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Old 12-18-2007, 04:02 PM   #1
Gr3en
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Default Ups and Downs of tuning your RS.

I would like to see what kind of gains different cars are getting with different mods. Name your car, mods and what kind of tune was done with opensource. Whether it be conservative or power.

MY:
Mileage:
Mods:
Tune:
Gains:
Pics of graphs or the car.
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Old 12-18-2007, 04:51 PM   #2
rkramer
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its possible to flash an RS? I didn't even think that was do-able...
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:21 PM   #3
formula91
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Sweet someone from IL, with the same year RS, and same color!
Not too far from Northbrook eiter.

I would also like to know if RS's can be tuned easily.
However, I think they can be.

I'm a complete tuning newb, and I'm just trying to get my basics down.
I just want to get a few kicks out of my stock 2.5RS.

Anyone done it yet?

-edit-
Anyone know any good resources to learn how to tune? Enginuity's site is down so....
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:32 PM   #4
williaty
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First of all, don't learn to tune solely from the internet. If you don't understand what you're doing, it's very easy to do something silly and blow up your engine. Before you do anything else, read some books. Start with How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems by Jeff Hartman and Engine Management: Advanced Tuning by Greg Banish. Then, go over to Innovate Motorsports (makers of the LC-1, which you'll probably need), and read basically everything in their Tuner Resources section. After that, get yourself an account on openecu.org and on the Enginuity Forums. Read everything on the Egninuity wiki about the different strategies the stock ECU uses to control different aspects of the engine. Finally, start focusing on the RS specifically by searching for posts made by my username on here. I started out asking noob questions and have come a long way. I've also still got a long way to go. I asked some questions I bet everyone will think of at some point and got some great answers from the Enginuity dev team. Reading what they've said to me will, if nothing else, give you an idea of the things you still need to ask about. Finally, get a Tactrix cable and log the everlovin crap out of the stock tune. Log, log, log until you know what the car is doing under any conditions. You WILL find things in logs that surprise the crap out of you (not only about the car, but about the way you drive, logging on course can make you a better driver too). Then compare the logs to the maps from your ROM to figure out WHY the car is doing what it's doing at the time it's doing it. Once you've gotten there, then you can start thinking about what changes you'd actually like to make to your stock tune.

Most importantly, don't expect any large power gain like the turbo guys get. The NA engine is already highly optimized. If someone managed to come up with a +10hp at redline (where the largest gains are to be made), I'd be really damn impressed.

On the 05 I'm tuning, with 94 oct, there's almost NO room for advanced timing. The most I'm up any place is 3* from stock and in a lot of places I'm down 4* from stock. That's on 94. When I tune it down to 87oct, it looks like I'll have to take out 5-6* across the board to keep it from knocking. All the 05s I've heard of getting worked on have needed that much retard. The timing from the factory is just really aggressive. A slight bit can be picked up by leaning the fueling out to a reasonable value rather than the stupid rich stock values. In other words, there's not much power to be had past the stock tune. The best you're going to do is to make it very slightly more fuel efficient and drastically reduce knock. For instance (and I'm not near done working on it), Above 5k, it's barely above stock, but from 2.5-4.5k, it's up about 7lbf-ft and 5hp

However, while you may not gain much power, there's HUGE drive-ability gains to be made. Getting ride of the CL->OL Transition Delay and making sure that when you are moderately in the throttle, it's actually fueling for best torque has made just huge gains in how the car feels. You put your foot down a little to pop that one more car ahead before a merge and the car just GOES. I wasn't even really away of the lag/reluctance before, but every throttle movement just feels like it unleashes much more urgency.

Last edited by williaty; 12-20-2007 at 11:39 PM.
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:34 PM   #5
formula91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
First of all, don't learn to tune solely from the internet. If you don't understand what you're doing, it's very easy to do something silly and blow up your engine. Before you do anything else, read some books. Start with How to Tune and Modify Engine Management Systems by Jeff Hartman and Engine Management: Advanced Tuning by Greg Banish. Then, go over to Innovate Motorsports (makers of the LC-1, which you'll probably need), and read basically everything in their Tuner Resources section. After that, get yourself an account on openecu.org and on the Enginuity Forums. Read everything on the Egninuity wiki about the different strategies the stock ECU uses to control different aspects of the engine. Finally, start focusing on the RS specifically by searching for posts made by my username in the Stock ECU Reflashes forum on here. I started out asking noob questions and have come a long way. I've also still got a long way to go. So far, I haven't seen anyone else trying to learn about the RS ECU, so the most informative thing to read is the Enginuity dev team's responses to my questions. Reading what they've said to me will, if nothing else, give you an idea of the things you still need to ask about. Finally, get a Tactrix cable and log the everlovin crap out of the stock tune. Log, log, log until you know what the car is doing under any conditions. You WILL find things in logs that surprise the crap out of you (not only about the car, but about the way you drive, logging on course can make you a better driver too). Then compare the logs to the maps from your ROM to figure out WHY the car is doing what it's doing at the time it's doing it. Once you've gotten there, then you can start thinking about what changes you'd actually like to make to your stock tune.

Most importantly, don't expect any large power gain like the turbo guys get. The NA engine is already highly optimized. If someone managed to come up with a +10hp at redline (where the largest gains are to be made), I'd be really damn impressed.

On the 05 I'm tuning, with 94 oct, there's almost NO room for advanced timing. The most I'm up any place is 3* fom and in a lot of places I'm down 4* from stock. That's on 94. When I tune it down to 87oct, it looks like I'll have to take out 5-6* across the board to keep it from knocking. All the 05s I've heard of getting worked on have needed that much retard. The timing from the factory is just really aggressive. A slight bit can be picked up by leaning the fueling out to a reasonable value rather than the stupid rich stock values. In other words, there's not much power to be had past the stock tune. The best you're going to do is to make it very slightly more fuel efficient and drastically reduce knock.

However, while you may not gain much power, there's HUGE drive-ability gains to be made. Getting ride of the CL->OL Transition Delay and making sure that when you are moderately in the throttle, it's actually fueling for best torque has made just huge gains in how the car feels. You put your foot down a little to pop that one more car ahead before a merge and the car just GOES. I wasn't even really away of the lag/reluctance before, but every throttle movement just feels like it unleashes much more urgency.
You rock my socks.
That and your recently posted RS ECU Learning technique both made my day. At 10:30 at night. lol
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Old 12-20-2007, 11:39 PM   #6
williaty
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Stay tuned to the learning thing. While it pumps IAM up right away, the other half of a quick reset is getting AF Learning to settle as quickly as possible. I'm working on figuring out how to do that right now.
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