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Old 12-03-2007, 03:24 AM   #1
shum_87
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Default dear tuning gods: when is a tune in order?

as I'm thinking more towards the future, when should the car be tuned?

taking my car, as an example: I only have a sri, and soon to have borla headers and custom sti exhaust. however, I might be picking up a set of lightweight pulleys and looking in the distant future, camshafts, valves, valve springs, spark plugs, spark plug wires, and throttle body spacer.

I've seen in threads that even for a sti that an intake, exhaust, u/p or d/p requires tuning. that got me thinking.

any comments would be nice
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:27 AM   #2
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most of the guys just do engine swap as its a good baseline to make more power.



.02
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:33 AM   #3
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Your car would run fine with no tuning, however if you did get some tuning you would pick up around 15-30hp depending on your mods. If you know how to tune, then a Perfect Power is good. If you dont know how to tune get an I-speed Reflash according to your mod list.
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veightkiller View Post
most of the guys just do engine swap as its a good baseline to make more power.
You can pick up used wrx motors pretty darn cheap
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Old 12-03-2007, 03:36 AM   #5
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I have a 2005 WRX bottom end that you can HAVE if you want to come pick it up from my house.
offer stands to anyone who wants it.
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Old 12-03-2007, 04:23 AM   #6
shum_87
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ahh..the n/a build vs. swap debate...haha

I've thought about going turbo for a long time, but I'm certain to keep her n/a. I also don't have to the means of dumping a huge load of money for a swap right now either.

would it be bad for the engine if I don't tune though? too lean or too rich are not good...
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Old 12-03-2007, 04:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shum_87 View Post
ahh..the n/a build vs. swap debate...haha

I've thought about going turbo for a long time, but I'm certain to keep her n/a. I also don't have to the means of dumping a huge load of money for a swap right now either.

would it be bad for the engine if I don't tune though? too lean or too rich are not good...
The sooner it goes, the sooner u can swap. That's how I look at it.. lol
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:12 AM   #8
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start saving your pennies for a swap. n/a build is expensive, with minimal results. definitely not worth the money in my opinion. to answer your question, you probably don't need tuning with your basic upgrades. but without tuning, these upgrades do very little as i am sure you've realized. to fully see the upgrades potential, a tune is definitely in order. once you start messing around with the motor, then tuning becomes much more important.

check out rallitek pp6 and i-speed reflash.

but i say leave the n/a builds for the honda boys.
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:26 AM   #9
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NA is not a bad way to go, just not much light at the end of the tunnel. I did the full NA build on my RS. Intake, full exhaust, PP6= 120-130ish at the wheels. Intake, Full exhaust, PP6 and cams = 140ish whp, and Intake, Full exhaust, PP6, cams and head work = garanteed 170whp. If you add high compression forged pistons (11.5) =190whp. I have already done all this and now Im turboed and see the light. Nitrous is probably the cheapest horsepower and despite what most will say, it is safe to run on a stock block.
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDsub View Post
NA is not a bad way to go, just not much light at the end of the tunnel. I did the full NA build on my RS. Intake, full exhaust, PP6= 120-130ish at the wheels. Intake, Full exhaust, PP6 and cams = 140ish whp, and Intake, Full exhaust, PP6, cams and head work = garanteed 170whp. If you add high compression forged pistons (11.5) =190whp. I have already done all this and now Im turboed and see the light. Nitrous is probably the cheapest horsepower and despite what most will say, it is safe to run on a stock block.
That is the worst advice I have ever heard for an N/A Subie.

Do NOT Nitrous unless you want a very short engine span. Your WHP numbers are way off as you haven't stated what dyno you are talking about. On a Dyno Dynamics your 190 final number would be more like 150-160 at the most. I haven't seen any NA builds over 210-225 Crank HP.

Nitrous is a HIDEOUS idea, the engine is will not last with either nitrous OR turbo'd.

