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Old 06-05-2001, 08:33 PM   #1
Supra Turbo
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Question Audi A4 1.8T vs WRX

Okay, I know this has most likely been gone over before but the search function is dead.

Has anyone looked at the Audi 1.8T Quattro vs the WRX? The Audi with Quattro runs about 27K, does anyone think it's worth the $$$? I still havn't found a stick to drive, all they have around here are Tiptronics. Anyone owned an A4 before?

How about aftermarket upgrades? The chip and exhaust seem to be the most popular upgrades... what is the expected reliablity with a chip?

Thanks for any info,
Abraham in Michigan


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Old 06-05-2001, 08:36 PM   #2
codemunky
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Audi's are nice... But my friend with an A4 1.8T wants to get rid of it to get the WRX. He already test drove the WRX. Does that answer your question?
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Old 06-05-2001, 08:53 PM   #3
Bobalouy
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A stock 1.8t sucks it's slower than the 2.5rs, but it's an awsome engine you can bolt on a new turbo for like $1000 and get it up to 250 hp. That would be a hard decision.

Anthony C,
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Old 06-05-2001, 08:56 PM   #4
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Audis are more luxurious, WRXs are more fun.

JC
My opinion, yours may vary.

[This message has been edited by JC (edited June 05, 2001).]
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Old 06-05-2001, 09:04 PM   #5
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Hmm, Subaru or Audi? Since you're asking a Subaru crowd, guess what answer you're gonna get!

Mike
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Old 06-05-2001, 09:45 PM   #6
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This is just my $.02 but I used to have an Audi GT Coupe and it was a great car until the warranty expired, then things started to go bad and the bills got steep. Audi makes a good car but expensive to maintain once they reach an old age!
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Old 06-05-2001, 10:42 PM   #7
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my friend has an A4 1.8T. while it's definitely more luxurious (and not as controversial looking), it's pretty slow compared to the wrx. but the chip will help, and it is fairly reliable.

but yes, audis can get expensive once the warranty expires. you should probably check out www.audiworld.com and www.neuspeed.com for more information.

for the sleeper element, a4 wins hands down.

[This message has been edited by vicster (edited June 05, 2001).]
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Old 06-05-2001, 11:21 PM   #8
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do you want comfort/style or brutal power and a total crap interior? Sold my 98 A4 1.8tqms++ for the wrx. Miss the stereo
and the computer, thats it. Yes they had
the same max hp and simlar mass. But the
older Audi yellow kicks the scoobys ass.
(tweaked my a4) 98 was ~30k us out the door
same as the rex. optioned my ass off on both+financing+tax+title+plates.

drive them both.

iw
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Old 06-05-2001, 11:42 PM   #9
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I would suggest, having a WRX wagon, that the "total crap interior" comment is a bit excessive. The WRX interior is certainly spare, with little concession to luxury.

But as a driver's cockpit, the WRX is first-rate. Yes, the Audi has plenty more luxe, but if I had one, I'd get tired of seeing my car coming toward me every other block.

The interior is every bit as nice as my Legacy, except for the thin headliner, but who ever looks up in their car, to notice that? Both are fine cars, and both are quite moddable. But the WRX is a more direct car to drive.

Both are fun.

Kevin
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Old 06-06-2001, 03:22 AM   #10
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I think Audi reliability has improved a great deal since the days of the Audi GT Coupe. There is no comparison in terms of the quality of materials used for the interior and the over all build quality is better than the WRX. The engine is a great one in that you can easily get 240 reliable hp out of it with out changing the turbo. If you change the turbo you can easily attain 320 hp or so. And there are no issues with the Audi such as the weak transmission as with the WRX. Some people add a stroker kit to the 1.8T and get up over 400 hp and there are still no transmission problems. But to get performance equal to the WRX you will need to spend quite a bit more money.
I am generally happy with my WRX so far but only time will tell how well it holds up.
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Old 06-06-2001, 03:38 AM   #11
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How much is an Audi A4 Wagon with 1.8T? That's the question... or better yet, is there a VW Passat Wagon with 1.8T and 4motion and how much is it?

FWIW IMO most modern German cars have issues with electronics...

While the WRX tranny has been called the "glass tranny" in WRC circles, I don't see how daily street driving (even spirited daily street driving) compares to the rigors of competition rally racing...
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Old 06-06-2001, 03:59 AM   #12
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Have you trolled this question in Audiworld?

Really, why do people ask this question here? Do they think we are going to say, no, dude, don't get a lousy Subaru, buy an Audi.

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Old 06-06-2001, 04:34 AM   #13
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I have a 2001 A4 1.8T for my daily driver.

Stock for stock, it is faster than a RS. And the WRX is faster than the A4. That's not saying however that just like the Impreza, you can't tweak the A4.

You can go to chip-tuning.com and have a Wetterauer chip fitted to your ECU, then you can upgrade the Turbo if you wish to, to take it well beyond the 227Hp mark of the "stock" WRX.

So Powerwise, the A4 starts behind but can easily make it up with mods. Same goes for the WRX that can make it up to 280+ HP as well.

