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Old 11-14-2007, 09:51 PM   #1
Jhovany
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Default Flat Foot Shifting???

Flat foot shifting is when you step on the clutch then shift gears and instead of lifting your foot up WITH the clutch, you simply just move your foot to the side so you pretty much "pop" the clutch...right or wrong???? I want to learn how to flat foot shift....if someone would shine some light on this subject....I would appreciate it thanx!!!
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:11 PM   #2
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i always thought it was shifting gears at wide open throttle without lifting off the gas pedal. i don't think you ever want to sidestep the clutch in any gear. especially with AWD. all that shock has nowhere to go but your gearbox, but you don't have to worry about your tranny as much with an STi.
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:18 PM   #3
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oh ok.....so what I just described was side stepping the clutch then....oops my bad! Well see this is the reason for this thread........I just got Launch Control with the AP V.2 and when I shift (I have the gas floored at all time) the car jurks....im not shifting very smoothly.....am i suppose to shift very quickly or not too fast?
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:25 PM   #4
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it allows you so shift w/o releasing the gas pedal

The AP feature allows you to set the rev at a certain RPM so it doesnt overrev the engine or loose power. Ultimately its supposed to hold boost up and lower time between shifts. It takes some time getting used to....


http://www.accessecu.com/support/LaunchControl.pdf

Last edited by EJ2point0; 11-14-2007 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:28 PM   #5
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When you flat foot your supposed to shift fast that is the purpose of flat footing, people really only flat foot in like drag racing (that I know of).

I found out the hard way that flat footing is not really the recommended thing to do so now I don't have to worry about it.

Have fun flat footing
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:28 PM   #6
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what you said first sounds to me like power shifting

flat foot shifting is an item/tune where the ECU limits the rpms of the engine when the clutch is depressed so that you do not have to lift the throttle, it can be very hard on the tranny, reason why cobb say something like use at own risk
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:42 PM   #7
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oh ok i understand now thanx guys
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Old 11-14-2007, 10:58 PM   #8
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i dont think it would be a great idea in a awd..
maybe in a fwd tho, thats what they usually call "rips" too
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Old 11-16-2007, 07:21 AM   #9
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flat foot shifting can actually be EASIER on the tranny than traditional lift shifting.

the key is in properly setting your FFS rpm point. once done, you will achieve perfect rpm drops during every shift. in turn that creates much less shock load on the drivetrain once you do let out the clutch.

i make it a point to flat foot shift at least once a day, generally across the 2-3 shift while merging on the highway. i've been ffs-ing since it came out on the utec a couple of years ago.

LAUNCHING the car from a stop is another thing entirely, and imposes HUGE shock/stress loads on the drivetrain. i've certainly done my share of high boost launches but it is not nearly as common as a FFS. original owner, original 5mt gearbox, 60k miles.

hth
ken
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Old 11-16-2007, 09:16 AM   #10
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FFS refers to not lifting off the skinny pedal while shifting.
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Old 11-16-2007, 01:11 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
flat foot shifting can actually be EASIER on the tranny than traditional lift shifting.

the key is in properly setting your FFS rpm point. once done, you will achieve perfect rpm drops during every shift. in turn that creates much less shock load on the drivetrain once you do let out the clutch.

I would agree on that point! It makes sense!
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Old 11-17-2007, 10:53 AM   #12
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i would love to take advantage of this -- but i have the v1.

i know the sti tranny could eat **** all day but i dont abuse it as much as others -- most of the time
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Old 11-17-2007, 11:01 AM   #13
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For those of you who are interested in being able to Flat Foot Shifting, I have come up with a way to allow people to do this with the stock ECU, Which I incorporate into my re-flashes. You can ask quite a few ppl on this forum who's cars I have already set-up with this along with Subielove02 who has actually been in the car with me to witness how smooth and how much faster it is.

If anyone would like this...you can PM me for more deals if you are interested, Check out 555motorsports.net
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Old 11-17-2007, 01:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 555 Motorsports View Post
For those of you who are interested in being able to Flat Foot Shifting, I have come up with a way to allow people to do this with the stock ECU, Which I incorporate into my re-flashes. You can ask quite a few ppl on this forum who's cars I have already set-up with this along with Subielove02 who has actually been in the car with me to witness how smooth and how much faster it is.

If anyone would like this...you can PM me for more deals if you are interested, Check out 555motorsports.net

Tranny issues aside...how does FFS affect your engine? Accelerated wear leading to longevity issues?

