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Old 11-28-2007, 04:50 PM   #1
03SuBbYWrX
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Default 2003 wrx w/ ej257 swap sti cams stock 2.0L heads on a TD06H 20g w/ 8cm exhaust housin

Ok im not sure if i have any power bragging right but im just curious what you guys think.

2003 WRX

Mods:
ej257 swap (stock internals)
stock 2.0L heads (soon to be ported and polished)
sti cams
k&N typhoon CAI
Turbosmart BOV
TurboXS Top Mount
GM Boost Silinoid
Samco turbo inlet (2.4in)
Blouche TD06H 20g w/ 8 cm exhaust housing
Invidia Racing cat-back
Invidia catless downpipe (Bellmount)
Invidia Catless Uppipe
850cc injectors
walbro 255 fuel pump
sti type RA gearset (5 speed)
ACT heavy duty clutch
ACT lightweight flywheel

When i got my tune the tuner was having problems with the maps and then when he finally got everything working right. the car put now 381 awhp and 364 lb/tq on pump gas. But my ecu won't handle the amount of mass air flow that want to be pushed through. i maxxed out the ecu at 297g/sec at 5000 rpms and who knows what i went up to after that. so my car runs lean in the higher rpms, and i am getting a stand alone ecu very soon to fix this problem. with stand alone ill prob be able to put down close to 390 awhp on pump and over 400 on 104 octane race gas. Does this sound good or what?
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:02 PM   #2
vinceGC8
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pretty good numbers for a 2.0L hybrid.

why not get a big maf and the maf problem?
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:21 PM   #3
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Sounds a little high..........Where's the graph?
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JMK508 View Post
Sounds a little high..........Where's the graph?
Doesnt sound that high to me..I just put down 360whp on my stock 2.0l bottom end running a 7cm Fpgreen..Look for my thread in power bragging.. Master2192 posted the thread for me and did all my tuning..We're going for 380whp on pump and only boost..
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03SuBbYWrX View Post
Ok im not sure if i have any power bragging right but im just curious what you guys think.

2003 WRX

Mods:
ej257 swap (stock internals)
stock 2.0L heads (soon to be ported and polished)
sti cams
k&N typhoon CAI
Turbosmart BOV
TurboXS Top Mount
GM Boost Silinoid
Samco turbo inlet (2.4in)
Blouche TD06H 20g w/ 8 cm exhaust housing
Invidia Racing cat-back
Invidia catless downpipe (Bellmount)
Invidia Catless Uppipe
850cc injectors
walbro 255 fuel pump
sti type RA gearset (5 speed)
ACT heavy duty clutch
ACT lightweight flywheel

When i got my tune the tuner was having problems with the maps and then when he finally got everything working right. the car put now 381 awhp and 364 lb/tq on pump gas. But my ecu won't handle the amount of mass air flow that want to be pushed through. i maxxed out the ecu at 297g/sec at 5000 rpms and who knows what i went up to after that. so my car runs lean in the higher rpms, and i am getting a stand alone ecu very soon to fix this problem. with stand alone ill prob be able to put down close to 390 awhp on pump and over 400 on 104 octane race gas. Does this sound good or what?
Either you maxed out the MAF sensor or your tuner is inexperienced and doesn't know how to work around the 300 g/s limitation. Because you mentioned 297 g/s it sounds like the later. While a standalone will fix the issue, IMO it is not money that needs to be spent if your tuner knew what he was doing.

A BigMAF and a proper tune would solve any issues with fueling if the maf sensor was maxed out in the stock housing.
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Old 11-28-2007, 05:54 PM   #6
03SuBbYWrX
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its not nessesarily the mass air flow that is maxed out its the ecu that can't put the amount nessesary down. the stock 2.0L ecu is restrictive and my tuner tuned my car for 5 hours and he knows what he is doing. that shop has the world's quickest evo. my stock ecu can't handle it. even if i put a big mass air flow sensor it still wouldn't fix the problem.
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:03 PM   #7
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ya just get a Perrin/Cobb BIG MAF and you will be able to tune it for more power as the MAF wont be so maxxed out... save yourself a thousand bux on a standalone and do it this way first...
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:11 PM   #8
03SuBbYWrX
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ok well i guess im a lil confused. he said its not really the mass air flow sensor that is maxed out its the ecu that won't handle it to tune it right. he tried crazy ratios instead of like a 11:1 he would try like 9:1 and all the way down to 4:1 ratio and nothing fixed it. i asked him what if i just got a bigger mass air flow and he told me that that won't work either. he said i need a different ecu cause its an issue with the ecu
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Old 11-28-2007, 06:21 PM   #9
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^ I would also like to see this graph! Sounds very high. FPGreen and a 20g or very differnt! Lets see it! I would be very impressed considering your tuner did not know what to do in that situation.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:32 PM   #10
03SuBbYWrX
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well considering my car is detuned at the moment cause of this issue he did not give me the sheet or have time because we were there till 9pm and they closed at 6 pm. next time i get it tuned and we work everything out ill get the graph for yea
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:50 PM   #11
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Its definately the maf or should I say the lack of a big maf. I ran a very simialr set up and I had to upgrade to the Perrin big maf.

