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Old 04-03-2008, 01:29 PM   #151
zeropsi
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Brilliant! Well-needed too I think.

Coming from a 385rwhp 06 GTO, I was amazed at how fast my WRX felt when I got a Stage 2-ish dyno tune. It's only 240/295 @ the wheels, but power goes FAR in these cars. I was all hellbent on a 20g until I looked around and realized a good STi turbo setup can go a long way too.
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:21 PM   #152
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If you are happy at the moment, go past the VF39 and do a Blouch TD05-18G 8cm. Its on sale if you order it direct from Blouch. At 989 its a STEAL, I cant even get it that cheap (unless I call and order it myself, in which case, it costs me, 989 ) It will likely keep you happy for a very long time, If you are happy at stage 2, I cant see you NEEDING a 20G.

I have driven that turbo on my 2.5L subby (FXT, your WRX would be similar) and its INCREDIBLE. No creep, no lag, in fact faster response than the VF39, FAR better top end as well. More power everywhere. The VF39 is simply too small. You get a peaky unsmooth, just generally immature boy racer type powerband with the VF39/43 or a 16G. The 18G feels so refined, just strong smooth power from low end to redline.
With an 18G you want to be sure to get one with the large compressor housing. This is the reason I suggest the Blouch. 1. its a steal at the price. 2. It has the correct housing 3. Its an 8cm hot side, more TQ, no creep. Others can build you one, but they will be FAR more expensive.

And you can use your stock injectors if you do a pump and dont go past about 18PSI. (since you have an 07 with the dark blue top feeds)
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:26 PM   #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant Autospeed View Post
If you are happy at the moment, go past the VF39 and do a Blouch TD05-18G 8cm. Its on sale if you order it direct from Blouch. At 989 its a STEAL, I cant even get it that cheap (unless I call and order it myself, in which case, it costs me, 989 ) It will likely keep you happy for a very long time, If you are happy at stage 2, I cant see you NEEDING a 20G.

I have driven that turbo on my 2.5L subby (FXT, your WRX would be similar) and its INCREDIBLE. No creep, no lag, in fact faster response than the VF39, FAR better top end as well. More power everywhere. The VF39 is simply too small. You get a peaky unsmooth, just generally immature boy racer type powerband with the VF39/43 or a 16G. The 18G feels so refined, just strong smooth power from low end to redline.
With an 18G you want to be sure to get one with the large compressor housing. This is the reason I suggest the Blouch. 1. its a steal at the price. 2. It has the correct housing 3. Its an 8cm hot side, more TQ, no creep. Others can build you one, but they will be FAR more expensive.

And you can use your stock injectors if you do a pump and dont go past about 18PSI. (since you have an 07 with the dark blue top feeds)
I was considering the VF48 off the 08 STi, mainly because I've seen some killer numbers from it so far. 18G still way better? I'll end up doing injectors too because I don't want to have to worry about being right on the upper edge of the threshold. It's my daily driver, so I'm not going to go crazy, but I want the full potential.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:22 PM   #154
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My last WRX had 320whp and 348wtq on a Mustang dyno at 23psi.

It was TD06 20g
APS manifold
APS turbo inlet
750cc injectors
FMIC
etc

No TGV deletes, no manifold spacers, no meth.


I am going to try

TD06 20g
Tial 44mm EWG
Aquamist HFS-5 meth injection
PnP stock manifold
Ultimate Racing UP kit
850cc injectors
TGV deletes
Manifold spacers
etc.

Think I'll make it on Mustang dyno? The motor is a fresh stock STi motor.

The idea with messing around with the VF43 crossed my mind, but I'd rather sell it for more with very low miles (4k or so).

I enjoy driving a high hp level car, it's fun as hell on the road course with the right suspension setup...
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:01 PM   #155
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I was struck by your comments about finding a good tuner. This can be so critical. I remember when I was asking about a tuner for my SR20, and everyone had a different "guy" who can "tune".

My question is...what defines a "good" tuner?

