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Old 11-30-2007, 11:45 AM   #1
Teh Legacy
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Default Knock due to Ignition Cut? Logs inside.

I'm experiencing a couple counts of knock when using launch control / flat foot shifting with ignition cut. I'm assuming it's interpreting the backfires as knock, but I want to be sure. Here are my logs:

Launch Control:
Code:
                         Knk Car  Car   Calc Map   MAF Target    
 RPM   MAP  MAF  TPS MLP Cnt AFR Inj#1    VE  VE   Inj   AFR  IAT
       psia  V    %                mS      %   %    mS         C 
  932 -10.7 1.35   4  00  0 14.0  1.67   72 105   2.04 14.7   24 
  927 -10.7 1.35   4  00  0 14.0  1.67   73 105   2.04 14.7   24 
  941 -10.7 1.35   4  00  0 14.0  1.67   74 105   2.04 14.7   24 
  933 -10.7 1.35   3  00  0 13.6  1.65   74 105   2.02 14.7   24 
  927 -11.1 1.35   4  00  0 13.6  1.65   73 105   2.00 14.7   24 
  907 -10.7 1.35   3  00  0 13.6  1.65   74 105   2.06 14.7   24 
  912 -10.7 1.35   4  00  0 14.0  1.65   74 105   2.06 14.7   24 
  917 -10.7 1.37   4  00  0 14.0  1.67   75 105   2.09 14.7   23 
  929 -10.7 1.33   4  00  0 14.0  1.68   74 105   1.99 14.7   24 
  943 -10.7 1.33   4  00  0 14.0  1.66   72 105   1.99 14.7   24 
  905 -10.7 1.33   8  00  0 13.6  1.62   73 105   2.08 14.7   24 
  907  -2.3 2.33  23  00  0 13.3  2.46  148 105   6.30 14.7   24 
 2131  -4.2 2.11   8  00  0 rich  2.45   60 110   2.79 14.7   24 
 2574 -11.1 1.64  14  00  0 14.7  1.41   49 111   1.97 14.7   24 
 2784  -4.2 2.80  29  10  0 13.6  5.19*  85 114   5.84 14.7   24 
 3728  -8.8 1.94   7  10  0 rich  3.76*  80 116   1.70 14.7   24 
 3192 -12.1 1.64  10  00  0 rich  1.35   61 113   1.72 14.7   24 
 2893 -11.6 1.80  12  00  0 rich  1.38   75 114   1.92 14.7   24 
 3126  -5.6 2.78  29  10  0 rich  4.59*  87 113   5.25 14.7   24 
 4262  -8.4 2.45   4  10  0 rich  3.93*  96 114   2.00 14.6   24 
 3732 -12.5 2.07  16  00  0 rich  1.37   65 116   1.81 14.7   24 
 3871  -7.4 2.70  25  00  0 12.2  2.37   91 116   4.21 14.7   24 
 4510  -7.4 2.86  25  10  0 rich  3.86*  96 110   4.63 14.6   24 
 5200  -9.3 2.76  28  10  0 rich  3.07* 107 104   3.76 14.3   24 
 5878  +0.0 3.80 100  10  0 14.7  7.19*  90 104   8.43 12.5   24 
 5941  +1.4 3.90 100  10  0 lean  7.91*  98 104  10.64 12.3   24 
 5827  +4.2 4.03 100  10  0 lean  9.06*  95 104  10.67 12.3   25 
 5963  +7.0 4.39 100  20  2 15.2 10.38*  91 104  12.02 12.1   25 
 5878  +8.4 4.13 100  30  0 lean 11.09*  98 104  12.25 12.0   25 
 5941 +10.2 4.35 100  30  2 lean 12.13*  87 104  12.32 11.7   25 
 5941 +12.1 4.49 100  30  7 lean 12.74*  91 104  16.27 11.7   26 
 6071 +14.9 4.72 100  50  1 15.5 14.50*  80 104  15.20 11.3   26 
 5807 +15.8 4.37 100  50  1 lean 14.89*  75 104  13.05 11.4   26 
 6548 +16.3 4.94  99  50  0 lean 15.17*  82 102  18.42 11.3   27 
 6397 +18.6 4.84 100  60  1 lean 15.97*  78 104  16.82 11.3   27 
 6150 +17.7 4.50 100  50 12 lean 16.11*  83 103  15.34 11.3   27 
 6195 +21.9 5.00 100  70  7 15.7 17.40*  84 102  18.83 11.2   27 
 6613 +20.0 4.88  99  60 15 15.2 16.60*  78 101  16.00 11.2   28 
 6325 +19.5 4.54  49  60  1 lean 16.16*  85 102  16.27 11.3   28 
 5910 -10.2 3.84   3  10  6 15.7  2.95* 155 104   6.66 13.9   28 
 5128 -13.0 3.17   3  10  0 13.0  1.68* 327 104   4.44 14.5   28
Flat food shifting:

