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Old 10-15-2008, 09:55 AM   #101
Turn in Concepts
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Originally Posted by TheNewThatGuy View Post
Ok, so I was under my car today and it seems my rear subframe is a little different. I have a 2000 2.5RS with a diff. cover that was there when I bought it. I don't know if that makes a difference, but basically, mine varies, for whatever reason, from both your and my manuals pictures of what it should look like. Where those two center holes in the subframe that are close together are, that's where my bushings are, and how the diff connects to the subframe. I don't have that little "arm" that holds the bushings AT ALL. I'm wondering if these bushings will work for me and was wondering if I back that nut off on mine, is it just a stud that goes into the diff, or what? if so, how do I get your inside rear bushing on the stock bushing? Finally, would anyone be willing to measure those bushings for me so I can see if they'll fit?

That nut is rusted on there dame good, so I kinda want to know what that stud it's holding connects to on the diff, and how... Thanks...

Your setup is different from the WRX in that it uses the old style of "bushing directly in the subframe." The rear diff bushings pictured here will not work. The outrigger bushings, and lock bolts will.

As for replacement bushings you'll need something different. The only that I know of on the market are either inserts or replacements. The replacements are a pain to put in as you need to drop the rear diff to press out the old ones, and press in the new ones.

Ironically, the new 08's use the old style of "bushing in the subframe." For some reason Subaru keeps flip flopping between that and the dog bone as years go on.
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:03 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by UniqueTII View Post
Any update on the Legacy GT kit?
Thanks for your question, we are actually working on a kit of the Legacy GT, and it should be out by the end of the year, thanks!
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Old 10-15-2008, 05:36 PM   #103
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Awesome. I'll be one of the first customers for that part.
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Old 10-15-2008, 09:14 PM   #104
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Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Do you know where I can get inserts, like this kit has? I assumed the bolts and bigger bushings would work, because they seem to be the same. Looking at the bushings, they looked a similar size....but didn't know. Thanks for the clarity.

Anyone know then where I can get the subframe/diff bushings for my kinda of rear end? Perrin, you guys making a kit for the new ones, or what? : D Sounds like I'll need that one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn in Concepts View Post
Your setup is different from the WRX in that it uses the old style of "bushing directly in the subframe." The rear diff bushings pictured here will not work. The outrigger bushings, and lock bolts will.

As for replacement bushings you'll need something different. The only that I know of on the market are either inserts or replacements. The replacements are a pain to put in as you need to drop the rear diff to press out the old ones, and press in the new ones.

Ironically, the new 08's use the old style of "bushing in the subframe." For some reason Subaru keeps flip flopping between that and the dog bone as years go on.
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Old 12-14-2008, 12:59 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by watchunglava View Post
same thing here man . on one side i put the plate underneath. on the other i put it on top.

