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Old 05-21-2008, 11:27 AM   #251
fireball_jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxwhat View Post
You're taking what I said about age out of context. Read the post I was quoting.

You can get in trouble with anything, especially when you're distracted, but I'd never call a 400whp subaru "dangerous" by any stretch of the imagination.
A 50hp Geo is dangerous if you're on the right road. At a 140 mph, any car is dangerous.

AWD + 400 hp = high speeds very quickly. But this all assumes you're driving like a jackass. Yeah, an STi isn't going to step out on you on a Sunday drive, but it's not exactly a good car to let your kids learn how to drive in.
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Old 05-21-2008, 11:41 AM   #252
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At least it's 400whp in a light AWD car.
Safer than 400whp in a light RWD.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:15 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by fireball_jones View Post
A 50hp Geo is dangerous if you're on the right road. At a 140 mph, any car is dangerous.

AWD + 400 hp = high speeds very quickly. But this all assumes you're driving like a jackass. Yeah, an STi isn't going to step out on you on a Sunday drive, but it's not exactly a good car to let your kids learn how to drive in.
I'd let my kids learn to drive in this car.
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Old 05-21-2008, 02:23 PM   #254
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do you have kids? If I had to guess, I'd say no b/c MOST parents wouldn't ever consider that. That's not to say SOME kids wouldn't be able to handle it. There are certainly varying levels of maturity.
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Old 05-21-2008, 03:08 PM   #255
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350whp is getting old quick(only been tuned since last sept) on my way to try and get close to 400whp.
that is all. good day.
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Old 05-21-2008, 03:14 PM   #256
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do you have kids? If I had to guess, I'd say no b/c MOST parents wouldn't ever consider that. That's not to say SOME kids wouldn't be able to handle it. There are certainly varying levels of maturity.
I wouldn't give them this car. I'd let them drive and learn on it though, if they were being supervised by me.
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Old 05-21-2008, 03:53 PM   #257
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I'd let my kids learn to drive in this car.
ill look for them in the obituaries. At 21 i have yet to meet someone my age or younger who has the skill and experience to handle even a stock evo or sti. People with your mindset are few and far between, and thank god for that. Theres plenty of kids in my area who are younger than me and have nicer cars, and many of them have lost control or wrecked. A kid will always be a little angel to his parents, but on the street he is a spoiled punk whose dad lets him take out his 400whp car. I hope you dont have to learn that the hard way, Ive lost a friend to an asshat kid that lost control of his car. Good luck to you and your kids.


OP- thanks for posting up this thread. I joined this forum at 18 or 19, and i go back and read my old posts and cringe, i was one of the 400hp fanbois haha.
It took one ride in a stock sti to wake me up. That still doesnt change the fact that a 07sti trans+gt30+ej207 would be scary fun
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Old 05-21-2008, 06:50 PM   #258
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Originally Posted by wrxsnowstyle View Post
ill look for them in the obituaries. At 21 i have yet to meet someone my age or younger who has the skill and experience to handle even a stock evo or sti. People with your mindset are few and far between, and thank god for that. Theres plenty of kids in my area who are younger than me and have nicer cars, and many of them have lost control or wrecked. A kid will always be a little angel to his parents, but on the street he is a spoiled punk whose dad lets him take out his 400whp car. I hope you dont have to learn that the hard way, Ive lost a friend to an asshat kid that lost control of his car. Good luck to you and your kids.


OP- thanks for posting up this thread. I joined this forum at 18 or 19, and i go back and read my old posts and cringe, i was one of the 400hp fanbois haha.
It took one ride in a stock sti to wake me up. That still doesnt change the fact that a 07sti trans+gt30+ej207 would be scary fun
Read my post above yours.
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Old 05-21-2008, 07:19 PM   #259
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At least it's 400whp in a light AWD car.
Safer than 400whp in a light RWD.
AWD is not going to save you.. I hope you know that.
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Old 05-21-2008, 11:01 PM   #260
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AWD is not going to save you.. I hope you know that.
Whatever this supposed to mean, I do know that, but I've also had fully stripped 400+ whp LS1 cars, so there is a big big difference in overall traction and safety between AWD and RWD. It may not 'save' me, but it makes it at least a little more foolproof.
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:17 AM   #261
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if you don't know how to drive it, it wont be foolproof.
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Old 05-22-2008, 03:56 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by a winner by default View Post
if you don't know how to drive it, it wont be foolproof.
Eh, we're fine on that end.
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Old 05-30-2008, 12:28 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by a winner by default View Post
350whp is getting old quick(only been tuned since last sept) on my way to try and get close to 400whp.
that is all. good day.
But you at least have an idea of what you are getting into. A lot of people buy a 300chp STI, then want to jump directly to closer to 500chp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a winner by default View Post
if you don't know how to drive it, it wont be foolproof.
SO true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hotrod View Post
The whole point of the thread is to let the inexperienced know that big hp numbers come attached with a considerable level or risk and requirement for judgment and responsibility on their part. Unfortunately the people who need to read this thread probably will not, or if they do will assume they are in the 0.5% who are not subject to the laws of physics and think that just because they have 6 months driving experience they can jump in a 400 hp car and be in full control of it from the start.
Larry
Which is why I am also trying to make another big fact of life with a 400whp Subaru clear. The costs. Many inexperienced drivers think they would be fine with 400, even 500whp or more. But, are they willing to spend the money when the motor lets go? Do they know that if they want 400whp reliable, they need to pretty much have 5 figures in their wallet(or CC or whatever) that they are willing to spend. Anyone can convince themselves that they can handle the power, but affording it is a lot more black and white.