Code:
                         Knk Car  Car   Calc Map   MAF Target    
 RPM   MAP  MAF  TPS MLP Cnt AFR Inj#1    VE  VE   Inj   AFR  IAT
       psia  V    %                mS      %   %    mS         C 

 4203  +0.5 3.52  80  10  0 rich  7.09*  99 114   8.91 14.1   36 
 4629  +2.3 3.84  99  10  0 rich  7.91* 113 109  10.80 12.9   35 
 5104  +5.1 4.15  99  10  0 rich  9.04* 116 104  13.32 12.1   35 
 5787  +9.8 4.54  98  30  0 rich 11.77* 106 104  15.27 11.7   35 
 6447 +16.8 4.86  98  50  0 rich 14.94*  94 102  18.54 11.3   35 
 7183 +23.3 5.00  98  70  0 rich 17.18*  84  99  16.62 11.3   35 
 5984 +19.5 4.35 100  60  0 lean 16.11*  69 104  13.39 11.3   35 
 4721 +18.6 4.66 101  60  0 lean 15.79*  87 104  19.29 11.0   36 
 5411 +22.8 4.76 101  70  0 rich 18.31*  91 107  18.91 11.1   37 
 5995 +24.7 4.84 100  70  0 rich 18.63*  87 104  18.52 11.2   38 
 6289 +24.7 4.90 100  70  0 rich 17.68*  85 100  17.72 11.2   38 
 6747 +24.7 4.94 100  70  0 rich 17.38*  80  98  16.59 11.2   39 
 7077 +24.2 4.96 100  70  0 rich 17.18*  75  98  15.74 11.3   40 
 6337 +19.1 4.58 100  60  0 lean 15.68*  65 103  13.16 11.3   41 
 5367 +19.5 4.66 101  60  8 lean 15.95*  93 105  17.60 11.1   41 
 5767 +23.7 4.88 100  70  0 rich 18.31*  94 105  19.52 11.1   43 
 5878 +25.6 5.00 100  80  0 rich 18.49*  93 104  19.43 11.2   44 
 6060 +25.1 4.90 100  70  0 rich 18.02*  87 103  18.83 11.2   46 
 6510 +24.7 4.92 100  70  0 rich 17.05*  86 101  17.90 11.2   47 
 6600 +23.7 4.92 100  70  0 rich 16.89*  85  99  17.67 11.2   47 
 6830 +24.7 4.98 100  70  0 rich 16.87*  85  98  17.21 11.2   49 
 7062 +24.2 4.96 101  70  0 rich 16.45*  83  98  16.57 11.3   50 
 6422 +20.0 4.72 101  60  0 lean 15.33*  76 103  14.37 11.3   51 
 5411 +22.3 4.88 100  70  0 rich 17.33* 102 106  19.25 11.1   52 
 5446 +24.2 4.88 100  70  0 rich 18.07*  97 105  19.34 11.1   51 
 5889 +24.7 4.92 100  80  0 rich 17.82*  94 104  19.70 11.2   53 
 5963 +25.1 4.90 101  70  0 rich 17.87*  94 104  19.32 11.2   52 
 6397  +1.9 3.33   2  10  0 rich  6.66* 100 104   5.54 12.5   52 
 5727 -11.6 2.98   2  10  0 16.8  2.13* 345 104   4.30 14.0   54 
 5455 -12.1 3.43   2  10  0 rich  1.77* 409 104   6.25 14.2   55 
 5249 -13.0 3.60   2  10  0 rich  1.62* 936 104   8.52 14.4   56 
 4866 -13.0 3.39   2  10  0 rich  1.48* 931 109   7.16 14.5   57
Another run using normal logging:

