Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 27, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Warranty Issues & SOA Problems

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-06-2007, 11:57 AM   #1
Hank3
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16157
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Vehicle:
'03 Mazda P5 <><
'02 WRX & '08 MS3 SOLD!!!

Default Potential Subaru Turbo Oil Starvation Issues

MODS - please delete if this is a repost

This isn't to alarm anyone - it's more of an FYI

Forced Performance released a bulletin that coincides with a Subaru TSB that came out 10/07:

Quote:
Subaru Turbo Oil Starvation Back


Forced Performance 2004-2007 Subaru 2.5l Bulletin 12/1/07
Oil Starvation of Turbos on Subaru Vehicles: Why and How.
Mysterious "oil starvation" problems are a nightmare for power junkies with expensive turbochargers. The last thing anybody wants to hear from their turbo shop is "this thing is ruined; it looks like you don’t have any oil getting to your turbo".

But as sure as you are that your engine runs fine and has perfect oil pressure, Mr. Turbo Shop Guy is even more certain that the turbo bearings burned up due to a lack of sufficient lubrication. What is the answer? How can both be correct? How can an engine that is running fine and has perfect oil pressure destroy a turbocharger due to oil starvation or lack of sufficient oil supply? Well, Subaru has figured it out, and has issued a series of Service Bulletins that explains how it happens and what to do about it.

Turns out that there is an oil filter screen built into the factory oil feed banjo bolt at the cylinder head, and Subaru wants it either serviced regularly or removed completely in order to avoid turbocharger oil starvation and failure. The Subaru Service Technicians (from dealerships) we interviewed on this subject reported recurring turbocharger failures even on completely stock 2.5 WRX, STi, Forrester and Baja vehicles due to this problem, prompting an Official Subaru Service Bulletin in October 2007. Material collected in these screens consisted of mainly gummy sludge and carbon with flakes of metal from various internal engine components. In one reported case in Alabama, even a low mileage 05 Baja which had all its regular 3k mile oil changes at the dealership experienced a stock turbocharger failure due to this oil filter becoming plugged with sludge.

This turbo screen is not to be confused with the screen that filters the oil for the AVCS valve which does not affect turbo oil supply since it is after the "tee" that splits off the oil supply line to the turbo. The AVCS filter can also become plugged and affect the performance of the AVCS solenoid, but luckily when the AVCS filter becomes clogged there is no catastrophic failure of a $1000+ component as in the case of the turbocharger filter, just a check engine light due to the non functioning AVCS.

Most enthusiasts are not aware that they even have a turbo oil filter in their oil supply line; much less that it requires periodic cleaning with each oil change. The following text is from the Service Bulletin titled "Turbocharger Oil Supply Mesh Screen #02-103-07";

"the mesh screen which is located inside the banjo bolt that secures the turbo¬charger oil supply pipe to the back of the right side cylinder head should be checked to make sure it is not clogged or restricted especially if the condition of the oil is questionable or as to when the last oil change was performed. If clogged or restricted, it will reduce or cut off the oil supply to the turbo resulting in failure. The oil supply pipe should also be checked to make sure that there are no obstructions."

The Bulletin goes on to point out that this is even more critical that this filter be checked frequently when the car is "used under severe driving conditions, such as moderate to hard acceleration and engine braking on a somewhat regular basis". HA! Moderate to hard acceleration is the understatement of the century for all of the FPGreen and Red equipped cars out there.

For some time we have been looking for the cause of these "random" unusual oil starvation failures in otherwise perfectly running vehicles that are usually very well maintained with high quality oils and service. We have finally found official Subaru documentation of this problem to support our observations that somehow, somewhere, turbo oil supply can get cut off within the oil supply system of the vehicle and destroy the turbocharger, and that this is a known and recognized problem by Subaru.

