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Old 12-09-2007, 04:07 PM   #1
ferrari355
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Default Will a Cobb AccessPort void the warranty?

Hello,

I was curious on was found about warranty issus with upgrading to Cobb access port 2...I have herd this does leave a mark on the ecu...in the way of a different checksum to it not leaaving a trace...let me know your experiance. Thanks....Jeff
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:15 PM   #2
layzienoy
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I would assume that any kind of ecu modifications could and most likely would lead to the denial of a warranty claim on the powertrain as you are adding more power than the car had stock and changes to the programming of the fuel computer is pretty easily used as a cause for some type of failure. I have heard that it does leave some trace in the ecu programming when it is hooked up to the diagnosis. if you were to get one i wouldn't try to hide it if you need service as that makes you look like you broke something and are trying to cover it up, i've heard of and seen honesty take a person pretty far.
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Old 12-10-2007, 09:04 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by layzienoy View Post
I would assume that any kind of ecu modifications could and most likely would lead to the denial of a warranty claim on the powertrain as you are adding more power than the car had stock and changes to the programming of the fuel computer is pretty easily used as a cause for some type of failure. I have heard that it does leave some trace in the ecu programming when it is hooked up to the diagnosis. if you were to get one i wouldn't try to hide it if you need service as that makes you look like you broke something and are trying to cover it up, i've heard of and seen honesty take a person pretty far.
Yes, honesty can take a person far, but it is definitely not a given. To be on the safe side, assume that the AP will cause a warranty denial on any failed powertrain components. Can you afford to pay out of pocket for a new engine or transmission? If the answer is "no" or "yes, but it would really hurt," play it safe and don't modify your car. Have fun with it for 60K miles, save up some money during that time, then go all out when the warranty has expired.
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:20 PM   #4
jarvis210
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mod that ***** from day one.....when you play you will pay....
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jarvis210 View Post
mod that ***** from day one.....when you play you will pay....
lol that is a good quote on the flip side....

I am going to say i would drive it AT LEAST til 25-30k without modifying it if you cant afford a new transmission or engine. You want to make sure nothing major goes wrong. If you know how to pull a tranny and replace it/rebuild it or put in a new clutch and what not.... then maybe it wouldn't hurt as bad. You can find trannys on here, the thing they kill you on is labor. But ya +1 to whoever said that if you cant afford it... dont do it. **** breaks when you drive your car hard... i know bout that one and <=== this is what you look like when it actually happens. just my $.02

Jeff
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Old 08-12-2008, 07:57 AM   #6
mikessti1
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Get a Cobb Access Port.Switch back to the stock ECU Mode.No trace on ECU.Period!
As long as there in no other visible mods,we all should be fine with the Warranty
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Old 08-12-2008, 03:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by mikessti1 View Post
Get a Cobb Access Port.Switch back to the stock ECU Mode.No trace on ECU.Period!
As long as there in no other visible mods,we all should be fine with the Warranty
nope...

yes there is a checksum that will be changed by an AP, and no, your average dealership PROBABLY isn't going to check it, at least until you need a new engine.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:21 AM   #8
Trumpet112014
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Default Accessport warranty question

Yes, just spoke to my Subaru mechanic, in any power train related failure, step 1 is to research the ecu. Nothing is invisible.
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Old 03-10-2014, 10:22 AM   #9
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Well good job on bumping the thread from 2007 to tell him.
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:15 AM   #10
Trumpet112014
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Default Cobb accessport

Yes, after speaking with a Subaru mechanic, the first thing that will be checked if it's anything power train related (as instructed by SOA), is the ecu. SOA will find out if you flashed your ecu which in turn allows them to deny warranty. So if your turbo goes out prematurely and you are only stage 1, your outta luck.
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:45 PM   #11
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They won't know if you change back to stock and are using a Cobb AP.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:55 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by MaddMax View Post
They won't know if you change back to stock and are using a Cobb AP.
All evidence suggests the opposite.

But either way, we don't promote warranty fraud on this forum.
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:28 PM   #13
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nope...

yes there is a checksum that will be changed by an AP, and no, your average dealership PROBABLY isn't going to check it, at least until you need a new engine.
When you uninstall AP it puts back your original factory tune therefor the checksum would be the same as the one last recorded by Subaru when your car left the factory or when a dealer performed an update.

