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Old 01-27-2002, 03:34 AM   #1
Stallion
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Default Another Subaru Of America/ 2002 WRX Nightmare

Well, unfortunately I have run into a serious problem regarding my WRX. I ahve posted before, but SOA made their decision and I wanted a fresh post to explain everything. I beg you to listen to my story so that you all might help me get as much exposure as possible to as many WRX owners as possible regarding SOA not covering my transmission under warranty. Just so you know, my car has no power modifications (only soa body kit, wheels, and the defi gauge pod) and has never been abused, powershifted, clutch dumped, or any other stupid crap people do when they dont know how detrimental these things are to the WRX tranny. I bought my car on 3/12/01 and on 7/26/01 the car had a problem with the reverse gear blowing as I was backing out of my driveway (no lie, my brother saw/heard it happen) and because SOA did not have parts to fix the problem they put a whole new tranny in the car. This transmission was a bit different from the original in the way it shifted, particularly into first while moving. I ignored this because of so many long-time subaru owners saying it was normal. But on 12/1/01 I began to have a grind on the upshift from 3rd to 4th. Thats when I knew I had to take the car in to be repaired. Well, the dealer was hesitant to fix the car from that day on, and eventually SOA got involved. I finally got the tranny torn down (risking having to pay for the repairs pending SOA's decision) and they decided yesterday that they were not covering the transmission under my warranty because of damage to the gears. I was able to look at the gears myself at the dealership, and also brought my own mechanic with me for a second opinion. The first gear hub teeth seemed slightly scarred on the tips(enough to feel), which was probably resultant of the car not going into first unless completly stopped (the few times I accidentlly tried to downshift at 5 mph or so). 2nd and 3rd were ok and the hub teeth on 4th were ever so slightly nicked (not enough to feel) from the month or so of driving with the grind in the upshift. 5th was also ok. Subaru said the damage was a result of powershifting (but could not proove it), and because they "wont continue repairing transmissions they *BELIEVE* to be abused". So now I need to pay $2000 for the replacement of 1st-4th gears and all materials and labor in order to get my car back (or I get a mechanics lein). My personal mechanic said 1st and 3rd gears were only slightly marked and the others did not look or feel abused by any means (no burring, mushrooming, ect...).

Sorry this is so long, but I need to find out from every wrx owner on this site (if thats possible) if they have any kind of tranny problem and exatly what it is. SOA says nobody else is having these problems and I dont believe that. They are accusing me of doing all of these things that they have no evidence for, and being very rude. If anyone even knows of someone with any probelms let me know. I hope if I have some evidence of this happening in other cars it may help my chances in court (the only way I can be reimbursed), and I am sure the attorney general will need this kind of information along with what I am turning in to them. SOA says they look at every car on a "case by case basis" and therefore other cars problems have no relevance to mine. Yet they say one reason they are not warranting the repairs is because no one else has a problem like mine so it must be my driving. I love my car and never abused it, I really do know better and respect my car more than that. Every one of my friends are bewildered that SOA would make such accusations because they know how I love, respect, and drive my car, and can vouch that I do not drive it abusively. I would greatly apprecieate any help anyone can offer. I Thank all of you for any help! It would be greatly aprecieated! I have the damaged gears in my possession and am in the process of gettting several other professional opinions from transmission specialists on the condition of the gears. I will keep everyone updated and again, thank you for any input!
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Old 01-27-2002, 04:15 AM   #2
zmw
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I pretty much got a complete transmission rebuild on my WRX for a very similar issue. My car was purchased 05/14/01 and in early january was in the shop for 5 days to replace 1,2,3rd gears, + reverse and reverse idler (whatever that is) 4th and 5th were determined to be near new - they also did a complete synchro pack.

SOA has to prove abuse for them to deny a warranty claim or you must have a mod that could have caused that problem - Get a lawyer involved because basically they are telling you you abused a vehicle which did not get abused. I will gladly fax you all my receipts for a near identical issue, and in fact the new transmission while stiffer and feels more secure does not shift any easier or more gently. I do believe there is an inherant flaw in the 5MT design for the subies... it's really a very poor transmission.

Keep in mind when I took mine in i DID have power mods and my dealer didn't hesitate one bit. I have a CAI, exhaust (cat back only) lightweight pullies and a chip...

The transmission is the same as it was for the 98-01 RSs also, I personally know 3 people who have had issues with the MT, ironically the auto is solid as a rock up to 350hp applications.