How can you tell? Should I take a ride in one of his tuned cars? Ask around as see how many motors have popped on his tune?

[Edit] I just found the PDF posted in this thread...

Last edited by Mystery Machine; 04-03-2008 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 04-03-2008, 06:13 PM   #156
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make sticky! great post
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:23 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant Autospeed View Post
I am building a 400+whp motor for my daily driver.
What happened to the motor mang?

And, I will add something of interest to this thread, especially after tuning a STI swapped GC8 this week with a 20g, EWG, meth, etc etc:

98% of people here are not ready for that kind of power. 98% of people here cant handle that kind of power. Ive done numerous track days, autoX days etc, and honestly, a 4th gear pull scared the **** out of even me. With my tune on meth, I would put this car at a solid 350whp, but consider this. It weighs roughly 500lbs less than a WRX (it had a stripped/caged interior). Would I drive something like that daily? HELL no. The EWG would drive me nuts. Do I need that kind of power? HELL no. Sure, it would be fun, and I could have some fun with it at the track, but its not for me.

Honestly, I think anyone that says "I want 400whp" or even "350whp" needs to consider two things:
1. Whats your level of experience? Not, "Oh, Ive had my drivers license 5 years", but more like "Oh, Ive done 45 track days over the past 4 years".
2. What are your goals for the car? This car was, for all intents and purposes, practically "undriveable" on the street. Did I drive it? Sure. Was it fun in bumper-to-bumper traffic? Absolutely not.
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Old 04-04-2008, 12:40 AM   #158
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good post.. makes me think twice about going that high.. although i would eventually like to get 300whp nice to know pro and cons about mods
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:41 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyBlaze420 View Post
So would anyone recomend teins for everyday use?
Check out Bilsteins if you can afford them. It's what almost every Prodrive suspension package has used.

I DD a 2.2L, going from that to a stock 2.5RS is a difference of about 25chp. I highly recommend it, whenever I think the 2.5RS needs a STi swap I drive the L for a while and then switch back.

I had a stage 2 WRX before, and the more power you add, the more you notice the shortcomings of the car. The 5-speed was not enjoyable to drive, the suspension is a awesome, stock, for plowing down dirt roads, but requires a huge compromise between comfort and handling once you want to go faster. Drive a well sorted car like a Miata, RX-8 or a Mini and you realize when the car is designed around being fun to drive, there's a lot less desire to crank up the horsepower. Would I like an RSTi? Sure, but for 99.9% of the driving I do, the stock RS would be just as fast.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:15 AM   #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireball_jones View Post
Check out Bilsteins if you can afford them. It's what almost every Prodrive suspension package has used.

I DD a 2.2L, going from that to a stock 2.5RS is a difference of about 25chp. I highly recommend it, whenever I think the 2.5RS needs a STi swap I drive the L for a while and then switch back.

I had a stage 2 WRX before, and the more power you add, the more you notice the shortcomings of the car. The 5-speed was not enjoyable to drive, the suspension is a awesome, stock, for plowing down dirt roads, but requires a huge compromise between comfort and handling once you want to go faster. Drive a well sorted car like a Miata, RX-8 or a Mini and you realize when the car is designed around being fun to drive, there's a lot less desire to crank up the horsepower. Would I like an RSTi? Sure, but for 99.9% of the driving I do, the stock RS would be just as fast.
I can't really agree about any of the statements with the Stage 2 WRX. 5-speed still feels just fine for me, and I don't see any suspension issues with more power and new springs being put in. To each his own.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:48 AM   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zer0psi View Post
I was considering the VF48 off the 08 STi, mainly because I've seen some killer numbers from it so far. 18G still way better? I'll end up doing injectors too because I don't want to have to worry about being right on the upper edge of the threshold. It's my daily driver, so I'm not going to go crazy, but I want the full potential.
Its very likely that its just like the situation with the 07 STI. The VF43 doesnt actually make any more power than the 39, its the motor. I suspect that the killer numbers from the 08 STI are coming from the motor and that any turbo on that motor would make larger than normal numbers.