Turbo wise, the lag on the WRX is huge compared to the A4, and the response is much smoother on the A4. Driveability is obviously not as direct on the A4, which is something that's missed. Even with the sports suspension and uprated wheels/tires, it still doesn't come close to the WRX.

As for interior, well the tables are turned. The Subaru interior are "mediocre" when compared to the Audi. But it's actually quite good compared to other cars in its same pricerange. Let's face it though, you're not buying an Impreza for its interior, while the Audi interior might be a factor when buying this higher priced vehicle.

The AWD system on the Audi is also superior to the stock AWD system on the Subaru. You'd have to swap out your Impreza front/rear diff for some mechanical LSD ones (Kaaz, Quaife) to get a comparable system that the Audi has with the Torsen diffs (Quattro system). This also result is less power being lost in the drivetrain.
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Old 06-06-2001, 04:49 AM   #14
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I wouldn't buy a turbo Audi again.
God Bless the Audi Advantage Warranty-- since the car was in the shop almost weekly for blown hoses, leaks, cracked heads...

But the final straw was the timing belt tensioner failure and head crash right out of warranty. 2,000 miles out of warranty.

The A4 was fast, and fun to drive but I cannot justify paying $400 to $1000 for every g-damn visit to the shop-- who became uninterested in my satisfaction since I was not a buyer from the 'new store'.

In all, the RS has been reliable, non-leaking and fun.

I know at least 2 other Audi drivers who have defected to Subaru. That's just from the North Texas Audi Group.
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Old 06-06-2001, 04:58 AM   #15
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My little sister has the 1.8T and I have to do the maint. on it.

First the numbers as tested by Shiv on a Dyno:

Dyno Info

Stock Audi S4: 165 wheel hp
-with chip upgrade (18psi): 205 wheel hp

Stock Audi A4 1.8T
(8psi): 91 wheel hp
-with chip upgrade (18psi): 115 wheel hp

Stock MY99 2.5RS:
95 wheel hp
-with Intake/Exhaust/AFC: 118 wheel hp
-with Minnam Stage II (7.5psi): 183 wheel hp

Stock Lancer EVO IV.5 (16psi): 190 wheel hp

---

Now for personal notes (opinions and observations):

Oil change rated from 1-10, 1 being easiest. 1.8T - 6.
EJ25 - 1.

Average number of problems per year req. dealer intervention.
1.8T engine: 5
EJ25 engine: 0

YMMV
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Old 06-06-2001, 05:08 AM   #16
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Yeah, Audi drivers are defecting to Subaru in droves. Audi's just fall apart soon after the warranty expires.
I guess you can't expect to get unbiased opinions when you ask a question like this on a Subaru board.
My Audi turbo never gave me any problems whatsoever. It was rock solid reliable. And I knew of many others who had the same experience as me. I knew of one guy who had 320,000 miles on his Audi 200 turbo with out ever having opened up the engine, original turbo as well. Anecdotal stories are a dime a dozen and you can find them to support any position you want to take.
The bottom line between the Audi A4 1.8T and the WRX is that the WRX has better performance/handling while the Audi has more refinement. Take your pick. Also keep in mind the A4 will be completely new this fall and it seems it is moving even further upscale.
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Old 06-06-2001, 06:14 AM   #17
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Not to sound like I hate Audis and would rather push a GL10 than drive an A8, but I still like the NA Audis.

My '83 5000s was a hoss. Over 150k miles, abused by a high school punk who'd seen too many rally videos.

My '88 5000s quattro was the same. A bad wheel bearing at 60k, that's it.

The 1.8T engine it not as robust as the old 5 cyl. You can get 300hp from the 1.8T, but the 5 cyl could get 600.
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Old 06-06-2001, 07:05 AM   #18
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I happen to be one of Jason's friends who recently defected (partially) from Audi. I've been fairly active in Audi circles for a while (FL and now TX), new to Subaru ownership but having come from Oregon certainly I was VERY familiar.
My deciding factors:
WRX is compared with the best driving cars in the world. A4 is not. If the RS4 had come to the US I would own one. I cancelled an S4 Avant order for the WRX 4dr because my needs changed from what Audi offers in service, warranty, amenities, beauty and performance to what Subaru offers in rigidity, handling and performance prospects.
We have other cars to use for their various niches, if I had to choose only ONE I would also have a very difficult time at the moment.

- if you are considering an A4, WAIT! October or November sees the arrival of the new platform which is greatly enhanced over the current US offerings. Audi hired (stole) Jos Van As from BMW Handling who is now head of vehicle dynamics at Ingolstadt. The new platform is said to be "best in class" in the handling department. Of course all this adds to the reason I left the A4 platform, weight.

James
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Old 06-06-2001, 07:51 AM   #19
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Living in NOVA you will see a big Audi crowd. Most of my friends drive Audis. I have been to several Audi meets and have seen the problems and perks of owning the car. The performance increase from an upgraded chip alone is awesome. (check out www.giacusa.com for dynos of the 1.8t) BUT ppl who have been doing this mod have been blowing the diverter valve's. All of my friends who have chipped their audis have had to replace their diverter valves (approx 150$ a piece.. 300 for a pair for the Bi-turbos) and as discussed they have all had other problems. The audi dealers in this area are overwhelmed with service back log. Many of them are weaseling there way out of work by trying to void warranties for the silliest of things. (using non-audi break fluid) the only way for my roomate to get work done on his TT is to take it up to Pennsylvania. The chipped cars are VERY fast... especially the S4's

I'll skip out on leather, sunroof, heated seats, nifty-red interior lights for a car that is reliable.