-Z
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Old 01-27-2002, 04:19 AM   #3
zmw
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Also, I made sure I was very specific about explaining my problem, showing them WRX literature that states it has a fully synchromeshed 5MT and I asked them to describe that to me, then I proceeded to tell them that unless I double clutched or matched RPMs I was unable to shift into first at speeds greater than 5mph, and often experienced griding going into reverse from a parked position. There were even times that I could not shift into first at all, so I would have to clutch several times or shift as much as I could, let out the clutch a little to get it to grind a bit, then clutch again and force it in...... SOA (unless you are lying to us) has no reason to deny your claim - short of being out of warranty mileage or years (which we know is not true)

-Z
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Old 01-27-2002, 11:20 AM   #4
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1. Modern cars have "constant mesh" gears. You won't get chips on the gears themselves* by powershifting or trouble changing gears. What gets worn is the syncros and collars. So, they are giving you misinformation there if they are saying chipped or worn gear teeth is due to that.

(*except for reverse idler gears etc)

2. Have you spoken to someone from SOA directly? Or are you trusting what the dealer says that SOA says?

3. Have you written a letter to SOA - to the address in the warranty book?

4. Have you filed a lemon claim? Check your states lemon laws. If you go to arbitration SOA would have to prove their claim the car was abused.

Glenn
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Old 01-27-2002, 11:42 AM   #5
Jon [in CT]
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If SOA has refused to honor its new car warranty, then it seems you have little choice but to:
1) Pay for the repair yourself. Since you are paying, make sure that YOU retain possesion of all replaced parts.
2) Sue SOA to recover all associated costs, including legal fees.
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Old 01-27-2002, 12:00 PM   #6
Jon [in CT]
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Oh, I forgot to mention the most important thing you should do: Seek legal advise at once. In my not-an-attorney opinion refusing to fix a problem is tantamount to being unable to fix a problem. So Maryland's Lemon Law may apply. Read this and this pamphlet. According to the pamphlet
Quote:
There are other remedies available to a consumer under the Lemon Law. If the consumer cannot settle a dispute with the manufacturer out of court, the court may require the manufacturer to pay part or all of the consumer's attorney's fees if the consumer prevails in court. If the court finds that the manufacturer has acted in bad faith in failing to fulfill its obligations under the Lemon Law, the manufacturer may be ordered to pay the consumer up to $10,000, in addition to any other remedies ordered by the court. Furthermore, a violation of the Lemon Law by a car dealer or manufacturer is considered an "unfair and deceptive trade practice" and may subject the dealer or manufacturer to certain penalties under the Maryland Consumer Protection Act.

In addition to the Lemon Law, other areas of the law may help the consumer in a dispute concerning a new car. For example, under the Maryland Uniform Commercial Code, the consumer may be entitled to the benefit of certain implied warranties which are not contained in a written warranty.
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Old 01-27-2002, 12:04 PM   #7
Stallion
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Default no I am not lying

Believe you me, I have throughly discussed with SOA every minute detail of the two problems I was having (2nd to 1st downshift at any speed and 3rd to 4th upshift at over 4K rpm's) I have been dealing with my dealer service and parts director as well as the regional customer service rep (who apparently handles legal issues). The point they are stressing most, is that the first instance with the reverse gear breaking they *BELIEVED* to be abuse, saying I was at the track and missed fifth gear and "engaged" into reverse gear. Well, to my knowledge it is impossible to actually shift into reverse from going 100 some mph in 4th gear at 6500 RPM, and also a completly stock car does not shift into 5th at the track, they barely leave 3rd. So, they are now saying that because they *Believe* this transmission is also "abused" (yet have not one ounce of proof) they will not fix it because they are "not in the business of replacing abused trannys." WOW!, I am getting really PO'ed just writing this I will try and contact someone higher up in SOA on monday, I will also send in the auto repair complaint form I recieved from the state attorney general. I also have to go around to tranny shops and get some 3rd 4th and 5th opinions on the condition of the gears just so I have multiple mechanics backing me up. Also, the syncros had no wear at all on them, only the teeth on the gear hub (possibly from the syncros not working properly? duh?) which I believe I can prove the damage to the gears was because of a malufunction of the transmission and not anything I was responsible for. I drove the new tranny since august 2001 with the first gear thing which got worse untill I believe the syncros completly stopped functinoning, and therefore a few times I would gently try to engage first at a very low speed and get a grind. Same with the 3rd to 4th upshift, except it was malfunctioning for a shoter period of time and therefore the damage was less.

Question for transmission people who might be here. If the syncros are incorrectly lined with the hub teeth, and someone powershifts, wont the first damage be to the sycnros because the brass is so soft? My syncros were untouched. Also, you dont powershift down to first gear which was the most damaged. second and third did not look bad at all, only 4th which was slightly scratched and not bured to the touch like first is, which was where it would grind on the upshift.