According to Cobb there is no flash counter so they should find no actual evidence you changed your tune. The dealer can tell when the ECU was reset so if you uninstall it the day before you bring the car in it does look suspicious but they really can't prove that you didn't disconnect your battery for some reason.
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Old 03-14-2014, 04:05 PM   #14
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When you uninstall AP it puts back your original factory tune therefor the checksum would be the same as the one last recorded by Subaru when your car left the factory or when a dealer performed an update. According to Cobb there is no flash counter so they should find no actual evidence you changed your tune. The dealer can tell when the ECU was reset so if you uninstall it the day before you bring the car in it does look suspicious but they really can't prove that you didn't disconnect your battery for some reason.
Multiple Subaru employees have posted that the checksum values are not changed by un marrying an AP.
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Old 03-21-2014, 10:57 AM   #15
jason02wrx
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From what I know Cobb took advantage of some "extra"unused memory space that cannot be reversed upon removing the ap from the ecu. Any knowledgeable dealership service dept should pick up on this if they have a reason to look.
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:17 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jason02wrx View Post
From what I know Cobb took advantage of some "extra"unused memory space that cannot be reversed upon removing the ap from the ecu. Any knowledgeable dealership service dept should pick up on this if they have a reason to look.
I have not heard of this
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Old 03-21-2014, 09:41 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by trife86 View Post

I have not heard of this
This has been discussed before. Bottom line...is that ap (or any other em) worth a warranty claim for $texas$ being denied? If you choose to go that direction and something breaks be honest and be prepared to pay.
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Old 03-21-2014, 11:26 PM   #18
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From what I know Cobb took advantage of some "extra"unused memory space that cannot be reversed upon removing the ap from the ecu. Any knowledgeable dealership service dept should pick up on this if they have a reason to look.
Never heard of this and have a hard time believing this is plausible.
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Old 03-22-2014, 08:41 AM   #19
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Never heard of this and have a hard time believing this is plausible.
Search the other 500 threads about thus and you will see. You will also see that this was never directly answered by Cobb when presented to them.

I don't sit around making up ****. You can believe it or not. Have a friend who works for Subaru with a SSM3 tool?
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:22 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
Never heard of this and have a hard time believing this is plausible.
It depends on Cobb's engineers and what they learned from reverse engineering the SOA ECU. Using unused memory space when 'attacking' embedded systems is very common. A popular method is to load custom code onto unused memory, and modify 1 line of the stock instruction set to call the custom code.

If this is the case, and Cobb wrote to unused memory space while 'Marrying' the AP, the can ZERO out the memory space used when umarrying it. The information we are trying to get a hold of exposes the innerworkings of the Cobb AP which is treated as closed IP as well as the innerworkings of the Subaru ECU also closed IP. (Don't expect straight answers from Cobb or SOA)

The real questions that need to be answered are the following:
1. Does marrying an AP change the Check Sum?
2. Does unmarrying the AP revert the CheckSum to factory?
3. Does the Subarau ECU Bootloader keep statistics on reads/writes?
4. Is the checksum calculated from only the loaded rom or all flash memory or just eeprom?

Answers to #3 and #4 would provide the necessary information on whether #1 and #2 occur. However, #1 and #2 can be answered without #3 and #4. All we need is a Scooby mech with a scooby and an AP with some free time to test. If the tools the mechs have are publicly available, then I might consider trying to get a hold of one (depends on price and reuseability) to test this out myself.

P.S- I am a scooby noobie but a software engineer by trade that specializes on life-critical embedded systems.

*Edit* Forgot to mention, we a scooby mech that is currently trying to get a straight answer to these questions from his Master Tech in this post
Hopefully we get some good info as the ECU Checksum stuff is debated as much as climate change and if you read the forums long enough, half say checksums change from stock even when unmarrying the AP while the other half claim it reverts to stock.

Last edited by pawingo; 03-23-2014 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:13 PM   #21
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I'm sure they have other ways to tell if the ecu was tampered with. I believe on the new mustang gt when you unmarry there tuners the ecu counts how many times the motor was started after each flash. So if you have 8k miles and your motor blows and get it towed to dealer and shows 0 starts there going to deny your claim.
Idk if that's true or not but I have read it on there forums.
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:20 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Mdsiman View Post
I'm sure they have other ways to tell if the ecu was tampered with. I believe on the new mustang gt when you unmarry there tuners the ecu counts how many times the motor was started after each flash. So if you have 8k miles and your motor blows and get it towed to dealer and shows 0 starts there going to deny your claim.
Idk if that's true or not but I have read it on there forums.
Hopefully ScubySnacks answers this once and for all on the other thread. Sounds like we find out on monday.
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Old 03-23-2014, 01:22 PM   #23
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Eh I still think if you put a tune on the car just be ready if a warranty claim is denied.
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Old 03-23-2014, 09:31 PM   #24
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I found this thread to be helpful when i was asking myself the same question.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2142671
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Old 03-24-2014, 07:20 AM   #25
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Thank you shotz! I think this answers it. Maybe that ^^^ thread should be a Sticky under Technical-> Engine Management -> AccessPort sub forum.
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