Forced Performance recommends REMOVING this "Turbocharger Oil Supply Mesh Screen" in all vehicles running our FPGreen and Red model turbochargers. The thrust bearing used in these turbochargers has very little tolerance for reduced or limited oil supply. In fact this bearing actually requires approximately TWICE the oil volume as a stock IHI turbocharger and can die a quick and sure death if fed its life giving oil through one of these restricted filters. It is also completely possible that a slightly restricted filter will destroy your FPGreen model, but not destroy your stock turbo when installed back onto the car after the failure of the FPGreen, this is due to the fact that the factory turbochargers do not have the same high volume flow requirements of the FPGreen and Red Model Turbos and are therefore the stock turbo is less sensitive to partially restricted oil supply. This made diagnoses even more difficult since in some cases, stock turbos were installed after a failed FPGreen or Red model and an immediate failure of the stock turbo was not observed.

We also wish to point out that the picture of the banjo bolt and filter shown in the Service Bulletin appears to have the filter oriented BACKWARDS. To avoid confusion about which way to install the filter, simply eliminate the filter by picking it out of the banjo bolt and discarding it as soon as possible.

With this problem now fully documented and explained, we hope to reduce the number of customers who damage and destroy their turbos by lack of lubrication. At the very minimum we hope to advise those who care to listen how to avoid this problem. Subaru considers this problem a "warranty" problem when it affects the operation of the AVCS valve and stock turbo. We doubt that generosity will extend to replacing your expensive aftermarket turbocharger when it fails due to the same problem. It is every car owner’s responsibility to check and verify that his turbo filter is either removed (FPGreen or Red) or perfectly clean (all other turbos) at all times. Do not assume that since you had a "Professional Shop" or "Tuner" install your turbo that your filter has been removed or checked, most people do not even know that the filter exists! We have been looking for this problem for almost a year before finding documentation of it; documentation that has only existed since October 2007. Do not assume that since your FPGreen or Red has not failed that you are immune to this problem, you are not – check your filter now.

We are offering a "bolt replacement kit" for those wishing to replace this troublesome "Turbocharger Oil Supply Mesh Screen" with standard hi-flow banjo bolt free of charge to all FPGreen and Red customers in our system, and this bolt is now supplied with all New FPGreen and Red model turbochargers sold on or after 12/1/07.

At Forced Performance, we take turbos very seriously. We are constantly searching for ways to help our customers build successful project cars and avoid unknown pitfalls, problems and failures; and in this case that concern extends as deep as researching and resolving unusual problems like little known turbo oil supply mesh screens found in the oil supply system of your car.

So don’t kill your turbo, pull your filter.

Boost ON!
Robert Young
President – Forced Performance Inc.
Original link per Forced Performance's site.

And here are the links to Subaru's TSB:

Link 1
Link 2
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Last edited by Hank3; 12-07-2007 at 10:03 AM.
Hank3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 03:21 PM   #2
blackfang
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 131347
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Richmond Va
Vehicle:
2007 Legacy 2.5i SE
98 Z/28, VN 900 custom

Default

I think this belongs in the Service section. If a customer changes their oil regularly, they will be less likely to run into this. This is more of a service FYI.

BTW, your links aren't working.
blackfang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 03:25 PM   #3
Hank3
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16157
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Vehicle:
'03 Mazda P5 <><
'02 WRX & '08 MS3 SOLD!!!

Default

Fixed the links.

MODS - please move to proper forum if need be.
Hank3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 04:48 PM   #4
shemoves
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 80663
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Glendale, AZ
Vehicle:
1997 Outback

Default

Would this be something I could take my car in and have the dealership do (remove) for free? Or is it simple enought that I could do myself?
shemoves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 05:13 PM   #5
jarvis210
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 129547
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Fullerton
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sti
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

man i am just running stage 2 and have 40000 miles on my car. wonder if i should just pull the screen out...
jarvis210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 05:57 PM   #6
blackfang
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 131347
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Richmond Va
Vehicle:
2007 Legacy 2.5i SE
98 Z/28, VN 900 custom

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shemoves View Post
Would this be something I could take my car in and have the dealership do (remove) for free? Or is it simple enought that I could do myself?
Nothing on that TSB states Subaru wants it removed. In fact, I have yet to hear where Subaru has stated they do want it removed. They put it there for a purpose. Regular oil changes and servicing will prevent it from getting clogged. I have seen a couple that were clogged and it caused the turbo to go bad.
blackfang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 07:54 PM   #7
jarvis210
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 129547
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Fullerton
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sti
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

well i always do oil changes every 2k miles so i doubt its clogged but you never know. I would rather just remove it knowing that i always have clean oil in my engine. i am going to ask the service manager at my local subaru dealership and see what they think.
jarvis210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2007, 08:56 PM   #8
blackfang
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 131347
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Richmond Va
Vehicle:
2007 Legacy 2.5i SE
98 Z/28, VN 900 custom