when i put the second side together it was obvious the metal plate goes on top of the red bushing. i went back to the otherside and the metal plate was all bent up cause i put it on wrong. after fixing it and tightening everything up im pretty sure it bent back into place. it feels fine. next time i hae the car up on ramps or stands ill recheck everything.
I found this thread today after doing a search as I found it hard to believe that this problem was not experienced by many others.
Well I purchased my kit last February and just did the install as I had carpal tunnel surgery last spring and have had complications. I followed the included instructions to the letter as I have always believed Perrin products to be of the highest quality and thoroughly sorted out.
Well as I torqued the subject mentioned bolts to the required 100 ft. lbs. the problem became obvious. What pisses me off the most is that I assessed the situation with the bushing installed on top of the original, as instructed in the supplied instruction sheet, before torquing down and I was a little concerned as I could see that a portion of the bushing was overhanging. But I put my faith in Perrin instructions before my own common sense.
(lesson learned) Well I disassembled everything when it became apparent that something was wrong and then discovered that the plate on top of the stock bushing was removable.
I straightened the distorted plates and reassembled everything.
This should have never happened.
While doing the Rear Diff Lockout installation I also installed my Perrin rear Differential cover. Never was the removable vent mentioned in the included instructions. Additionally, I suspect that when I do the next fluid change I will be removing the cover in order to fabricate a proper vent shield/fluid deflector.
I write lesson plans to be used in firearms and armorer instruction and fully understand the importance of accuracy in the details.
I have spent a lot of money on Perrin products along with recommending these products over other brands to many other enthusiasts.
My confidence in Perrin products has been substantially reduced due to this experience.
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Old 12-14-2008, 01:10 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Nastoff View Post
I found this thread today after doing a search as I found it hard to believe that this problem was not experienced by many others.
Well I purchased my kit last February and just did the install as I had carpal tunnel surgery last spring and have had complications. I followed the included instructions to the letter as I have always believed Perrin products to be of the highest quality and thoroughly sorted out.
Well as I torqued the subject mentioned bolts to the required 100 ft. lbs. the problem became obvious. What pisses me off the most is that I assessed the situation with the bushing installed on top of the original, as instructed in the supplied instruction sheet, before torquing down and I was a little concerned as I could see that a portion of the bushing was overhanging. But I put my faith in Perrin instructions before my own common sense.
(lesson learned) Well I disassembled everything when it became apparent that something was wrong and then discovered that the plate on top of the stock bushing was removable.
I straightened the distorted plates and reassembled everything.
This should have never happened.
While doing the Rear Diff Lockout installation I also installed my Perrin rear Differential cover. Never was the removable vent mentioned in the included instructions. Additionally, I suspect that when I do the next fluid change I will be removing the cover in order to fabricate a proper vent shield/fluid deflector.
I write lesson plans to be used in firearms and armorer instruction and fully understand the importance of accuracy in the details.
I have spent a lot of money on Perrin products along with recommending these products over other brands to many other enthusiasts.
My confidence in Perrin products has been substantially reduced due to this experience.

Hi Steve,

Sorry you had any issues at all. I honestly don't understand the whole concern as I PERSONALLY haven't done this installation. BUT, we take all feedback and criticisms seriously and I know Jeff (Perrin) will be most interested in addressing these concerns ASAP. He is out until Monday but I am sending him a link to this post right now.

These parts (LockDown Kit and Rear Differential) are very popular items and fully worth their monetary value in improved performance. I don't want a minor issue to tarnish the benefits of these products.

Thank you again and in advance for the patience on Jeff's reply.



Adam Taft
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Old 12-14-2008, 03:36 PM   #107
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wait so on the differential cover install you have to remove a fluid vent and reinstall it with the new cover?
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Old 12-14-2008, 04:47 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Steve Nastoff View Post
I found this thread today after doing a search as I found it hard to believe that this problem was not experienced by many others.
Well I purchased my kit last February and just did the install as I had carpal tunnel surgery last spring and have had complications. I followed the included instructions to the letter as I have always believed Perrin products to be of the highest quality and thoroughly sorted out.
Well as I torqued the subject mentioned bolts to the required 100 ft. lbs. the problem became obvious. What pisses me off the most is that I assessed the situation with the bushing installed on top of the original, as instructed in the supplied instruction sheet, before torquing down and I was a little concerned as I could see that a portion of the bushing was overhanging. But I put my faith in Perrin instructions before my own common sense.
(lesson learned) Well I disassembled everything when it became apparent that something was wrong and then discovered that the plate on top of the stock bushing was removable.
I straightened the distorted plates and reassembled everything.
This should have never happened.
While doing the Rear Diff Lockout installation I also installed my Perrin rear Differential cover. Never was the removable vent mentioned in the included instructions. Additionally, I suspect that when I do the next fluid change I will be removing the cover in order to fabricate a proper vent shield/fluid deflector.
I write lesson plans to be used in firearms and armorer instruction and fully understand the importance of accuracy in the details.
I have spent a lot of money on Perrin products along with recommending these products over other brands to many other enthusiasts.
My confidence in Perrin products has been substantially reduced due to this experience.
Lets start with your subframe lockdown bushing install. It looks like all went well, except for the "monkey bar" bushing install. You are correct in that the bushing goes on top of the OEM bushing and under the steel plate. Our instructions do mention this in step #3 and even has a special note about it in parenthesis. I am sorry you missed this in the instructions, and maybe we need to make this a bolded item, or something so others don't miss it.