Of course you can get there cheaper, but if you take a stock STI, and want 400whp, dont want used parts, and want it to be "reliable (which is a relative term) figure in the costs of pulling the motor out, doing pistons, putting it back in. This will also require several hundred dollars in gaskets/fluids etc. Then the parts themselves, then the initial tune for break in on the new motor, then a solid tune once its broken in. Plus proper gauges.

And if its a WRX, plan on a transmission and clutch.

Not all inexperienced drivers (not just speeking of teenagers) would be the type to feel invincible behind the wheel and that they could drive that car safely while making use of its power. But the reality is that the larger majority would. I know I would have, and I cant think of anyone I knew that would have abused it as well. Most do. Its normal. They may feel they can handle it, but can they afford it. And if they have 34k for the car, and 10k to dump into it, do they want to just go buy a 44k car to begin with? These are all things people should take into consideration.

Last edited by Defiant Autospeed; 05-30-2008 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 05-30-2008, 12:42 PM   #264
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Whatever this supposed to mean, I do know that, but I've also had fully stripped 400+ whp LS1 cars, so there is a big big difference in overall traction and safety between AWD and RWD. It may not 'save' me, but it makes it at least a little more foolproof.

my 309whp WRX=never crashed (until an idiot hit me head on on my 25mph commute to work)
my 330ishwhp 05 STI=never crashed. Never even spun or close to lost it.
my who knows how much whp, but a lot, FXT=never crashed, only spun once at an autocross. (It should however be noted that by the time this FXT was built like that, I had 6 years of high powered subby driving, hundreds of autocrosses, several track days and 17 years driving experience under my belt)



my 225whp miata=spun 10 times easily in a handful of autocross events
spun 3 times on the street (the first 2 times were when I first got it and wasnt used to a tail happy RWD. Early throttle=massive oversteer. oops.)
Last spin was into a hedge. That time was me being stupif on an emtpy road.

Its definately a little more foolproof. Not invincible though.
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Old 05-30-2008, 01:09 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by wrxwhat View Post
From personal experience, I've never driven a car that I haven't felt I could handle.
You sir, are walking a VERY dangerous line with statements like this.

When I was into motorcycles, I heard this all the time at the track. "Well, this bike isnt outside my skill range, I can handle it." Those people, despite what they said, couldnt handle it. You know the term for those people around the track? Organ donors.

Bottom line here is youre NEVER in complete control. I dont care what youre driving, hence the entire point of this thread. Higher HP=things go wrong in a bigger hurry. There are far too many variables outside your control. In my experience, the people who got comfortable behind the wheel and started making statements like "I can handle it" found themselves badly injured or dead pretty quickly.
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Old 05-30-2008, 11:49 PM   #266
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By no means is it invincible. I've felt the tires let go at extreme conditions and admit I was taken by surprise, but then I learned the limits of stock tires on stock suspension and still realize that those limits are beyond those of most RWD cars.

I've had RWD cars that handle very well even in bad conditions (GTO), some that are so-so (Camaro), and some that would step out when you least expected it (Mustang GT). My preference and the one most suited to keeping me safe given my driving style and attitude is my beloved Subaru.

And speaking of a WRX wanting to upgrade to 400whp, I just got new gears (MFactory) and a new Exedy clutch done. Also got the STi shifter/Kartboy bushings. Whole new car....I'm not shooting for quite that much power, but it should potentially handle it a lot better than possible before. Once again not invincible.
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Old 05-31-2008, 01:47 AM   #267
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being 21 i feel im probably one of the youngsters here, and my 14 STi, (bout 300whp) handles much better than any car i've ever driven, at the same time i've had it 3monts and still am afraid of cracking 100, not that i don't think i can its just i know that there are many things that can go wrong. having raced go carts when was younger i found that even at 35mph things can get bad(i got spun in a CHARITY event!!! and was ejected from my cart, only scratched up on hands and legs no breaks) but this shows how dangerous motor vehicles can be.
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:30 AM   #268
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Read my post above yours.
i read, and i apologize for criticizing you and your parenting methods. i wish my dad would let me drive his M3 sometimes
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Old 06-08-2008, 03:50 AM   #269
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wow! this was a very informative post. thank you soo much! especially for all the scenarios. Puts things into perspective. even though my goal is around the 300-310 range. is this a sticky? cuz honestly this could prob save some random teenagers life.
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Old 06-08-2008, 12:54 PM   #270
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We all have been there and most of us have scared the crap out of ourselves enough to realize we are in fact subject to the laws of physics. We also in most cases learned that even in a 36 hp Volkswagen over application of throttle accompanied with disengaged brain can result in a trip through the weeds, or in the case of a friend of mine a trip through the open sun roof as he rolled it and a one way trip to the cemetery.

Larry
HAHA Larry that one reads true to me when I was 16 in my 95 Jetta, thought I was hot ****, learned alot of good lessons that year.
-Tom
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Old 06-08-2008, 03:53 PM   #271
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im not a 400hp fanboi

i dont even know what to do with my wrx

i could leave it stock its whole life and im happy with what i have
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Old 08-11-2008, 07:43 PM   #272
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that was one of the best posts i have read W2G
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Old 08-11-2008, 08:02 PM   #273
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I'll tell you if I'm sure @ 350whp.
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Old 08-11-2008, 09:44 PM   #274
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It should also be said that its not always the driver error that kills you.
400+ whp can break parts AND at the worst possible moment. Shear a gear, throw a rod, grenade a clutch, destroy a brake hat and lock up the wheel into a concrete post...the list goes on.
I had a VW Jetta GLi blue printed 2.0 twin cam and in a race I popped a line on my high flow fuel pump and sprayed gas all over the hot muffler and the car burned in under 2 mins.

My point is that the Universe is indifferent about Your skills; high power, high risk.
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Old 10-09-2008, 02:32 PM   #275
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Bump because this has come up a lot lately.
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