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Old 01-24-2002, 11:21 PM   #1
Revision
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Default Blackened Headers.. Well Done

http://pages.ripco.net/~tin-man/mods/htop.jpg

Jethot 2000 in black good to 2100 deg F.. Supposedly... Let's hope I don't test that out.
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Last edited by Revision; 01-27-2002 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 01-24-2002, 11:22 PM   #2
whitewag
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looks stock

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looks nice, you do that yourself?
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Old 01-24-2002, 11:33 PM   #3
Midwayman
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Amazing what removing the heat shields and a can of Krylon can do!
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Old 01-24-2002, 11:37 PM   #4
Revision
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The cool part is that now I get to try to figure out how to reweld the heat shields back on...


http://pages.ripco.net/~tin-man/mods/hcollector.jpg

Last edited by Revision; 01-27-2002 at 03:25 AM.
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Old 01-25-2002, 02:31 AM   #5
HndaTch627
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i thought the heat shields were all bolt on. Don't tell me they tack weld those suckers on.

jeremy
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Old 01-25-2002, 03:43 AM   #6
8Complex

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They tack weld those suckers on. Leave them off, make life easier on yourself by not creating TONS of rattles, buzzes, and unknown noises.
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Old 01-25-2002, 05:12 AM   #7
Clegg
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Just order some rolls of header wrap instead from Pegasus Racing but then I guess your pretty painjob would be pointless


Are those the stock subie headers?
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Old 01-25-2002, 05:50 AM   #8
8Complex

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Forgot to mention above, but that is Jet Hot coating on those tubes. I think you might be CE-light safe without coating them further (not to mention that there will be no CE light when you install that TEC-II kit).
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Old 01-25-2002, 01:12 PM   #9
HndaTch627
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well if they are track welded then just leave them off cause they are ONLY going to make noise otherwise. What a dumb ass idea to tack weld those one. I just saw bolts so i figured they'd be replaced easily, guess not huh??


Quote:
Just order some rolls of header wrap instead from Pegasus Racing but then I guess your pretty painjob would be pointles
Header wrap has been known to cause the metal to fatigue and crack but i think i am going to try it and see what we come up with.

jeremy
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Old 01-25-2002, 01:38 PM   #10
Clegg
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well I think most people know header wrap lowers the life of your headers. Just a side effect of insulating a 1500Deg pipe
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Old 01-25-2002, 02:44 PM   #11
ColinL
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interesting... what's the idea behind it?

I mean say what you want about borla, they're better than stock. "usually" don't cause any CE lights on a MY99 either.
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Old 01-25-2002, 03:21 PM   #12
Evan J. Kelly
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i'd never touch borla... let alone waste my money on it.
that is just my oppinion of course.


Nice paint job though.

~evan
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Old 01-25-2002, 05:32 PM   #13
Clegg
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Theres been too many complaints about broken welds, or shoddy quality on borla stuff for me to touch em. Also from what I hear they arent that much better over stock.
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Old 01-25-2002, 05:39 PM   #14
ColinL
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I'll be honest, I haven't followed any real recent discussions about Borla. (have there been any?) But I know that the early ones were quality plagued and that for some users Borla repaired their headers or upgraded them to the later generation product. I haven't seen comments about the current header being a problem, but again I haven't been looking hard.

The stock header on the other hand is clearly a high performance piece of work with that 180 degree bend for the RH bank and the instant merging of both exhaust ports per side into one.
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Old 01-26-2002, 03:58 AM   #15
HndaTch627
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Quote:
Originally posted by ColinL
I'll be honest, I haven't followed any real recent discussions about Borla. (have there been any?) But I know that the early ones were quality plagued and that for some users Borla repaired their headers or upgraded them to the later generation product. I haven't seen comments about the current header being a problem, but again I haven't been looking hard.