Default

Well I can tell you they wont remove it for free.If they do remove it (I know i won't if they ask me), they will most likely have a clause in their to cover their rear.
blackfang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 01:40 AM   #9
shemoves
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 80663
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Glendale, AZ
Vehicle:
1997 Outback

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackfang View Post
Nothing on that TSB states Subaru wants it removed. In fact, I have yet to hear where Subaru has stated they do want it removed. They put it there for a purpose. Regular oil changes and servicing will prevent it from getting clogged. I have seen a couple that were clogged and it caused the turbo to go bad.
From the OP:

Turns out that there is an oil filter screen built into the factory oil feed banjo bolt at the cylinder head, and Subaru wants it either serviced regularly or removed completely in order to avoid turbocharger oil starvation and failure. The Subaru Service Technicians (from dealerships) we interviewed on this subject reported recurring turbocharger failures even on completely stock 2.5 WRX, STi, Forrester and Baja vehicles due to this problem, prompting an Official Subaru Service Bulletin in October 2007. Material collected in these screens consisted of mainly gummy sludge and carbon with flakes of metal from various internal engine components. In one reported case in Alabama, even a low mileage 05 Baja which had all its regular 3k mile oil changes at the dealership experienced a stock turbocharger failure due to this oil filter becoming plugged with sludge.
shemoves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 06:19 AM   #10
blackfang
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 131347
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Richmond Va
Vehicle:
2007 Legacy 2.5i SE
98 Z/28, VN 900 custom

Default

Yes I know this.

I have yet to hear from a Subaru FSM that they want us to remove the Screen as a fix. I have had them tell us it is imperative to clean it, inspect the lines, etc. That is 3rd party source in the first post. Even the Official SOA TSB he linked doesn't even state to remove it, but infact service it. That is all I am saying regarding if they will remove it for free.
blackfang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 08:08 AM   #11
ufslouis
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 142837
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
MBP

Default

Is this for all years? It specified 2.5l wondering If this is an issue for the bugeyes?
ufslouis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 08:57 AM   #12
armand1
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 10309
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA
Vehicle:
'02 OBS 2-tone!
'95 Montego Miata

Default

Since the TSB says "APPLICABILITY: All Turbo Equipped Vehicles", it applies to all WRXs, STIs, turbo Foresters, etc.
armand1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 10:18 AM   #13
Undepelo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34960
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MD
Vehicle:
What would baby
Jesus say of OT?

Default

Note that there is no mention that Subaru recommends the filter to be removed. It says make sure it's installed correctlly and clean.
Undepelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 10:44 AM   #14
carnz-pj-410
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110994
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Atlantic
Vehicle:
2015 WRX 6MT
1993 Legacy SS

Default

glad i came upon this, im about to do a turbo install too, i guess i'll remove this during the install. im worried about oil starvation more now

thanks for posting
carnz-pj-410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 10:44 AM   #15
shemoves
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 80663
Join Date: Jan 2005
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: Glendale, AZ
Vehicle:
1997 Outback

Default

Gotcha. I'll def need to take a look at mine. Could anyone take a pic and show me where it is at?
shemoves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 10:56 AM   #16
Undepelo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34960
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MD
Vehicle:
What would baby
Jesus say of OT?

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carnz-pj-410 View Post
glad i came upon this, im about to do a turbo install too, i guess i'll remove this during the install. im worried about oil starvation more now

thanks for posting
But if the filter is removed, what will the effects be of crap running into the turbo bearings?
Undepelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 12:59 PM   #17
krzyss
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8365
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Massachusetts
Vehicle:
2013 Ford Focus SE
Black

Default

The really scary part

From the OP:

"In one reported case in Alabama, even a low mileage 05 Baja which had all its regular 3k mile oil changes at the dealership experienced a stock turbocharger failure due to this oil filter becoming plugged with sludge."