So yes, the 18G is still that killer. IHI turbos are junk comparatively speaking.
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Old 04-04-2008, 10:55 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWD>FWD View Post
My last WRX had 320whp and 348wtq on a Mustang dyno at 23psi.

It was TD06 20g
APS manifold
APS turbo inlet
750cc injectors
FMIC
etc

No TGV deletes, no manifold spacers, no meth.


I am going to try

TD06 20g
Tial 44mm EWG
Aquamist HFS-5 meth injection
PnP stock manifold
Ultimate Racing UP kit
850cc injectors
TGV deletes
Manifold spacers
etc.

Think I'll make it on Mustang dyno? The motor is a fresh stock STi motor.

The idea with messing around with the VF43 crossed my mind, but I'd rather sell it for more with very low miles (4k or so).

I enjoy driving a high hp level car, it's fun as hell on the road course with the right suspension setup...
Looks like a nice streetable setup. The only IF there is what the clutch will be like. I forgot to look what car you have, if its an STI a stage 1 clutch should hold it fine so you should be fine and it should be fine on the street.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post
What happened to the motor mang?

Popped cyl 4

And, I will add something of interest to this thread, especially after tuning a STI swapped GC8 this week with a 20g, EWG, meth, etc etc:

98% of people here are not ready for that kind of power. 98% of people here cant handle that kind of power. Ive done numerous track days, autoX days etc, and honestly, a 4th gear pull scared the **** out of even me. With my tune on meth, I would put this car at a solid 350whp, but consider this. It weighs roughly 500lbs less than a WRX (it had a stripped/caged interior). Would I drive something like that daily? HELL no. The EWG would drive me nuts. Do I need that kind of power? HELL no. Sure, it would be fun, and I could have some fun with it at the track, but its not for me.

I drove one like that. Effing intense. Like you said, 98% of people couldnt handle a car like that.

Honestly, I think anyone that says "I want 400whp" or even "350whp" needs to consider two things:
1. Whats your level of experience? Not, "Oh, Ive had my drivers license 5 years", but more like "Oh, Ive done 45 track days over the past 4 years".
Exactly, if not, then at least 2-3 seasons of autocross at a minimum.
2. What are your goals for the car? This car was, for all intents and purposes, practically "undriveable" on the street. Did I drive it? Sure. Was it fun in bumper-to-bumper traffic? Absolutely not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurikaze View Post
good post.. makes me think twice about going that high.. although i would eventually like to get 300whp nice to know pro and cons about mods
300whp is an EXCELLENT daily driver power level in an STI or WRX. Up to about 320whp or so is great.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:22 AM   #163
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I naturally want to save my tranny which shouldn't be hard because I know how to and how not to drive my car, since it's my DD; however, I'm thinking, in terms of dynojet numbers, I'd like to have 330-350whp. 18g still or 20?
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Old 04-04-2008, 01:42 PM   #164
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Persinaly I think that 90% of the people looking for big power would be happy with a VF39 or 18g supporting mods and a good tune.

That would be over 300Awhp on most dynos.

Later.
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Old 04-04-2008, 02:46 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittypac View Post
make sticky! great post
+123456789
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Old 04-04-2008, 04:40 PM   #166
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Heck after this I think I am only wanting like 300whp max. My stock 08 WRX is the first AWD performance car I have driven and at the stock power right now it takes some getting use to. Waiting to upgrade till I have the suspension and brakes done. Good post +1 for sticky.
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Old 04-04-2008, 06:12 PM   #167
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great post, +2 for sticky!
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Old 04-04-2008, 08:34 PM   #168
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Bump for a great write up.

