]

b4 i read i 'll make my bet on Nismo

and i'll come back after i read the test

[nate49509]

Both cars are overdue for a major overhaul. The Honda more so, hence the special editions.

[GSXR]

Yeah, I had a feeling the 350z would be faster. And the margin would just grow on a larger track. It's hard to overcome an almost 70hp deficit.

[NYCshopper]

Originally Posted by GSXR

Yeah, I had a feeling the 350z would be faster. And the margin would just grow on a larger track. It's hard to overcome an almost 70hp deficit.

dont forget the S2000 weighs alot less

2008 Honda S2000 CR
Curb Weight: 2813 lbs.

vs

2008 Nissan Nismo 350Z
Curb Weight: 3352 lbs.

(info from edmunds.com)

[STi-MAN]

Originally Posted by NYCshopper

dont forget the S2000 weighs alot less

2008 Honda S2000 CR
Curb Weight: 2813 lbs.

vs

2008 Nissan Nismo 350Z
Curb Weight: 3352 lbs.

(info from edmunds.com)

Not between these cars but now days technology has helped heavy set cars to handle better then most would have ever thought...

but back to the subject.

Still between these 2 cars i'd choose the CR.

Also curb weight between the 2 according to road and track is that the
350z nismo weighs in at 3550
s2000 CR at 2750

[shikataganai]

the S2000 is an A Stock car. the 350Z is a second-tier B Stock car. draw your own conclusions.

(personally i think compromising the streetability of what ultimately remains a street car is silly, but that's just me.)

[DeeezNuuuts83]

Originally Posted by NYCshopper

dont forget the S2000 weighs alot less

2008 Honda S2000 CR
Curb Weight: 2813 lbs.

vs

2008 Nissan Nismo 350Z
Curb Weight: 3352 lbs.

(info from edmunds.com)

True, but don't forget the 350Z has a 100+ lb.-ft advantage on top of that ~70 hp advantage over a much broader range, so it's easier to drive fast... and according to the article, it's flat-out faster too.

Too bad, Honda.

[matt30]

Even with all that said I would rather drive the S2000.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

^ True... but I'd rather own a 350Z.

[ExpO]

Cool, turd vs poop, poop wins!

As much as I hate it, I'd rather take the s2k, but only to put a built motor + turbo in it.

[STi-MAN]

Originally Posted by ExpO

Cool, turd vs poop, poop wins!

As much as I hate it, I'd rather take the s2k, but only to put a built motor + turbo in it.

and have it break.. I'd keep it stock motor and work on suspension and have fun at the track.

[ExpO]

Originally Posted by STi-MAN

and have it break.. I'd keep it stock motor and work on suspension and have fun at the track.

Fun.. absence of torque... does not compute.

[zzyzx]

Originally Posted by ExpO

Fun.. absence of torque... does not compute.

Ah, a small block guy. Don't see too many of those around here.

[DeeezNuuuts83]

^ But I don't think ExpO was referring to a tall plateau of muscle car torque, I think he just meant usable torque, which the S2000 really doesn't have. Even the bigger 2.2-liter motor in the more recent S2000s was a pretty lifeless motor until 6000 rpm or so.