--aaron

p.s. I REALLY hope Subaru stands by their marketing. I have never owned a subaru nor has any of my friends/family. They decided to market to a younger crowd with this car. If I have to print out SEMA text on how its illegal for them to void my warranty for a non-OEM air filter I will be very disappointed.
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Old 06-06-2001, 09:30 AM   #20
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Well, might as well throw in my part to this. My friend owns a 2001 A4 1.8T w/the S4 suspension upgrade. He says if he knew about the WRX at the time, he woulda waited for it. The A4 is a beautiful car, interior and exterior, but it's not as sporty, and in the long run it gets a lot more expensive. It all depends what you're going after as others said, luxury w/some performance, or performance w/some luxury? Personally, I'd go w/the WRX, and I don't even own a Subaru yet...
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Old 06-06-2001, 09:41 AM   #21
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I know this post has fallen off, but for the sake of completeness, I finally got a look at my bro's maintenance records yesterday. My brother has a '98 A4 1.8T and I have the 2K 2.5RS coupe. His car currently has over 58k miles while I've hit 49k:

2.5RS: Cracked windshield - being replaced under no deductible insurance policy, stone chips in paint on hood, water condensation in headlight assembly - replaced at dealership under warranty, failure of coil pack for cylinder #1 - replaced at dealership under warranty, failure of first oxygen sensor - replaced at dealership under warranty, brackets holding driver's window in place came loose over time - fixed at dealership under warranty, rubber molding on driver's side door has folded in on itself over the past two years of ownership causing wind noise at highway speeds, secondary latch on hood not engaging properly. These last two items are being fixed at my current scheduled maintenance stop.

A4 1.8T: Air bag light went on - replaced affected items under warranty, Check Engine light - some part in the fuel system replaced under warranty, multiple complaints about dead speaker in door - repaired under warranty, Heater in passenger outside mirror stopped working - repaired under warranty, Received car back from valet w/ burnt smell in interior and car refused to go into gear then smoke started to come from under hood - towed to dealership and fixed under warranty

Since my bro's records are nowhere near as organized as mine, there's a possibility I missed a few items, but this should be a good start for comparison.

[ June 12, 2001: Message edited by: Ryouga ]
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Old 06-06-2001, 11:55 AM   #22
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I agree that the Audi 5-cylinder engine was a great one. And yes, the 2.2 liter turbo motor could put out over 600 hp with the stock bottom end. I had a conversation with Jo Hoppen about that and he said he NEVER saw an engine failure in his days with Audi Motorsport other than if an oil line broke. He called these engines virtually indestructible. I am very sorry I got rid of my '94 S4. A very different type of car than the WRX of course.
I don't think either of the engines that Audi is using right now are quite as robust as that but they are still pretty damned strong engines.
As to canceling an order for an S4 Avant for a WRX, to each his own, but if I were willing to spend the money for an S4 right now I wouldn't give the WRX a second thought. Now of course I'd love to have both but if I can only pick one, it's the S4.
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Old 06-06-2001, 03:40 PM   #23
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Thanks for all the info, that is exactly what I wanted. The Subaru dealer in town is a horrible, and they have the service center I would be using if I were to get a Subaru. There is a dealer 1.5 hours away that is great, but I'd rather not be driving that far to get dealer service when there is one only 8 minutes away. Subaru REALLY needs to get a handle on their Sales/Service/Repair people. This dealer is a Cadillac/Olds/Subaru and they said right away that Subaru is only 20% of their sales.

Since you're asking a Subaru crowd, guess what answer you're gonna get!
I know that... that's why I asked here. I wanted to get opinions from people who had owned both, and I did.

if you are considering an A4, WAIT!
I also read that the A4 will be all new for next year. Although being Audi, I can't imagine it will get cheaper. Wait and see I guess.

I REALLY hope Subaru stands by their marketing.
AMEN AMEN AMEN! That is the main reason I'm waiting to buy anything. I have a 1989 Toyota Supra that has been running 300 crank HP (220 stock) for 9 years without a single problem. I know I may be lucky, but I like to think it's quality design and good maintanence. I would hate to buy a new car of ANY brand to have it break repeatedly.

I want to mod any car I get, not go crazy or anything. Just exhaust, intake, boost controller that type of stuff. I'll be watching what happens to all you REXes out there, and how Subaru treats you in service. I hope the 1st and 2nd gear problems aren't going to be the norm. I want to Auto-X whatever car I get.

Okay, blathering on too long now.
Thanks for reading, and Mod away!!!
Abraham in Michigan
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Old 06-07-2001, 12:52 AM   #24
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Actually, Siv P. everyones favorite SCC project /mpreza, also does a project in European Car of an A4 1.8T.
He likes his.
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