Alot of horsepower/tq is what these cars are capable of, which is odd in a import world lol. Torque is a fun/scary thing. My parents both own a c6 z51 and a c6 z06. Ive driven the stock ls2 c6, an wow. Its alot. My stepdad showed me a lesson in hp when he let me romp on it at 30 on a open road with dummy controlls off. I got the car sideways and smoking the tires. I had it under ok control, but it was my first time really experiencing something like this. Really makes you rethink what kind of controllable power you can have for every day driving.


Cause soon after I romped it to 140+ pretty damn quick lol.


Again, great write up. Im lookin for a nice flat 300ish when Im all said an done. But for now, stage 1 is fantastical!
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Old 04-04-2008, 09:13 PM   #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cucamelsmd15 View Post
What happened to the motor mang?

And, I will add something of interest to this thread, especially after tuning a STI swapped GC8 this week with a 20g, EWG, meth, etc etc:

98% of people here are not ready for that kind of power. 98% of people here cant handle that kind of power. Ive done numerous track days, autoX days etc, and honestly, a 4th gear pull scared the **** out of even me. With my tune on meth, I would put this car at a solid 350whp, but consider this. It weighs roughly 500lbs less than a WRX (it had a stripped/caged interior). Would I drive something like that daily? HELL no. The EWG would drive me nuts. Do I need that kind of power? HELL no. Sure, it would be fun, and I could have some fun with it at the track, but its not for me.

Honestly, I think anyone that says "I want 400whp" or even "350whp" needs to consider two things:
1. Whats your level of experience? Not, "Oh, Ive had my drivers license 5 years", but more like "Oh, Ive done 45 track days over the past 4 years".
2. What are your goals for the car? This car was, for all intents and purposes, practically "undriveable" on the street. Did I drive it? Sure. Was it fun in bumper-to-bumper traffic? Absolutely not.
Sorry but 5 yrs LOL. Ive been driving for 24yrs and have issues when it comes to speed.
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Old 04-04-2008, 11:32 PM   #170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RexTexWagon View Post
Bump for a great write up.

Alot of horsepower/tq is what these cars are capable of, which is odd in a import world lol. Torque is a fun/scary thing. My parents both own a c6 z51 and a c6 z06. Ive driven the stock ls2 c6, an wow. Its alot. My stepdad showed me a lesson in hp when he let me romp on it at 30 on a open road with dummy controlls off. I got the car sideways and smoking the tires. I had it under ok control, but it was my first time really experiencing something like this. Really makes you rethink what kind of controllable power you can have for every day driving.


Cause soon after I romped it to 140+ pretty damn quick lol.


Again, great write up. Im lookin for a nice flat 300ish when Im all said an done. But for now, stage 1 is fantastical!
My other car is an '06 GTO with the very same LS2. Bone stock it put down 360rwtq @ the wheels. I was fun at the right moments.
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Old 04-05-2008, 12:18 PM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zer0psi View Post
I naturally want to save my tranny which shouldn't be hard because I know how to and how not to drive my car, since it's my DD; however, I'm thinking, in terms of dynojet numbers, I'd like to have 330-350whp. 18g still or 20?


You were asking about 300-350whp and vf39 vs 18G.

I can tell you 100% without a doubt that you want the 18G. The VF39 is simply too small for the 2.5L motor. You would have the same sort of problem with a 16G as well.

Basically you know that WHAM of power then bleh that the subbies tend to have? The burst that makes it tough to drive them smoothly (helps on a date or with wife in car if you can drive it smoothly easier). Well that is due to the turbo surging caused by it being physically too small.
This is why you want at least an 18G. But not just any 18G. You likely want fast spool as thats what most people not shooting for big hp numbers want, and you likely want more top end as well. SO, you want a TD05-18G 8cm. The TD05 hot side will spool and respond a good bit faster than the TD06 would, and honestly, faster than the even smaller P18 hot side on the VF39. The reason for this is that IHI turbos are a very inefficient (sp?) design both in the housings and wheel design.

