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Old 01-24-2002, 10:25 PM   #1
azt
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Default STi Magazine Reviews

Read the whole review in the latest "CAR" magazine (Feb 2002 edition).
But the interesting bit is the last paragraph:

"....but and there has to be a but, the Evo VII still gives you a touch more involvement and feels like a quicker, edgier car. And while it can't match the STi in all departments doesn't give a complete accounting of what it takes to be a supercar for everyman, it still has the driving edge! When it comes to the final totting up, the STi only satisfies a need that it created for itself..."

This being the summation of a rather lengthy 3 page article detailing 3 days of testing. (Recommend you get the mag and read it)


Latest "AUTOCAR" magazine - I didn't buy the mag, but they did say that they would choose the EVO VII over the STi anyday for driveability but they say that the STi may be the more livable car - albeit at the cost of poorer performace - a trade-off of sorts.

It seems the latest "EVO" magazine has a review of the STi too but I couldn't find it anywhere.

So far all the mags I have read (british mags) have given the EVO the nod over the STi - and it is only the most recent AUTOCAR article that gives the Scooby the edge in "livability".

Debate on.....................

(Maybe the others can post conclusions from reviews they have read - a reference resource of sorts - lets see what the overall consensus of the auto-reviewer gurus is)
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Old 01-25-2002, 07:06 AM   #2
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When I was in Australia I picked up some car mags and they said very much the same thing. I believe the name of the mag was wheels or something to that liking. They loved the speed and all out adrenaline rush of the EVO but the STI was still very quick and much more refined. I know I can only afford one car so I would have to go with STI being the more "livable" car.
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Old 01-25-2002, 08:14 AM   #3
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I think you are looking at a very Camaro vs. Mustang discussion. The Camaro by all estimates was a faster car. Faster in a straight line, faster around corners. So by the magazine numbers, and by the reviews, it should have just hammered the Mustang in sales. But the Mustang outsold it, in great numbers, because it was viewed as a more "sensible" pony car.

And personally, I would buy the Mustang before the Camaro also. Just as I would buy an STI before an Evo. Because it is more sensible. The Evo is too loudly styled, it's gas tank is too small, it's interior too cheap.

And because the truth is that there are very, very few people that could actually be on a track and need the 10th's of a second difference in racing to choose one of these cars over the other. And even then, certain fast drivers will be faster in one car than the other.

If it really bugs you that an Evo will be faster than an STI, then you can be comforted by the fact that the STI RA type C was faster than the Evo around the track, by like a 10th of a second, literally. But I can guarantee that someday, there will be a release of a special edition Evo that can beat the STI. And then a Version 8 STI that can beat that special edition Evo. And then... you get the picture.

It may be new for people in America, but in Japan, there's a reason we are at Version VII Evo and Version VII STI.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
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Old 01-25-2002, 01:16 PM   #4
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"livability" is kinda a broad word - does it mean the interior (of course STi wins), ride, handling?? what? And the fact that only one out of the 4 reviews on both cars has given that edge to the STi means that it is rather subjective at best.

Its also a pity that there has to be a trade-off between the two - I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.

Oh well like the previous poster said there will always be another version of both cars that is better.

p.s. I disagree with the "tenth of a second" comments though - a few weeks ago I posted verbatim results from the June issue of AUTOCAR that showed clearly the Subaru being creamed by a susbtantial amount. (Take a look at my previous posts).
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Old 01-25-2002, 02:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma
If it really bugs you that an Evo will be faster than an STI, then you can be comforted by the fact that the STI RA type C was faster than the Evo around the track, by like a 10th of a second, literally.
and will indeed get this car, because it shares my name

Is anyone else tired of this STi vs EVO thing?
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Old 01-25-2002, 02:35 PM   #6
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Anyone see the Topgear video comparison of the STi and the EVO? They gave the nod to the STi.
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Old 01-25-2002, 06:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by azt
p.s. I disagree with the "tenth of a second" comments though - a few weeks ago I posted verbatim results from the June issue of AUTOCAR that showed clearly the Subaru being creamed by a susbtantial amount. (Take a look at my previous posts).
azt, I'm in Japan. I've driven both. I've been in events with Impreza's vs. Evo's, and the driver difference was measured in seconds, not tenths. And it didn't favor the Evo.