Thank you guys for your concern, I will keep updating this thread as I find out more info. Does anyone know names of the CEO/Chairman/President of SOA? I would like to contact him (or them) if possible,as there probably arent many other people in the company who can overturn the decision.
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Old 01-27-2002, 12:11 PM   #8
Stallion
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Default

Jon, thank you for the information, That portion of the lemon law pamphlet is very interesting. I am going to contact a lawyer, as well as send in the attorney generals form. But I also need to gain as much evidence as possible to support my case. I have wasted so much time with this already it is ridiculous, and now it's only going to get worse, plus I will be out $2K by having the tranny repaired which might never be reimbursed.
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Old 01-27-2002, 01:08 PM   #9
armand1
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Definitely talk to a lawyer first thing -- they shouldn't charge much if at all for a general quick initial conversation. The really important thing is to make sure you get everything in writing -- telephone and personal conversations basically don't count in court unless you have evidence (like a tape, or a 3rd person who was there) to back up what you say, but written items are evidence. You need to make sure that you have written documents backing up every step of the process - your complaints to the dealers, their refusal to pay, opinions of experts, etc. Also, you need written evidence that points out the contradictions/errors in their reasoning.
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Old 01-27-2002, 04:19 PM   #10
GRWRX
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Did you drag race this car?
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Old 01-27-2002, 07:59 PM   #11
ANZAC_1915
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Quote:
If the syncros are incorrectly lined with the hub teeth, and someone powershifts, wont the first damage be to the sycnros because the brass is so soft?
I'd expect damage to both the brass and the synchro teeth on the gears if it had been powershifted. But I'm not a tranny expert.

If you go to court, arbitration, the burden of proof is on them.

Glenn
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Old 01-27-2002, 10:03 PM   #12
Stallion
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GRWRX- My car has never been raced in a competitive event, which according to the warranty is what would warrant refusal to fix my parts. But, is it not true that you, me, or anyone else could damage the tranny by themselves on regular roads. Is is also true that someone could race their car at the track and baby it down the 1/4 mile not damaging it at all. There are WRX owners pushing 300 crank hp who race their cars every weekend and never see any problems. I personally have never driven my completly stock car abusively, and yet I have multiple problems. Spirited driving, yes I drive the car spiritedly on occasion, what WRX owner doesnt. Isnt that why we opted for the 2.0L turbo and not the 2.5 NA. Why does Subaru even offer two levels of performance (three in other countries with the STI) if one is not to be driven differently than the other? Also, look at the commercials for the WRX and the way the driver shifts as it shows his hands and feet. If he were actually a customer, I am sure SOA would refuse coverage on his transmission work with such incriminating footage.

Glenn-That is exactly what I would think, yet there was no damage to the syncros, only the gear hub teeth (syncro teeth on the gears) and only obviously noticable on 1st and 4th which is where my problems were. Also before seeing the gears Subaru told me there was obvious damage to gears 1-4 which my mechanic said was incorrect and innacurate. Dont know what to think about that.
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Old 01-27-2002, 10:56 PM   #13
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This may sound crazy but it worked for a friend of mine. Get a picket sign saying "(so and so) subaru is unfair" and maybe con a friend into helping you. Stand out in front of the dealership on pubic property. (Of course make sure of your local protesting laws first) And prostest. The dealership owner will be rushing out very shortly negotiating with you to put down the signs. That kind of publicity is horrible and they know it. A lot of time the cars/potential customers passing by will think its a union thing and never give that dealership another look and the dealership know this and will want to appease you as soon as possible. I know that take guts to do. But I swear my friend had his engine and transmission replaced at 62k after his warranty ran out. He had called about the problems at 58k but they couldn't schedule an appointment until 3wks later. He commutes about 200mi a day and by the time they could get him in they said his warranty "expiried". He went the usual route like you but got nothing done. There was no way he could afford a lawyer so this was his only option left. It worked. BTW it was a Ford dealership.

cheers
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Old 01-28-2002, 12:21 AM   #14
ANZAC_1915
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Here's a story. I was working a corner with a guy who was telling me about his Mustang Cobra.

It had a problem with pinging and dealer tried 5 times to fix it. He wrote an email to the head of SVT and the next thing he got was a call from someone at Ford saying "what color would you like your new Cobra?"

Also remember the Subaru district tech mgr's job is to keep Subaru's costs down.

You might find the lemon law a better route than a straight out lawsuit. Some state's lemon laws are written to give the consumer more than a fighting chance.

The bottom line is that it is very bad publicity for Subaru to refuse to repair a car under warranty unless they have compelling evidence that the car was abused.

Glenn
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Old 01-28-2002, 11:09 AM   #15
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MD lemon law says the dealer has 30 days to fix your problem from the date your first gave them NOTICE of the problem. If it's been more than 30 days then you have a lemon and they must replace it. Btw, which dealer are you going to?