In addition to the TD05 hot side wheel, the 8cm hot side housing keeps creep away, and lets the motor breath a good bit easier, this does NOT affect spool, if anything since it allows the wheel to work more efficiently, it would help low end power. It also brings a good chunk of TQ with it, and its TQ over the entire powerband. Then moving on to the cold side, you want to make sure you get an 18G that has the properly sized compressor housing. Some manufacturers are using the small compressor housing in order to save money and sell cheaper turbos. This is a bad move at best when it comes to performance, as its simply physically too small to allow the 18G compressor wheel to function at its full efficiency. Bottom line is it does not, and can not perform the same.

Open the hood of an EVO some time, the factory turbo is a 16G and look at how large the compressor housing is. The small compressor housing is technically too small even for a 16G, but it still works well with the 16G, as its not a huge mismatch. The 18G, while it will work in the smaller housing, doesnt work well. Anyone telling you otherwise has either never driven both styles back to back or tuned them, or is trying to sell you a small compressor 18G.


What do you get from this turbo?
Power comes on just as early as the 16G, believe it or not. Sure it will make slightly less boost at a given low RPM range, but it flows a good bit more air. This means it will make just as much power, even at lower boost.
Midrange it walks past the 16G with ease, and where a 16G (or vf39) will sharply fall on its face at about 5000rpm, the 18G will pull smoothly to redline, tapering gradually, but leaving you with useable power all the way out. Rolling down the highway in 5th gear at 65mph, I could roll on the gas and it pulled like the 39 and 16G did in 4th or even really, 3rd.


But, where can you get a large compressor housing TD05-18G 8cm? Well Deadbolt can build you one, but he charges $$$$ for the 8cm upgrade and usually doesnt use the large compressor housing, which will cost you $$$ to upgrade to it.

Blouch on the other hand has a KILLER deal going on right now, if you order it direct from them, its 989+shipping. (I cant sell it to you for that price, its only if you get it direct from them). It comes with the correct housings, its 8cm, and its ported/polished standard, no additional cost.

I had this turbo, I can assure you it is positively the absolute most street friendly turbo you can get (that build, it would be the same if you got it from deadbolt or whoever, but they would be a lot more expensive).

I have a 2007 Forester XT, which has the same engine as your WRX, it came stock with the same turbo as your WRX. I have had the TD04, then a VF39, then a TD05-16G 7cm, then the TD05-18G 8cm, then a TD05-20G 8cm on this vehicle, and as soon as I put my built motor in, it will have a rotated GT30R. Of all the turbos, if I was to have a pure daily driver, I would stick with the 18G without a doubt. The 20G was nice, but it definately had less low end and slower response than the 18G. The 18g didnt feel like it lost power anywhere on the low end.

Actually, comparing the stock powerband (all stock, no mods at all) to the TD05-18G 8cm, + turboback + STI TMIC and UTEC tune, the 18G had more bottom end power.

What about motor longevity?
Well the good news is that although the 18G can make more power, you dont HAVE to make more power. You can run 2PSI less boost (approx) on the 18G than on the VF39 or 16G, and make the same power. This means that the turbo is working more efficiently, which means a cooler, denser air charge. More power per PSI, this means less chance of detonation, and det is the number one killer of our motors. A cooler air charge also means cooler EGTs (even if only by a little)


You also say you are concerned with your transmission. The thing that breaks our transmissions is shock loading, not HP (to a point anyway). There are a BUNCH of guys that have put down over 400whp on the stock 06-07 transmission. Its got different gears than the 02-05 and its been proving itself to be a good bit stronger. The smoother powerband will also help keep the power transfer into the transmission smoother, which is again, good for not breaking things.
Of course, bad driving can break them. People break them bone stock. It comes down to bad driving if you break it anywhere under @350whp.


So do the TD05-18G 8cm, do a turboback, do a pump, do an upgraded TMIC, and tune the thing well. Run about 17-18PSI, tapering to @15-16PSI and you shouldnt need injectors (the 07 has fairly big injectors bone stock, but you will need a pump). This will get you a great powerband, far more "mature" feeling than the smaller turbos, not the boy racer feeling (dont mistake that for not being faster!) I compare it to a 400HP modified BMW 3 series, to a 400hp M3. Its that much better. It feels factory(the way factory SHOULD feel, not like it does), just a lot more of it.