Get the big maf and stay with the stock ecu. Its a hell of a lot cheaper solution than a stand alone. With that setup you should be able to push > 400whp on a dyno jet with 104 octane.
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Old 11-28-2007, 07:54 PM   #12
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That sounds really good for that set-up. i am going for a similar build using autronic PnP ecu and thinking about going deadbolt td06 18g. Oh and this would go in a 99 rs coupe.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:12 PM   #13
03SuBbYWrX
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so you guys are saying buy the perrin intake system BIG MAF

http://www.perrinperformance.com/pro...ory=3&model=18
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03SuBbYWrX View Post
its not nessesarily the mass air flow that is maxed out its the ecu that can't put the amount nessesary down. the stock 2.0L ecu is restrictive and my tuner tuned my car for 5 hours and he knows what he is doing. that shop has the world's quickest evo. my stock ecu can't handle it. even if i put a big mass air flow sensor it still wouldn't fix the problem.
As Master2192 stated, the tuner isn't familiar enough with Subaru ECUs to go around the 300g/s limit. I'm pulling over 330g/sec on my reflashed 03 ECU, there's no need to go standalone, just need to get the proper tune worked around.

After working around the 300g/sec limit the only limit you will have then is the actual MAFv limit of 5.0v(& load limit but proper tuning can work around that). A bigMAF will take care of the 5.0v limit.

EVO tuner != Subaru Tuner. I'm NOT saying he's incompetent, only stating that there are difference in the ECU's of Subaru & EVO's.


Do you recall what MAFv you were hitting?

+1 for sticking w/ the stock ECU, it more capable than most know. Very nice numbers BTW.

Last edited by testes1010; 11-28-2007 at 09:52 PM.
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Old 11-28-2007, 09:56 PM   #15
tmarcel
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testes,

There are some really good reasons to go standalone. But first, I will preface this stating that I am a big believer in factory reflashing and use it myself. With that said, standalone offers flexibilty that you do not have with a factory ECU. There are no bandaids like "big MAFs" and such. Take a look at the new Haltech ECUs on the market and you will see what I mean. Not to mention, generally the resolution is better as well.

OP, your numbers are high.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:11 PM   #16
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testes,

There are some really good reasons to go standalone. But first, I will preface this stating that I am a big believer in factory reflashing and use it myself. With that said, standalone offers flexibilty that you do not have with a factory ECU. There are no bandaids like "big MAFs" and such. Take a look at the new Haltech ECUs on the market and you will see what I mean. Not to mention, generally the resolution is better as well.
I'm not stating that standalone's aren't nice, BUT for 99% of us on the boards the stock ECU will suffice, as you know & do.

For me, if I were the OP, would simply do the fix(bandaids as you stated), instead of buying a $1500-2500 standalone & save yourself the greenbacks. Both being properly tuned(w/ the necessary 'bandaids') you won't make any more power with the OPs current setup w/ a standalone vs. a properly reflashed stock ECU.

Plus Missouri has OBDII emissions testing where the Standalone will FAIL miserably. EDIT: Though I saw St. Charles, MO...he in IL, no emissions testing FTW!!!!

I will state that I have no experience with standalones, but I do have experience w/ the UTEC(which is as close to a standalone a piggyback will ever get). Hopefully here in spring I will get some laptop-time behind a AEM EMS but it won't be on a Subaru, it'll be a friends Eclipse.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:12 PM   #17
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I have almost the same set up as you but I have a fmic and a sz49 turbo. When we first tuned it we had problems maxing out the maf. We worked around that and then had problems with the knock threshold. That was when we were flashing the stock ecu. We then put a hydra in and had no problems. The car made 412 awhp on 93 and hydramist. This was not tuned on the dyno. It is 100% street tuned. This is also not tuned to the raged edge ether. It has put on the dyno later just to see what it made. I have not gotten to get it tune for race gas yet. This car ran 11.70 @118 smoking the tires. So get yourself some kind of standalone. You will love it.
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Old 11-28-2007, 10:21 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testes1010
I will state that I have no experience with standalones, but I do have experience w/ the UTEC(which is as close to a standalone a piggyback will ever get). Hopefully here in spring I will get some laptop-time behind a AEM EMS but it won't be on a Subaru, it'll be a friends Eclipse.
You will love working with the AEM, the software is WAY better than the hydra and it doesn't seem to have some of the bugs that the hydra does.