It would mean that oil is underspec'ed by Subaru. Looks awfully like Toyota and VW sludge issue.

Krzys
krzyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 06:23 PM   #18
carnz-pj-410
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110994
Join Date: Mar 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Atlantic
Vehicle:
2015 WRX 6MT
1993 Legacy SS

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Undepelo View Post
But if the filter is removed, what will the effects be of crap running into the turbo bearings?
i guess you gotta make sure your oil is clean lol
carnz-pj-410 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2007, 06:34 PM   #19
Opie
Floresbian
Moderator
 
Member#: 470
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Riverview, Florida - U.S.A.
Vehicle:
2015 Forester 2.0XT
'14 XV Crosstrek, '99 SF

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by carnz-pj-410 View Post
i guess you gotta make sure your oil is clean lol
And if you do that you wouldn't ever need to remove the screens in the turbo oil supply line...
Opie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 05:16 PM   #20
jarvis210
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 129547
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Fullerton
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sti
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

i talked to a local subaru tech and dealership and they recomended i just remove it. So i went ahead and did it and now i am all ready to install an fp green. I cant wait for some extra power
jarvis210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 05:47 PM   #21
fastlanerex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 133391
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
2004 boosted saleen
white

Default

I'm going down to subaru tommorow about this. I swear whoever designed some of this **** is an bum off the street that cant read. (cat in uppipe) (now this wtf is next) Im going down to talk to my friend that works there and just having them take it off i change my oil every 3k so im not worried bout dirty oil. Its the person that had it before me that i dont know how well they looked after the car motor wise.

thanks for this post.



And for subaru
fastlanerex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 08:41 PM   #22
jarvis210
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 129547
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Fullerton
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Sti
Platinum Silver Metallic

Default

yea i am not worried about dirty oil either i always change my oil every 2k miles and i always use high quality oil. it is just peace of mind for me to take it out.. now i know that my turbo is getting plenty of oil..
jarvis210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2007, 11:42 PM   #23
reddoak
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 147628
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Columbia, MD
Vehicle:
2013 Beep beep
it's a Jeep.

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie View Post
And if you do that you wouldn't ever need to remove the screens in the turbo oil supply line...
Your guys in Sanford are doing that for me, do you know if they are aware of this TSB? New owners and all, the last guys had a pretty poor rep...
reddoak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2007, 09:25 AM   #24
Undepelo
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34960
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: MD
Vehicle:
What would baby
Jesus say of OT?

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastlanerex View Post
I'm going down to subaru tommorow about this. I swear whoever designed some of this **** is an bum off the street that cant read. (cat in uppipe) (now this wtf is next) Im going down to talk to my friend that works there and just having them take it off i change my oil every 3k so im not worried bout dirty oil. Its the person that had it before me that i dont know how well they looked after the car motor wise.

thanks for this post.



And for subaru
Right, engineers are idiots. Its a miracle that cars even start.

If you are never going to inspect the filter IMHO it makes sense to remove it. Otherwise inspecting it every now and then would make more sense to me.
Undepelo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2007, 11:53 AM   #25
Hank3
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 16157
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Vehicle:
'03 Mazda P5 <><
'02 WRX & '08 MS3 SOLD!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jarvis210 View Post
i talked to a local subaru tech and dealership and they recomended i just remove it. So i went ahead and did it and now i am all ready to install an fp green. I cant wait for some extra power
How long did it take you to do it? Was it hard to locate and remove?
Hank3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question on OEM Subaru turbo oil filters Ryan314 Service & Maintenance 7 04-24-2010 01:49 AM
subaru turbo oil starvation dirtbikeridr12 Service & Maintenance 5 07-29-2009 02:24 AM
subaru turbo oil starvation dirtbikeridr12 Newbies & FAQs 2 06-01-2009 11:19 PM
Oil Starvation to the turbo..... GochYou Newbies & FAQs 2 11-06-2008 08:19 PM
1st time tracking my STi on a road course, worry about oil starvation JDM addict Motorsports 44 12-15-2003 03:07 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.