Get it from Blouch
http://www.blouchturbo.com/turbos/Subaru_TD05H-18G_8cm2
I cant sell it to you at that price, so call them direct.
tune it, do the other mods I listed, call it a day. Enjoy your car.




Lastly, as far as your 300-350whp goals, please realize that making these numbers is going to be HUGELY dependant on the dyno you are on. The local dyno to me takes a TD06-20G 8cm, at 22+PSI, with a FMIC, tuned hard to hit 300whp. Its that low reading. On an "average" dyno you will be in the 330-340whp range at the very conservative boost numbers I mentioned, but with a huge powerband you will be a lot faster than you would expect from 330-340whp. Its truely an incredible street/day to day setup, and with good driving will net you mid 12s easily at the strip, while retaining great autocross capabilities.

Last edited by Defiant Autospeed; 04-05-2008 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 04-05-2008, 12:43 PM   #172
Granite
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I think this was an excellent thread that gives some really practical advice to those who have said the same " i want to get 400bhp" words.. those like me.. lol

i would definitely come here again and again to read up.

Cant emphasize enough the importance of knowing one's driving limits and taking things one step at a time. From my own experience, jumping from a 160bhp Acura to a 280bhp STi was a huge jump but because it was such a gap in performance, it made me realise that the most important thing was to get used to the car first, know its limits, learn to stop fast before you try to go fast, and when you think you are confident enough, think through again and give yourself more time. Lots of applications here apply also in the flying world but i wont go there. Personally i believe knowing your own character plays a big part in driving responsibly.

Basically, i really appreciate practical advice like these. It's not worth risking a long life ahead for a moment's thrill. Take it slow as there's so much more time in life.
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Old 04-05-2008, 12:56 PM   #173
WRXVOL
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Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Va Beach
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Defiant Autospeed,

I owned my stock 2005 WRX Wagon for about 3 years and 37k miles before I did anything to it. Now I am very happy with:
TURBO XS TMIC
TURBO XS Exhaust Down Pipe
TURBO XS Up pipe
TURBO XS Cat pipe
TURBO XS Racing Bypass Valve
TURBO XS Delta-001V2 UTEC Engine Mgmt
TURBO XS Map Selector Switch
H&R OE Sport Springs
EIBACH Camber Correction Kit
DC SPORTS Front Strut Tower Bar
OZ RACING CHRONO 17X8 Silver Sport Alloy Wheels
KUMHO ECSTA ASX 235/40/17
GORILLA 12x1.25 Chrome Lug Nuts
BREMBO Front Rotors

PRO-TUNE by ALL ASPECTS MOTORSPORT/KIENAN WEBER
AWHP-230; Torque-226; Boost-17.11

MEMPHIS AMP MCA2004
MEMPHIS AMP MCD500
MEMPHIS SUBWOOFER PR10D4
MEMPHIS SPEAKERS MC6
MEMPHIS COMPONENT SPEAKERS MSQ6
ECLIPSE CD RECEIVER CD3100
APPLE IPOD 80GB

I'm probably older then most who drive WRX/STIs...this is hands-down the most fun I've ever had driving. I get up at 0500 to go to work...and I look forward to it just to drive my ride!

One request--Can anyone give me some advice on upgrading my headlights/foglights to HDI?

thanks!
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Old 04-05-2008, 01:05 PM   #174
Defiant Autospeed
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Location: Austin/Beverly 2 of us now!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXVOL View Post
One request--Can anyone give me some advice on upgrading my headlights/foglights to HDI?

thanks!
I dont know a whole lot about it, hit up the Electrical&Lighting forum and ask those guys
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Old 04-11-2008, 09:34 AM   #175
juanmedina
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07 FPgreen 7.37@95
WRX VF39+E85 12.0, 121mph

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I love this thread

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