On the differential cover install again for 100% you do need that breather plug in the top installed into our diff cover. Our DIY did miss this step!! OOPS got to fix that! Our instructions do miss this step also! We screwed up on that one!

We have had this part for sale for almost 2 years now and never had a call about how they are installed or any thing relating to the plug missing from the instructions. Its a pretty obvious to be transfered from one to the other, which might be why. Even so its no excuse for not having it in the instructions!

The good news is that the breather plug can be removed from the old diff and installed into the old cover with out any issue at all. It is a tight fit but it can be done!

Again sorry for the issues you had, if you need a new diff breather plug we could get one sent out to you no problem! Just let us know!

if anyone reads this between now and Monday (maybe tuesday depending our snow issue) please make sure to either follow the above instructions not the ones downloaded from our site.

Thanks!
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:21 PM   #109
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Lets start with your subframe lockdown bushing install. It looks like all went well, except for the "monkey bar" bushing install. You are correct in that the bushing goes on top of the OEM bushing and under the steel plate. Our instructions do mention this in step #3 and even has a special note about it in parenthesis. I am sorry you missed this in the instructions, and maybe we need to make this a bolded item, or something so others don't miss it. (Quote)

Please Sir, Don't insult my intelligence. I followed the exact instructions that were provided with a purchase that I made in February of 08. There was no special note in parenthesis. I would be happy to scan my instruction sheet that was provided with the kit in order to prove a point.
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:32 PM   #110
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We have had this part for sale for almost 2 years now and never had a call about how they are installed or any thing relating to the plug missing from the instructions. Its a pretty obvious to be transferred from one to the other, which might be why. Even so its no excuse for not having it in the instructions! (QUOTE)

The good news is that the breather plug can be removed from the old diff and installed into the old cover with out any issue at all. It is a tight fit but it can be done! (QUOTE)

I agree that this step is quite obvious and I indeed did transfer the vent cover.
I am the one bringing this issue to your attention, and making an issue of it, I have to admit that I am very particular. Maybe excessive compulsive to a point.
I am a perfectionist and this the reason that I have been drawn to Perrin products in the past. The deeper that we venture into this situation, the more I am losing confidence.
Steve
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:36 PM   #111
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I am not insulting anything, i looked at our instructions and this is what it says. Its possible if you had one packaged in Febuary of this year, that the instructions were made clearer. We are always changing instructions to make them more clear, or to help eliminate questions with an installation.

A simple answer back of, " the instructions i have do not have this info on there" would have sufficed. And my reply would have been just like above. I understand you are upset, but your tone seems way out of line, when mine was being helpful.

I guess more smiley faces would have been a good idea. But my response was not insulting in the least. We all miss things when reading them and i even offered to make them more clear by bolding them. I could understand you being upset had my answer been a simple, "Re-read step #3"

On the second issue with the diff i answered the same tone, saying you are correct, and that it was our mistake and we needed to fix it.

Did i miss something??
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:40 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
I am not insulting anything, i looked at our instructions and this is what it says. Its possible if you had one packaged in Febuary of this year, that the instructions were made clearer. We are always changing instructions to make them more clear, or to help eliminate questions with an installation.

A simple answer back of, " the instructions i have do not have this info on there" would have sufficed. And my reply would have been just like above. I understand you are upset, but your tone seems way out of line, when mine was being helpful.

I guess more smiley faces would have been a good idea. But my response was not insulting in the least. We all miss things when reading them and i even offered to make them more clear by bolding them. I could understand you being upset had my answer been a simple, "Re-read step #3"

On the second issue with the diff i answered the same tone, saying you are correct, and that it was our mistake and we needed to fix it.