The stock header on the other hand is clearly a high performance piece of work with that 180 degree bend for the RH bank and the instant merging of both exhaust ports per side into one.
I am with colin on the crappy design of the factory manifold but it has 2 things a header does not....near Equal length runners(yes it does make a 90 degree turn to the exahust), and also it's double wall steel which means it holds in heat better.

Now borla has had and still has quality problems, they are one their 4th generation header for the 2.5 and are STILL seeing fatigue cracks. To be honest it seems to me like they rushed in heads first to get their name in on a market that was about ready to sky rocket and that's why we are seeing such poor workmanship. the problem with the borla is larger primaries which equals slower exhaust pulses making for more turbo lag. Yes they flow better at the top thanks to the larger primaries and mandrel bends that direct exhaust out the collector but the runners are also no where NEAR equal length. A borla on a turbo car is KNOWN to create more lag and less overall driveability.

That's jet-hot coating on andrews manifolds not spray paint.

jeremy
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Old 01-26-2002, 09:08 AM   #16
ColinL
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jeremy, you're making the massive assumption that the factory got the primaries the "right" size. the borlas are not that much larger, and the two problems I pointed out with the stock headers above are way more serious problems than anything a 'nearly' equal length design would offer.
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Old 01-26-2002, 12:28 PM   #17
HndaTch627
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right if you were going NA i would have a header in a second but going turbo you want the heat in and the exhaust pulse speed up.

but anyhow you gotta love jet hot coatings
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Old 01-27-2002, 03:09 AM   #18
Revision
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Actually what I found interesting is that Subaru didn't go with cast iron for this part and instead went with a lightweight steel (I think it is aluminized steel). Inside of the 90 degree bend, the passenger side feed actually is still a tube right up to about an inch from the flange. Meaning there are two separate passageways in that 90 degree bend. The gasses do not meet until the pipe straightens out again. With engine pulses alternating firing in 1-3-2-4 through 720 degrees, that means that there is some interesting scavanging going on assuming that those crazy Subaru engineers timed the pulses. I'm guessing (lots of guessing and hypothtical stuff since I'm not a crazy Subaru engineer) that as one side of the engine fires and travels down to the flange, it would create a nice vacuum traveling up the opposite side of the Y pipe so that then with the opposing side fires, it does the same thing to the other side, but then the same side fires again screwing everything up, but setting up the other side...

Ah forget it, I'm giving myself a headache! LOL

I do know for a fact that the undersized exhaust ports off the block and the way the oversized flange for the headers mate up, leaving the step, which contribues to low and midrange response. The header is all handmade, the bends are done in a standard exhaust pipe bender found in any muffler shop (probably for cost). The collector pieces are unique and then hand welded to the piping. The piping appears to extend into the collectors, bot the primary and secondary creating a nice split down the center of the pipe.

That is a lot of work for what should be a cheap piece of piping.
And if I read Corky Bell's book right, all this means good low-mid range response which is what is desired at low rpm levels, leaving higher rpm response up to a turbo.

This next part is not a theory. It has been observed that a MY00 EJ25 engine using stock headers and similar sized uppipe into a VF23 into 2 hi-flow cats dumping into a 3 inch exhaust will spool to 8lbs of boost at 2800 rpm...

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Old 01-27-2002, 03:15 AM   #19
Clegg
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Which Bell book you refering to?

I have the "max boost" and "supercharged!" books from him ( just orderd from Amazon) cant wait to get them to start reading up. The Supercharged one has my interest more than the Max Boost, since it seems S/C'n is a black art (to pick the right type, size, and method for any given engine or application).

I also ordered the "You and your Impreza Turbo" I couldn't resist
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Old 01-27-2002, 03:28 AM   #20
Revision
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I "stole" Mark/Paul's copy of Max Boost.. Seems a lopsided trade since they have my Marvel Akira graphic novels and my Ghost in The Shell graphic novel...

Have you guys finished reading those yet???
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Old 01-27-2002, 03:39 AM   #21
Donnie
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gunmetal

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they cant see this there in the bathroom reading
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