To the OP, f you want to stay N/A but get some decent power gains, get Equal Length Headers, Borla will just give you more grumble with minor gains. Get a highflow cat and not too big diameter cat-back or header back piping. I'd do cams as well and call it a day, if you start getting into an engine build you are better off putting that money towards a swap.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:22 PM   #11
AWDsub
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If you dont have a clue what your talking about then you should probably not add in advice. I have done every stage of a NA build and all those numbers are accurate according to a Dynojet Dyno which is a common dyno. I assume you havent read "Zero to Hero" in Subiesport Magazine as their NA RS project car was based off mine build. Nitrous is safe in moderation and a good setup. I ran a wet 75 shot for over 40,000 miles on a stock RS block with 120,000 miles on it. And when I first put it on my RS, I used it so much that I filled it up once a week during drag racing season. Did I blow my motor? Yes, I finally put a 100 shot on and after 2 months I filled it over 13 times and constantly drove around with it on and then finally burned a hole in the piston when I was holding it down in 5th gear for over a minute. So Yes nitrous is safe in moderation and your RS block is rather durable as I have tested.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:55 PM   #12
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I suppose my three years at Rocket Rally dealing almost solely with Subaru's does not give me the right to express my opinion and caution someone towards safety when a member who is clearly NOT concerned with it come to the board and posts that Nitrous is the way to go on a stock block.

If you were willing to WARRANTY a nitrous set up on the OP's stock block then I will retract my comments...if not, my point is extremely valid and stands.

At the shop we would run very high boost through stock JDM blocks on the rally cars with the knowledge that the lifespan is limited...but would we have pushed the same amount of boost through a customers block who had just spent $20K on a JDM swap into their RS....NO....we would push a safe amount of boost so that they could enjoy great power AND longevity.
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:17 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tora View Post
I suppose my three years at Rocket Rally dealing almost solely with Subaru's does not give me the right to express my opinion and caution someone towards safety when a member who is clearly NOT concerned with it come to the board and posts that Nitrous is the way to go on a stock block.

If you were willing to WARRANTY a nitrous set up on the OP's stock block then I will retract my comments...if not, my point is extremely valid and stands.

At the shop we would run very high boost through stock JDM blocks on the rally cars with the knowledge that the lifespan is limited...but would we have pushed the same amount of boost through a customers block who had just spent $20K on a JDM swap into their RS....NO....we would push a safe amount of boost so that they could enjoy great power AND longevity.
I think your missing a nitrous horror story to prove your point...
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:05 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tora View Post
I suppose my three years at Rocket Rally dealing almost solely with Subaru's does not give me the right to express my opinion
I thought you were the secretary there?













ouch.
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:50 PM   #15
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I thought you were the secretary there?
+1...

Quote:
Originally Posted by tora View Post
but would we have pushed the same amount of boost through a customers block who had just spent $20K on a JDM swap into their RS....NO
20k for a swap...
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:16 PM   #16
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+1...
don't drag me into your war, yo!
tora is a b&b'r, and that's a b&b joke, straight up. It's not a knock to anyone personally, publically, or professionally.

that is all.
now here is a dancing banana.

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Old 12-03-2007, 07:24 PM   #17
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I'm a TORA Supporter

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Old 12-03-2007, 07:26 PM   #18
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nothing against tora at all, didnt mean it in a bad way. just sayin, its not like he was tuning cars there.

the next part was a rocket rally beak tho
you know, i am always given em some verbal.
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:46 PM   #19
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Old 12-04-2007, 12:31 AM   #20
L_Box
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tora View Post
That is the worst advice I have ever heard for an N/A Subie...

...Nitrous is a HIDEOUS idea, the engine is will not last with either nitrous OR turbo'd.
Wow, seriously? I know you're highly respected on this forum because of the experience you have working at RR. But what's with the attitude? It's not like he told the guy to throw on a dry 100 shot and expect to get another 200,000 miles out of his motor. Everyone's entitled to their opinions, i guess. I just don't see why some people feel the need to be so abrasive about it
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Old 12-04-2007, 12:58 AM   #21
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Old 12-04-2007, 01:50 AM   #22
shum_87
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thanks to everyone for their input

expecially to tora!

close thread please!
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