And yes, the Type C, with professional drivers from magazines, pipped the Evo by a tenth of a second.

I respect Autocar, but I also respect the Japanese publications that treat these cars not as imports, but as domestic models that have faced off for 8 years now. And the difference between the two isn't even as great as the Camaro vs. Mustang difference - it's close enough that it is easily determined by the better driver.

Paul Hansen
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Old 01-26-2002, 12:27 AM   #8
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This whole Evo vs. Sti thing has always been getting me. While the cars are a lot alike I still have trouble comparing the two. Not to say the Evo is a bad car, I would love to own one, but since I joined the i-club us subaru owners have always been kinda different. While the tightly wound community has dispersed a bit, there are still people here that i would consider true "subaru fans" per se. I'll bring up another post where someone in Japan was talking about how the cars race and who stacks up to who and he said "Subaru's are in an entirely different class, they stick together, and aren't really into the drag racing scene" Subaru fans have always seemed different to me and this statement really brought me to a conclusion on this matter. Back in the good ol days, this board didn't have a single comparison come up. Sure everyonce in a while some brand new member would ask if a 2.5RS was faster than a Si or something like that, but the usual response was rather unemotional to those types of questions, most of us simply didn't care all that much, no we didn't think our subaru's were slow but we didn't really compare them and you know why? Because we were subaru fans damnit! These things didn't matter to us, there was just something about the car that made us happy to own and cherish our cars, of course there were faster cars, but were their owners as emotionally attached to there cars as we were (are)? While I don't know the absolute answer to that question I have a pretty good idea. Subaru fans have always been true subaru fans because we are true car enthusiasts, we (for the most part) respect each car for it's own purpose, and subaru's are the cars we felt best suited us. Not because we think it's the ultimate car and the best car to ride all four wheels on the pavement, but because there was just something about the car that made us love seeing it in our driveway everyday. Whatever happened to the true car enthusiast anyway? All I ever see is people constantly searching in vain for a car better than any other car.
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Old 01-26-2002, 02:30 AM   #9
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^ Excellent post
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Old 01-26-2002, 06:21 AM   #10
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Jeff 2.5RS-amen brother! Though I'm still a newbie, I can definitely feel the love here. Our board is different from other car boards. For the most part, people here are sensible, intelligent, and friendly. And I also gotta say we each have a bit of the underdog in us You would make a good motivational speaker for Subaru heh
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Old 01-26-2002, 10:38 AM   #11
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... good post ... for us to stay true to a pure enthusiasm ... comparisons are interesting as long as they don't get in the way of enjoying the car you own and drive ...

GoodFinder
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Old 01-26-2002, 10:59 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma


azt, I'm in Japan. I've driven both. I've been in events with Impreza's vs. Evo's, and the driver difference was measured in seconds, not tenths. And it didn't favor the Evo.

And yes, the Type C, with professional drivers from magazines, pipped the Evo by a tenth of a second.

I respect Autocar, but I also respect the Japanese publications that treat these cars not as imports, but as domestic models that have faced off for 8 years now. And the difference between the two isn't even as great as the Camaro vs. Mustang difference - it's close enough that it is easily determined by the better driver.

Paul Hansen
It's all true. I agree 100%

The only thing I've seen the EVO do better than the Sti is drag racing. I saw a EVO 4 run 10.4's all day on street legal drag tires and the Impreza was in the low 11's. The best part was the guy in the EVO drove his car home after the race.
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Old 01-26-2002, 12:25 PM   #13
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Betty driver is differently a factor however, ever since Evo 5 debut, the STI can never win in tract competition. It is not until this year that the Spec C came out and think about it, the spec C is pretty much a prepped racecar. "Thinning roof panel, boot lid and windows, and by ditching equipment such as airbags (good luck!)". Pretty much make the Spec C a "non-everyday drivers car". So in my perspective you can't really compare these two cars, one is a streetcar the other is a racecar. The fact is the computer aid really make traditionally under steer AWD type vehicle into a neutral handling one is what makes the Evo better than the STI. Maybe one day when Subaru uses a more computer controlled system that the Subaru will edge out.
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Old 01-27-2002, 10:25 PM   #14
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Wink mis-info...