Did i miss something??
What you are missing sir, is a returning customer.

Thank you for your time,
Steve
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:43 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Steve Nastoff View Post

I agree that this step is quite obvious and I indeed did transfer the vent cover.
I am the one bringing this issue to your attention, and making an issue of it, I have to admit that I am very particular. Maybe excessive compulsive to a point.
I am a perfectionist and this the reason that I have been drawn to Perrin products in the past. The deeper that we venture into this situation, the more I am losing confidence.
Steve
I missed this while responding. Sorry.
Obsessive Compulsive is a good thing to be when it comes to things like this. Its a great way to perfect things like instructions. When we make them, we are the ones installing them, look at them everyday and take certain steps for granted because of it. Getting feedback from customers is how we improve things. If no one ever said anything about anything to us, we wouldn't have products like we do today. We listen to customers to help perfect things.

But what i dont understand is the way you did it. You sound like a reasonable person and an email, a call, a post with a better tone would have gotten the same thing done. HEll! We may have even sent you a shirt or something for your trouble!



What is your shirt size?
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Old 12-14-2008, 07:54 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Steve Nastoff View Post
What you are missing sir, is a returning customer.

Thank you for your time,
Steve
Missed this one also. while typing.
Sorry it has come to that. I guess being helpful doens't always win customers back. I know what it is like to upset and mis some of what is said. Like most people when upset, i get hard of hearing/listening.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:04 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
I am not insulting anything, i looked at our instructions and this is what it says. Its possible if you had one packaged in Febuary of this year, that the instructions were made clearer. We are always changing instructions to make them more clear, or to help eliminate questions with an installation.

A simple answer back of, " the instructions i have do not have this info on there" would have sufficed. And my reply would have been just like above. I understand you are upset, but your tone seems way out of line, when mine was being helpful.

I guess more smiley faces would have been a good idea. But my response was not insulting in the least. We all miss things when reading them and i even offered to make them more clear by bolding them. I could understand you being upset had my answer been a simple, "Re-read step #3"

On the second issue with the diff i answered the same tone, saying you are correct, and that it was our mistake and we needed to fix it.

Did i miss something??
What you are missing sir, is a returning customer.

Thank you for your time,
Steve
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:18 PM   #116
Steve Nastoff
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[quote=PERRINJeff;24829998]I missed this while responding. Sorry.
Obsessive Compulsive is a good thing to be when it comes to things like this. Its a great way to perfect things like instructions. When we make them, we are the ones installing them, look at them everyday and take certain steps for granted because of it. Getting feedback from customers is how we improve things. If no one ever said anything about anything to us, we wouldn't have products like we do today. We listen to customers to help perfect things.

But what i dont understand is the way you did it. You sound like a reasonable person and an email, a call, a post with a better tone would have gotten the same thing done. HEll! We may have even sent you a shirt or something for your trouble!

I have enough shirts.
Thank You.
I brought this to your attention the way that I did because I have always felt that Perrin products were a cut above.
The best available.
I have been modifying Japanese cars since 1985 and have pretty well sorted out the also ran company's based on my experience.
Both of my Supra's are loaded with HKS and Greddy products.
Top shelf.
When I purchased my WRX I did an incredible amount of research and soon discovered that this was a different animal and required a different approach.
In the early times I called, and spoke personally with you Jeff.
Your input was extremely accurate and was the basic guidance that I used while sculpting my WRX.
Maybe I am being unfair in the standards that I hold Perrin products to.
My perception, based on my experience, is that Perrin products encompass all of the ingredients to indeed always be a cut above as long as the commander of the watch does not become complacent.
Steve
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:32 PM   #117
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The initial post and instructions are all fixed up and uploaded to our site!
CLICK HERE FOR DIFF COVER
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Old 12-15-2008, 03:51 PM   #118
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I did look at our subframe lock down instructions and they were updated early July this year. Which does mean that there are some customers got the bushings without this added note. If anyone did and there washers got bent, give us a call or email and we can get you taken care of ASAP!
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Old 12-15-2008, 05:33 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PERRINJeff View Post
I did look at our subframe lock down instructions and they were updated early July this year. Which does mean that there are some customers got the bushings without this added note. If anyone did and there washers got bent, give us a call or email and we can get you taken care of ASAP!
I guess that it is just my luck.

