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Old 12-05-2007, 06:50 PM   #1
wrxrex
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Default Newbie question about data logging... ECUexplorer

With K&N short ram intake, I am seeing peak g/s of 300, which is about 12 g/s higher than OEM intake. Also, Air/Fuel learning of 9.38, which is higher than OEM intake's 7.03.

Car was originally protuned with OEM intake, but should I be concerned about above values? Here is a data log showing IT and KC:

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Old 12-05-2007, 08:16 PM   #2
wrxrex
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I ran data log again today and this time KC is staying flat at 6 instead of 8.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:47 PM   #3
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bump... can someone please comment?
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:05 PM   #4
wage0052
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Maybe you should post in the Engine Management section.

Also, you're going to need to include a lot more info for anyone to tell you if anything is wrong. Pull a full log and post that...along with your car MY and mods, EM, and any additional details.
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:13 PM   #5
wrxrex
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Air/Fuel learning of 9.38 vs. 7.03; is this significant change to be worried about? what other additional data do you need?

2002 WRX 5sp
VF34 @ 18.5psi protuned, TBE, ported exhaust manifold, pulley, STI TMIC
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Old 12-05-2007, 10:37 PM   #6
quazimoto
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300 g/s is the MAF limit.It's possible you could be seeing more.You gotta wideband?
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:00 PM   #7
wrxrex
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no, I don't have a wideband.... is air/fuel learning values of 9.38 really accurate? change from 7.03 to 9.38 seems pretty significant...
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:01 AM   #8
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AFR Learning is in percent. So it's adding about 2% more fuel than it was before. You haven't provided nearly enough data to make a real diagnosis, but here's a guess. The new intake is either exceeding the MAF limit, or it's improperly designed and causing the MAF to read incorrectly. Because of this, there's more air making it into the cylinders than the ECU thinks, causing the car to run lean. Running lean can cause knock, hence the timing retard you see. The car is attempting to get back to proper AFR by adding a little more fuel.

However, because of how little data you provided, that's a guess.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:18 AM   #9
wrxrex
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Here are the data logs:

K&N


OEM intake
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:23 AM   #10
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first of all, warm the car up before you beat on it! Your coolant temps were only in the 80s! In addition, the fact that your engine wasn't up to temp means a lot of temp-based compensations were being applied. In other words, the logs are pretty useless.

Get the car up to full operating temperature, and log again.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:24 AM   #11
wrxrex
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car was fully warmed up... I have coolant bypass mod if that explains anything? also, OEM Intake data was collected from this summer.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:30 AM   #12
wrxrex
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here is a screen shot of one additional log from this evening. Above "K&N" data log is from 11/29/07.

KC is now down from 8 to 6.


Last edited by wrxrex; 12-06-2007 at 12:36 AM.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:41 AM   #13
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Coolant bypass mod shouldn't affect the reported temp at all.

So, before you can work on tuning you car, you need to fix the problem. As long as the ECU thinks the coolant is that cold, it'll be using some compensation tables to change fueling and timing to work with the low temps. For instance, my car is doing strange things so long as the coolant temps are below 140 for tip in, 68 for the timing, 158 for idle, and 32 for OL/CL transition.

In other words, until you coolant temp reads up in the normal range (~180 from what I've seen so far), you can't rely on the engine to be doing what you expect. So you need to fix the mis-read first.

As far as your KC changing, don't read much into that. KC is a synthesis of a couple of factors, some of which change with load and rpm cell, potentially having nothing to do with the presence of knock at that moment.
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Old 12-06-2007, 12:46 AM   #14
wrxrex
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williaty, what's the indication of "knock" event? is it something I can see from the log? btw, coolant temperature is in C. 83C is about 180F.
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:33 AM   #15
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God, we're getting into the blind leading the blonde here As soon as you've got your 10 posts, you should start a thread in the tuning forum about this because you're starting to reach the edges of my knowledge...

Knock is indicated in several possible ways. One is the presence of Feedback Knock Correction (FBKC), which is always either 0 (no knock or not in FBKC mode) or negative (in FBKC mode and recent knock. Another is a downward change to Ignition Advance Multiplier (IAM). Dropping values of IAM mean that the ECU is in rough correction mode and has recently detected knock. The third way is a downward change in the stored Fine Learning Knock Correction table value. FLKC can be positive or negative. Because you can't directly see the FLKC table, seeing FLKC change in a log is not proof of knock because you may have just switched cells in the table.
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:41 AM   #16
wrxrex
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Thanks. Question I need answered is how do I go about testing whether K&N SRI is leaning out the A/F mixture? Is it something I can determine by looking at ECUExplorer data log?
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:47 AM   #17
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Use Enginuity and AFR Sensor #1 will show you the actual AFR value the ECU is seeing. In closed loop, it'll be locked to 14.7, so you need to look at AF Learning #1 and AF Correction #1. Substantial positive values for either of those represent significant enrichment.

Seriously though, as long as your coolant temp is reading 100* low, nothing is going to work out right. You need to fix the problem before you tune the car.
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Old 12-06-2007, 01:54 AM   #18
wrxrex
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my coolant temp is normal... 82C equates to 180F.
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Old 12-06-2007, 02:01 AM   #19
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You know, I even checked that by looking at your pressure and vehicle speed columns, I thought those were the standard, not metric, units.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:23 AM   #20
BugeyedMonster
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And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is why metric makes everything easier. I believe the mars rover got effed due to a similar lack of conversion.

Btw, i'm not directing this at the folks in this forum. I just think it's silly that the world in general hasn't conformed to one single standard of measurement as opposed to the current division, which leads to the above easy misread of "holy hell, your coolant is 100 degrees low". You'd think the program would specify celsius.
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Old 12-06-2007, 03:36 AM   #21
williaty
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Oh, definitely metric ftw. Stupid Imperial units all being arbitrarily spaced from each other.
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