Wow - so what is the Evo RS (the one that does most of those amazing times at tracks)?

It has: lightweight panels, no safety equipment etc - but note, the Spec C is the ONLY Impreza that has those features (or hasn't got them depending on your POV)...even in std form the Evo has a puny gas tank, non-rain friendly rubber, etc.

IMHO, the STI is the more honest of the cars for the real world - maybe not as devastatingly fast in certain circumstances than an Evo, but very fast indeed.

The owner who must show the bigger...err...u know what... will take the gizmo laden Evo. Someone who looks at the whole package and really knows their stuff will have a tough time picking from them I bet.

Cheers.
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Old 01-28-2002, 01:06 AM   #15
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Thumbs down

I have been through this argument before with a different crowd. I previously owned a 95 Z28 and still own a 68 Z28. With the classic car crowd people are generally agreed that all the cars from that era are cool, and there isn't much argument. With the newer camaro though it was a disaster. and here is my problem with it. THe Camaro guys all argue that they have the better car because all the tests say it's faster. The Mustang guys however say that their car is built better, is more daily freindly, as previously posted. They say that they'll hardly ever use all that power and that it's only a miniscule difference anyway. This is where my problem is. If you really didn't care about your car being fast and if you are never going to use it then why buy it. It sure as hell wasn't for comfort purposes, the are much more comfortable cars for the same price, it wasn't ffor the smooth ride, that really doesn't exist in sports cars, or at least it shouldn't, and on and on. So when it comes right down to it they bought their cars for speed, backing this up is the fact that they then go on to modify their cars, to get more speed, or better handling.

Now I take a step back from this argument about STi vs. EVO. Think about it most of you bought your car because it is an excellent bang for the buck, and it's practical, with four doors. Well so is the EVO and for a similar price it's a better car. Now before you get mad a me think about it. Some of you will say "I can modify my car to be just as fast and then it will be just as fast and have a better interior". Right back to you about the EVO I will say "I can modify the interior and be the same as you, all the while retaining all of my powertrain warrenties, which you may or may not depending on your dealer".

My point is this, don't say you bought your car because it has a good interior or fit and finish, because for the same money you could get a Audi A4 or VW Passat, both of which have a better interiors than a subaru.(I'm concentrating on the price of a WRX not RS). The only argument that holds water in this whole discussion really is style preference, because evrything else can be done better at the same price range. For me, I still haven't decided, I like the features of the EVO but I really prefer the styling of the STi. One thing is for sure though I just got back from Japan and had a chance to sit in the newest R34 GT-R(M spec) and it was small as hell(i'm 6'2" 250), with the seat all the way ajusted back I couldn't properly work the pedals, it was very sad. I sat in the WRX and I fit so I imagine the STi is similar with the seat itself being a little more tight, I don't know about the EVO though so it might be an easy decision after all.

The main reason I'm posting this is I really enjoy this forum, I don't post often, but I love to read. I'm hoping this place doen't turn into the f-body forums where it's constant bashing on the musting or EVO in this case. If we are all true automotive enthusists we should enjoy all cars and recognize that no matter what you have there will always be something better either from the factory or from someones garage.
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Old 01-28-2002, 07:07 AM   #16
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If my memory serves me right, I don't think a GSR Evo 7 is slower than the STI Type-RA on the track, I believe my source IS correct.
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Old 01-28-2002, 11:07 AM   #17
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There is no STI VII Type RA except the Spec C right?