If you need an attorney in MD, I know one who got a client a new S4 from Audi of Rockville due to repeated transmission failures. PM me if you want info.
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Old 01-28-2002, 02:46 PM   #16
sajohnson
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Default Stallion and no_rex_yet

Where in MD are you?

Stallion: I'm glad to see you are getting good advice. Don't give up--that's what they are counting on. When you win we all win.

Fight on!
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Old 01-28-2002, 07:57 PM   #17
Stallion
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I am in Annapolis, and the dealership is Annapolis Subaru. I do have connections to the owner of the dealership and could talk with him, but I assume the repairs would come out of his pocket now that SOA has wiped ther hands of the matter (or so they think!!) These are all awesome ideas and I just might try some of them out.

no_rex!!!! you're pm's are full, e-mail me that info on the lawyer, I am very interested to talk with him! (Samram3@aol.com) Thanks, this is actually starting to give me some hope. I told them about the problems at the end of November and I set up the appointment for the 17th of December. At that point they said they would not fix it without even looking at it. I finally convinced them to take apart and look at it, but they said they would charge me if once opened, the tranny looked abused. They took the car in on the 21st of jan. and took the tranny apart on the 24th and decided on the 25th that they were denying my warranty coverage. So yea, its been well over 30 days.

I will find out some second and third opinions on the gears very soon. Thanks for all the help!
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Old 01-28-2002, 08:45 PM   #18
lilo
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That sux. I hate getting the run-a-round on
things. If it will help, I will be happy to
mention to them my concern about jerking around
a fellow I-Clubber. Word does get around,
even more so when it's a network of Impreza/WRX
owners. Although, I have had nothing but
good dealings with them. But that has been for
oil changes and a check up. Good luck and
keep up the posts.
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Old 01-29-2002, 03:55 AM   #19
GenMaster
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Well, as far as I can tell driving my wrx for about 10 months now, I also have to double cluth to reverse my car out of the garage other wise it will grind the first time I shift into reverse, also unless Im like at 5-10km/h it will not let me shift into 1st gear.

So is this normal? or this is a potential problem that can lead to what happen with Stallion? Anyone?

rex
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Old 01-29-2002, 04:27 AM   #20
sajohnson
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All I can tell you is mine shifts into first and reverse with no problem. Sometimes I have to quickly engage and disengage the clutch to get it to slip into reverse (or let the car roll a few inches) but that is normal. It will go into first with light pressure on the shifter at 26-27 mph. No grinding, no drama.
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Old 01-29-2002, 11:27 AM   #21
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First thing I would do is consult an Attorney, because the bourdon of proof is on SOA.

Second, thing I would do is write letters to the big wigs at SOA and let them know in a polite way what happened and that you are going to seek legal council. I promise you that you WILL get a reply and it might surprise you what they say.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Torch
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Old 01-29-2002, 12:35 PM   #22
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Default There only a few hours away

You know SOA is in Cherry Hill NJ. They are only a few hours from Annapolis. You could take the car right to the Big Wigs and drop it right on their front door. Tell them you'll move it when they take a ride. That should get you some response.

It might be from the police but what the hell.

Big important people don't like being bothered by little people. Especially when they have others to deal with you. Remember to them inconvenience is not worth the price of one lousy tranny. BTW they usually have 10-15 WRXs sitting NEW in the SOA lot. Tell them you'll gladly take one of those and leave quietly
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Old 01-29-2002, 01:04 PM   #23
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My WRX often has trouble going into 1st, even at a dead stop. And, when cold, 1st - 3rd are notchy at best, and downshifting is bad most of the time, sometimes even after matching revs.

I am a firm believer that the manual tranny in the WRX is poor. I have driven many different manuals, and have never had this much trouble with any of them.

I haven't brought it in to the dealer yet, but am considering it.

Thanks for the information about your problems. Keep us informed as to the outcome.
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Old 01-29-2002, 02:46 PM   #24
pittspilot
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List me as another person who is going to have to bring my car in for Transmission issues.

When I first got the car, it had no issues shifting to first, or reverse.

At almost 8000 miles, I now find that the car will not shift into 1st when cold until it is at a dead stop for a moment or two, and when warm, will not downshift into first until below about 2mph.

No Issues with reverse

If this is normal, as I have seen stated in other places, Why did my car change behavior? (And no it is not abuse, Manual Driver for 12 years etc.)
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Old 01-30-2002, 06:26 AM   #25
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Goodluck to you. I hope that things work out and perhaps you might set some precedence. I'm having 1/2/R problems but for now i'm sticking to double clutching i can't drop my car off for a week and have no ride... But I'm going to bring it in ASAP when i don't need a car for a few days...
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