Last edited by SurfPine; 11-17-2007 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 11-17-2007, 08:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfPine View Post
Tranny issues aside...how does FFS affect your engine? Accelerated wear leading to longevity issues?
well as far as direct longevity issues if done properly it doesn't have a huge impact on the car. Don't get me wrong i'm not saying it's the best thing you can do for your car. What I am saying is as far as the effect on the motor its not worse than normally drag racing. The best part about FFS is the smoothness between shifts that actaully is better on the drivetrain.. suspension and other various components in those systems
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:27 AM   #16
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The reason you put flat foot shifting on a car isn't for reliability or to baby your drivetrain. The idea with it is so that you can keep boost between shifts. By keeping your foot on the gas through the shift, you keep making boost. When you shift normally and lift your foot off of the gas pedal, the turbo starts to spool down and starts loosing boost, so you have to wait for boost to come back after the shift. With FFS, your engine is being kept at speed, and therefore keeps producing boost throughout the shift.

It does have the added benifit of letting you shift smoother once you get used to it. When you step on the clutch, the car will "redline" at a set point lower than your engine's standard redline (instead of dropping towards idle the entire time you are shifting). This way, when you let back off the clutch, the engine should be close to the right rpm setting for the new gear.

You only really use FFS when shifting at or near redline, so that is added wear on the engine, unless you always do that anyways. Should be less wear on the tranny (and clutch, and drivetrain), because while shifting, the revs will be matched more closely.
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Old 11-18-2007, 01:44 PM   #17
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The main reason I asked about engine longevity in regards to FFS is because of this thread:

STI 07 down in compression

To me it seemed this thread where I am currently posting, Flat Foot Shifting, was heading in a direction where FFS was regarded as better for your car, mainly drivetrain. Of course I am more inclined to know of information dealing with the MY07 USDM STI and suspicions of not enough fuel at high RPMs to handle FFS or launch control. It seems as a protune along with new injectors/pump may solve this problem for the MY07 STI but this is only information I have gathered from reading and paying attention to what others are doing and where others have failed. Since I have owned my STI for over a year now, I am going to start down the bolt-on path. Part of that includes the possibility of an AP but not using an OTS map. I do understand the AP does has an OTS map with LC and FFS and it has peaked my curiosity. But, I do not have enough experience with this hence my question.
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:37 PM   #18
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w/o lifting the accel i thought.
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Old 11-18-2007, 03:44 PM   #19
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Don't expect transmission parts to last long while FFS
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:01 PM   #20
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Flat Foot Shifting is shifting gears without lifting off the throttle. (something that I [myself] did not know before this thread) I do not want to confuse people for my lack of knowledge! ^^^ dude....anything that we do to our cars....DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING TO LAST LONG!!!! LOL
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Old 11-18-2007, 06:23 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfPine View Post
The main reason I asked about engine longevity in regards to FFS is because of this thread:

STI 07 down in compression
to start with there are problems with the stock ECU tune on 07 STis to begin with. Couple that with some of the changes made to design of the block and other components...then take an aggressive re-tune and next thing you know your replacing a motor b/c typically cylinder #3 or #4. There are some extra safeties and compensations I put in my tunes for the 07 STi as a result of this when I tune them. That being said, its all knowing how far you can push the car and how aggressive you can tune it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatzilla18 View Post
Don't expect transmission parts to last long while FFS
actually if done properly it doesnt have any more of a bad effect on the transmission than you would normally aggressively shift in a drag race or spirited driving.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhovany View Post
Flat Foot Shifting is shifting gears without lifting off the throttle. (something that I [myself] did not know before this thread) I do not want to confuse people for my lack of knowledge! ^^^ dude....anything that we do to our cars....DO NOT EXPECT ANYTHING TO LAST LONG!!!! LOL
The problem that actually leads to failures more so isn't the components although they are inherently weaker than they could potentially be in the WRX's. The problem is the drivers. 99% of the ppl that do race and end up breaking their tranny is b/c they dont know how to drive it and simply put, abuse it in the wrong way. I know of many people who are still stock transmission, motor... and running 12's with regular WRXs... its all in how you drive the car.

Me personally Launch the car at 6000+rpm in boost and cut low 1.7's to 1.6 60' on stock tire and suspension, and my transmission has been fine. It's all how you drive it.
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:26 PM   #22
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I cant break a 1.79999 to save my life.
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Old 11-18-2007, 09:58 PM   #23
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wow i never knew my v2 ap had this capability
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Old 11-18-2007, 11:40 PM   #24
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wow i never knew my v2 ap had this capability
The AP is capable of this but as for most of my tuning on stock ECU is done with open source
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:05 PM   #25
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555 I pmed about this flat foot shifting with the stock ecu, im very interested in this
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