Dan
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Old 01-28-2002, 02:52 PM   #18
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There was a Type RA version of the new-age Impreza but I believe when a lighter EVO VII RS came out they pulled it and created the spec-c. We were talking to some SOA reps at the sno*drift prorally this last weekend and one of the first questions was about the STi. His answer was that it's definitely on its way but no ETA or any details yet. He said it was too early in the whole process to really give any kind of dates or committments. The EVO vs. STi thing will be huge here if and when they bring the two over and it's not going to go away anytime soon.
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Old 01-28-2002, 08:51 PM   #19
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Evo 7 RS beat the Type RA, but not the Type RA Spec C. But who cares - in the real world they are both fast enough!

The RA (2 models essentially) has been around since the release of the current shape (same body panels, same underframes etc as the std car, only a few equipment deletes and one non-Brembo/small brake, steel wheel model) - the Spec C was only released recently.

Going back to bed - this Evo vs. STI stuff is getting old.

Peace.
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Old 01-28-2002, 10:50 PM   #20
wonthanhboi
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Default it all depends on the driver.

Yes, the subie world is probably the best. I love it here, even though there are bashing and flaming here n there. The thing is, the subie and evo are both great cars. Just that DSM only brought the stupid rally edition lancer which in my opinion, looks BUTT ugly. It looks all saggy to me. The shape of the car looks like this like this..... "/ \" to me. Anyways, just imho.

And about the racing and stuff, it really doesn't matter. We all just have to live with the fact that both cars are great and very fun. Racing-wise, it all depends on the skill of the driver. Dragging... whoever has the better launch will win. Road-racing, whoever knows the limits of their cars and how to drive correctly will win. Look at TAKUMI in INITIAL D with his ae86. HAHAHHAA. What im trying to say is...... REAL DRIVERS DRIVE SUBIES. hahahah. jk. Just DSM has made too many mistakes in the US market. They let the impreza beat them to the finish line. OWELL. Will they catch up? I don't know about that. Hopefully SOA wont be stupid enough to just stand by watching the tortoise mozey on by slowly.

~ thanh
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Old 01-29-2002, 10:37 PM   #21
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Excellent post, rmbrady! I totally agree with you.
I love both the EVO and STi! These are great cars!!
Too bad it is not yet available in US.


(Personally, I prefer
the style of the EVO to the bug eys style of WRX.
They should have the same tinted JDM headlight here!!
I also like the advantage computer technology on the
EVO. )

Although this Sti and EVO comparsion is getting old,
I kinda of enjoying the FRIENDLY comparsion. I think
these comparsion in the media, internet forum, etc
create a strong competition between Subaru and DSM.
We, the automotive enthusists, benefit as a result in this
tight competition. The cars keeps getting better and better,
in terms of performance and price/perforance ratio!

Keep the competition going, and we will soon see EVO VIII
and STI VIII !!!!!
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Old 01-30-2002, 09:19 AM   #22
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Ok, time for the old-timer to chime in on this. I don't post much, so it may be kinda long-winded.

When I first started looking for a new car 3 years ago or so, I was actually looking for the EVO. After looking around on the net and doing the dealer thing, I learned that they weren't available. At the time all I knew was Nissan. The someone told me to come the to the RS board and see if the WRX was available. Of course it was not but I found that the board was much friendlier than others, and many had ideas on how to build and EVO. They were wanting to help me put together a DSM, not a Subaru! They were loyal to Subaru, but not in an overbearing way, and were willing to help me. Since then I have been everyday. I have seen the board grow and experience growing pains, but the character of the board has remained intact.