Code:
3671 099  -2.3  10 +25.8 14.3 00000 
3835 099  -0.9  10 +24.4 14.3 00000 
3982 099  +0.9  10 +22.9 14.0 00000 
4145 099  +2.3  10 +22.2 14.3 00000 
4456 099  +3.3  20 +21.5 14.3 00000 
4675 099  +4.7  30 +20.0 14.5 00000 
5058 099  +6.1  40 +18.7 14.5 00000 
5420 099  +8.8  60 +19.0 14.9 00000 
5777 099 +13.5  70 +19.0 14.9 00000 
6218 099 +17.7  80 +19.0 14.9 00000 
6653 099 +22.3  80 +19.1 14.9 00000 
6944 099 +24.2  70 +20.0 14.9 00000 
6218 100 +24.7  60 ECU.  14.0 00000 
5437 100 +24.2  70 +13.8 rich 00005 
5630 100 +22.3  70 +14.0 14.0 00000 
5717 100 +22.3  80 +13.9 14.7 00000 
6082 100 +23.3  80 +18.0 15.2 00000 
6161 100 +24.2  70 +18.0 14.9 00000 
6325 100 +24.7  70 +18.1 15.2 00000 
6548 100 +26.1  70 +18.3 15.2 00000 
6858 100 +24.7  80 +19.0 15.2 00000 
7032 100 +25.1  70 +19.0 15.5 00000 
7153 100 +25.6  70 +19.0 15.2 00000 
7309 100 +25.1  70 +19.0 15.2 00000 
6301 101 +24.7  60 ECU.  15.5 00000 
5611 101 +22.3  60 +18.6 lean 00000 
5787 101 +20.9  70 +18.0 14.0 00000 
5807 101 +20.9  80 +17.7 15.2 00000 
6049 101 +23.3  80 +17.7 15.5 00000 
6060 101 +26.1  80 +18.0 15.7 00000 
6253 057 +27.4  80 ECU.  15.5 00000 
5807 002 +23.3  10 ECU.  15.7 00001 
5120 002 +13.5  10 ECU.  15.7 00000 
4415 002  +3.3  00 ECU.  14.9 00000 
4240 002  -6.0  00 ECU.  15.7 00000 
4187 002 -11.6  00 ECU.  15.5 00000 
4140 002 -12.1  00 ECU.  lean 00000
It doesn't seem to be knocking until I shift. That's why I'm assuming it's the backfire.

Running the car on ignition cut is a temporary thing. I'm doing it out of curiosity as to how the car reacts differently to the two setups.
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:48 AM   #2
KevinG
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back fire makes sense... IIRC all the knock sensor measures is noise
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Old 11-30-2007, 11:42 PM   #3
hybooststi
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you wanna blow your car up???? ignition cut is for nitrous and inj cut is what you should be using. its flat foot knock and there are a couple tricks to get rid of , im actually in the process of doing the same thing[ trying to get rid of ffs-knock] . i hear it kills the trap speeds being that it pulls timing, so good luck man.

k.c.
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:19 AM   #4
ride5000
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you've got two options:

1. switch to injector cut
2. dumb down the knock sensitivity in the LC/FFS rpm range.

let me ask you a question... do you have any traction at all launching the car while pulling >20psi and 5.0mafv?
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:35 AM   #5
Teh Legacy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000 View Post
you've got two options:

1. switch to injector cut
2. dumb down the knock sensitivity in the LC/FFS rpm range.

let me ask you a question... do you have any traction at all launching the car while pulling >20psi and 5.0mafv?
I've never launched the car using Ignition cut, so I'm not sure. I'm going to assume it would just blow the tires off, though.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:17 PM   #6
Teh Legacy
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Bump, anyone else?
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Old 12-07-2007, 11:44 AM   #7
Ralliart4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hybooststi View Post
you wanna blow your car up???? ignition cut is for nitrous and inj cut is what you should be using. its flat foot knock and there are a couple tricks to get rid of , im actually in the process of doing the same thing[ trying to get rid of ffs-knock] . i hear it kills the trap speeds being that it pulls timing, so good luck man.

k.c.
Motec, Gems, Autronic, Haltec and AEM if im not mistaken all from what i have seen use ignition cut to run LC, FF and ALS. So how is it so suddenly terrible for anybody to use? Im not being coy really i want to know. Im really curious.

I ran Motec M800 on one of my previous cars (Evo III) with ALC and LC enabled and had no problems.. with street or competition environments.
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Old 12-07-2007, 02:11 PM   #8
Gethin
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The Scooby is quite sensitive IMHO to ignition cut and can destroy shims, valves etc in a hurry. IMHO dont use it unless you are planning a rebuild soon. Fuel cut is quite effective and safer. I worked at a rally shop last year and a customer came in with a Bee R ignition cut module installed unbeknown to us, a fireball or two later, his car got progrssively worse and shortly thereafter he needed a new engine (STi). The other ECU's you mention are "motorsport" setups which are more advanced than the UTEC. The EVO is a different kettle of fish.

Just my 2c
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Old 12-08-2007, 12:11 AM   #9
Ralliart4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gethin View Post
The Scooby is quite sensitive IMHO to ignition cut and can destroy shims, valves etc in a hurry. IMHO dont use it unless you are planning a rebuild soon. Fuel cut is quite effective and safer. I worked at a rally shop last year and a customer came in with a Bee R ignition cut module installed unbeknown to us, a fireball or two later, his car got progrssively worse and shortly thereafter he needed a new engine (STi). The other ECU's you mention are "motorsport" setups which are more advanced than the UTEC. The EVO is a different kettle of fish.

Just my 2c
Fair enough i will take that under advisement.
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Old 12-08-2007, 11:10 AM   #10
cdvma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gethin View Post
The Scooby is quite sensitive IMHO to ignition cut and can destroy shims, valves etc in a hurry.
Depends on the motor. Things like shim under/over bucket are important. IIRC with the '04 motors Subaru went to shim under bucket so no danger of spitting those into the oil pan.

I still vote for fuel cut anyway, its just less "nasty".
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