While the Standalone does have benefits, until you work out every single parameter it will not run the same as it did on the dyno tune. Things such as a heat soaked manifold can throw off your AFR from 11 to 10 easily (and almost no one is putting IAT sensors in the manifold) which without adding the proper timing can make EGTs soar above 1900.
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Old 11-28-2007, 11:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmarcel View Post
testes,

There are some really good reasons to go standalone. But first, I will preface this stating that I am a big believer in factory reflashing and use it myself. With that said, standalone offers flexibilty that you do not have with a factory ECU. There are no bandaids like "big MAFs" and such. Take a look at the new Haltech ECUs on the market and you will see what I mean. Not to mention, generally the resolution is better as well.
standalone is alittle extreme for a 2.0 and a 20g in my opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by testes1010 View Post
I'm not stating that standalone's aren't nice, BUT for 99% of us on the boards the stock ECU will suffice, as you know & do.

For me, if I were the OP, would simply do the fix(bandaids as you stated), instead of buying a $1500-2500 standalone & save yourself the greenbacks.

Agreed. Al hit like 530 whp on a "stock" sti ecu. Granted, sti's and wrx's are tuned differently (diff ecu's, diff tuning strategies) but, there are ways to get around some limitations [of the wrx ecu] like master2192 said.

To the OP... Care to divulge who the tuner was?


edit: sorry, it's a 2.5, my bad

Last edited by wrxhard; 11-29-2007 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 11-29-2007, 09:08 AM   #20
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To the OP... Care to divulge who the tuner was?
world's quickest evo = AMS in Chicago.
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Old 11-29-2007, 10:00 AM   #21
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world's quickest evo8 = AMS in Chicago.
ficksed
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Old 11-29-2007, 12:01 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testes1010 View Post
As Master2192 stated, the tuner isn't familiar enough with Subaru ECUs to go around the 300g/s limit. I'm pulling over 330g/sec on my reflashed 03 ECU, there's no need to go standalone, just need to get the proper tune worked around.

After working around the 300g/sec limit the only limit you will have then is the actual MAFv limit of 5.0v(& load limit but proper tuning can work around that). A bigMAF will take care of the 5.0v limit.

EVO tuner != Subaru Tuner. I'm NOT saying he's incompetent, only stating that there are difference in the ECU's of Subaru & EVO's.


Do you recall what MAFv you were hitting?

+1 for sticking w/ the stock ECU, it more capable than most know. Very nice numbers BTW.
Also, if you are maxing out the stock maf voltage, as a temporary bandaid you can run fueling increasingly richer in the load/rpm cells above the point where you're maxing the maf out.

iirc cobb says something like 350whp -> mapping down to 10:1 will get you 11:1, and 400whp -> mapping 8:1 will get you 11:1
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Old 11-29-2007, 01:44 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by testes1010 View Post
As Master2192 stated, the tuner isn't familiar enough with Subaru ECUs to go around the 300g/s limit. I'm pulling over 330g/sec on my reflashed 03 ECU, there's no need to go standalone, just need to get the proper tune worked around.

After working around the 300g/sec limit the only limit you will have then is the actual MAFv limit of 5.0v(& load limit but proper tuning can work around that). A bigMAF will take care of the 5.0v limit.

EVO tuner != Subaru Tuner. I'm NOT saying he's incompetent, only stating that there are difference in the ECU's of Subaru & EVO's.


Do you recall what MAFv you were hitting?

+1 for sticking w/ the stock ECU, it more capable than most know. Very nice numbers BTW.
As both of these guys said, you stock ECU is capable if you know how to tune it. You'll need to do some rescaling, but it will work fine.
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Old 11-29-2007, 02:16 PM   #24
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who tuned your car?
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Old 11-29-2007, 06:30 PM   #25
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Chris at AMS he went all the way down to like 5:1 and tried everything but none of it was working out and my car still ran lean at higher rpms. ok well all you guys are talking about bandaids, why spend the money for bandaids now if i might go bigger later on. im not gonna put on a 35r and try to work with all these band aids. so why not get a stand alone now. yea its expensive i realize that. but i would say for the money that has gone into the car, why use bandaids instead of doing it right. AMS in west chicago (world's quickest evo yes) tuned my car and it was on the dyno for 5-6 hours. don't you think if they couldn't work it out in that amount of time that it can't be worked out. Some of you say that the tuner is unexperienced, but i can assure you he knows a lot about what he is doing and he even called cobb and talked to the big dog to see what they suggest and he said to keep doing what ur doing with the fuel cell stuff and nothing fixed the prob. a BIG Mass air flow i don't belive will fix the problem. maybe im wrong but thats just my opinion. there are some stand alones out there that are really good and im looking to probably get an AEM EMS because thats what my shop is most familar with. the other opinion is a Hydra. whats ur guys opinions?
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