On the EVO vs. STi debate, I will admit that when the new age WRX broke cover, I was one of the most vocal detractors. I mean that I yelled, screamed and stamped my feet like a brat. But the car has grown on me, and I have come to accept it, with all it's "unique characteristics". Enter the EVO, and hence the conflict within arises. At first glance the EVO, IMHO, has the slight edge in the looks department....slight. The thing that detracts from the front end is the lack of fog lights. I like lights. Interior wise, STi all the way, nuf said on that. Performance.......hmmmm. It seems to me that there are is a lot of magazine dyno and drag racing going on. So, many pro test drivers like the EVO over the STi. So what. I wonder how many actually own either of the cars and drive it daily in the bumper to bumper rush hour grind of life. this is what will sell me. Sure, I can drive 120 going to work every morning on the beltway, but on the way home at night I will average 20 - 30. In this narrow respect, I believe that the STi will be more in-tune with me and my definition of "liveable". If all you want to be king fo the stoplight grand prix, than the EVO will be the better choice. I'm getting too old for that, and will let the younger generation carry the torch in that area. But it will nice to spank some big iron from time to time.

In the end it will call come down to the driver. I am sure that there will be many battles between the 2 cars, some won and some lost. This old war-horse will have to watch from the sidelines, most of the time. Just be happy that we will have the chance to drive them. Me, I'm sticking with the STi. The EVO may have more power and more gadgets, but the STi, is more like me.....understated, but full of potential.

Lovejoy
.......slowly fading into history....
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Old 01-30-2002, 01:22 PM   #23
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Ok, guys. I have been debating for awhile whether to post or not but I just have to have my say in this debate. Everyone seems to have a lot of good points to make which are very valid. I better start off by saying I don't think I'm a true car enthusiast because there are certain cars and manufacturers I simply do not like, albeit for a good reason. I browse consumer reports and on the TV last night I noticed they listed the most reliable and unreliable cars and reliability to me is very important. I noticed that 6/7 unreliable cars (Ford Focus being #1) they were all American cars and all the most reliable rated cars were Japanese (Toyota and Honda) and I think there was a BMW or Mercedes in there too but I can't remember. I used to own a Pontiac and it was the most unreliable car I have encountered. So, in short I only love reliable cars. Subaru is rated within the top 5 by JD Powers in a survey I have from Europe or Asia (I know this because Skoda is listed in there). I'll scan it if someone wants it. Anyway back to the debate . Given that the EVO and STi are so similar in price, performance and design they really should be compared I think. I've done a lot of research and even came across an article that someone posted that showed exact 0-60 and 0-100 MPH times (4.5s, 11.0s respectively) for the cars. However I also understand and have read in all other articles that the EVO 7 reaches peak torque 500 rpm earlier (3500rpm) than the STi which to me is negligible. The EVO 7 also has less understeer due o it's YAW control system. In the end the differences are minimal and only apply to true race drivers to notice the differences. Not only that but given Mitsubishi's poor track record compared to Subaru's I wouldn't bet on the YAW computer system lasting that long nor will the rest of the components. I say this because Mitsubishi was busted last year for withholding evidence of car defects and overall they aren't rated as reliable as Subaru. I would have to agree with the magazines on the Subaru being more refined and "liveable" although it is a little more. My conclusion is that I would take the Subaru because it's more reliable, refined and the performance differences only apply to our good friend Tommy Makkinen . There is a lot more I could say but that's it for now. I hope I just haven't started another flame war but that is how I feel.
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Old 01-30-2002, 01:37 PM   #24
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hey, I have an idea? Why don't we all shut up with the comparo's between the j-spec EVO and the j-spec STi. We're not getting j-spec cars!!! So all that crap the mags say about performance means as much as a WRX performance test does when looking for a 2.5RS.

We will be getting detuned car, and you can bet your ass they will both probably put down the same numbers with MAYBE a slight HP edge either way, but the speed difference will most likely be negligable.

The only thing we can take into account from the mags is probably drivability/quality. There's a good chance the suspension will be changed to suit our pot hole filled roads, as well as power decrease due to emmissions. Oh, don't forget the subtraction of various gadgets to keep MSRP down.

All this crap about "oh this mag said the EVO was faster so the STi sucks" or "so and so said the STi was more fun so the EVO sucks" is worthless.
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Old 01-30-2002, 03:25 PM   #25
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Jewbaru, it's all good, come on now, where is the love, show some love..
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