I wish to apologize to all at Perrin for my aggressive approach to what was an unfortunate experience.
I had no idea that the subframe lock down instructions had been amended, nor have I ever had this portion of the subframe apart. I relied on the included instruction sheet and when I ran into the problem I became furious.
I still remember 5 yrs. ago when I opened the box that contained my Perrin up and downpipes. The quality and high polish really set me back. I almost declined to Swain Tech ceramic coat the parts because they were beautiful.
I did though as performance comes first with me. I was also very pleased with my Perrin catch can and radiator plate.
I've dealt with company's over the years that started out with incredible quality and service only to let things lapse as the demand grew and the bean counters became greedy. At that point I would move on and find other option to suit my needs as I am particular and my cars come second only to my family. Based on my recent experience I jumped the conclusion and made the assumption that Perrin was at that point. I was so pissed off that I brought the complaint here. I don't know if this was the best way to air my frustration or not but it's a little late now.
In addition to my offering an apology I would like to retract my statement that I would not be using Perrin parts in the future.
The correspondence that took place last night get pretty aggressive but maybe that was a good thing for all.
I'm ready to put this subject rest.

Steve
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Old 03-10-2009, 09:41 PM   #120
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Does anyone know what the easiest way to remove the rear lockout aluminum bushing, seems like mine are completely pressed in. tried prying for hours and no luck. Bolts are out just the bushing is still pushed thru. I need to remove them because i went back to stock and im sick of the noises.

great kit btw, worked well for me

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Old 07-07-2009, 06:29 PM   #121
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i just put the rear diff. subframe lockdown system in from perrin and its feels much better from 1st to 2nd.....concerning the noise its not bad at all for a daily its very little!!!! Also everyone who got the 4 bushings into the differential support brace, how were you able to remove the studs off the rear diff. i tried doing the jam nut method but it wouldn't budge!!!
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Old 07-08-2009, 10:16 AM   #122
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just double nut it and use an open end wrench on the nut that is sandwiched and if you need more leverage take another wrench and use the box end by wedge it to extend the first wrench (mechanics trick) I got lucky and the studs just came out when i tried to break the nuts loose

GL
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Old 07-08-2009, 01:18 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by BlackJavaPearl04 View Post
just double nut it and use an open end wrench on the nut that is sandwiched and if you need more leverage take another wrench and use the box end by wedge it to extend the first wrench (mechanics trick) I got lucky and the studs just came out when i tried to break the nuts loose

GL
i'll try that out, i was able to get everything from the kit on except for those 4 bushings.....what changes if you install those 4 bushing
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:21 PM   #124
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well i Just put mine in yesterday...I havent had a chance to test it out yet cause of the weather, but It should stiffen the movement of the differential during on/ off throttle and shifting. what changes is you might now hear a bit of NVH. but your 1-2 shift should be more firm and you wont hear that clunk in the rear during hard shifts.
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Old 07-08-2009, 09:58 PM   #125
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yeah the clunk went away with the bolts...surprisingly the lockdown bolts were in on first try i sprayed the holes with wd40 like 10 mins before, the passenger side bolt wasnt going in at first so i removed it cleaned up the threads on the bolt and hole and it was in!!! the NVH noise is bearable its not loud/annoying if you have music playing at a low volume you cant ever hear the noise!!! but you do feel a little bit of vibration, its not enough for me to start complaining, rather the really low NVH than the 1-2 clunk
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