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Old 12-28-2007, 03:18 PM   #1
AK SloPok
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Default Alcohol or Meth Injection Roll Call

I was wondering now that we have been without 92 octane for a while what folks have been experiencing with either meth or alcohol injection systems. I ran alcohol in my WRX and found that it ran super rich but other than that, never had a problem. I have also talked to a few SMC users who have had nothing but problems with either the pump or controller going bad and needing repairs. Is the current solution just to go with Torco? Have users found meth or alcohol to be better or worse than one another?

Gimme your thoughts... as I will/do need a solution to bump up to 93 as that is what my car "requires".
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:32 PM   #2
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*thread Jackin*

M-e-t-h-o-d Man!
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Old 12-28-2007, 03:39 PM   #3
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Torco
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:10 PM   #4
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i'm still running alky with out to much trouble, i also run torco every now and then, either way is going to set you up, i've sent my kit in a couple of times for various things, original seals need replacing, then sent it all back again for a complete upgrade, pump,seals and a new controller(had the v1 wanted the v2)
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:16 PM   #5
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Costs associated? Alcohol is 12 bucks a gallon, don't know about meth or torco...

Ratio for Torco is something like 1 oz per gallon for 3 pts? That sound right?
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:18 PM   #6
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i use 1/3 can per tank. gets me just about 93 ish.

not sure exactly, but I do know when Jarrad from PDX came up last May, he did all the road tuning and data logging. said it was a very noticeable difference b/w mine running my torco mix and even the guys running toulene. $20 per can, fill up my tank once every 5 days or so, depending on how much I'm driving.
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:31 PM   #7
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Ok, bumping up your octane is good, but it is not the solution to your problem. Torco is not a solution, it is an additive that requires tuning to get the full benefit out of. You say you run rich with your injection? I say that before you go dumping more liquids into your car, that you get retuned for what you have instead. I don't know where you are from but the atmospheric conditions here in Alaska are much different than other places.
I promise you, get a pro tune for what you have now and it will be cheaper in the long run and a lot less headache. We will be having a tuner coming up this spring if you would like to join us.

What injection kit are you using anyways?
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Old 12-28-2007, 04:41 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestrike View Post
Ok, bumping up your octane is good, but it is not the solution to your problem. Torco is not a solution, it is an additive that requires tuning to get the full benefit out of. You say you run rich with your injection? I say that before you go dumping more liquids into your car, that you get retuned for what you have instead. I don't know where you are from but the atmospheric conditions here in Alaska are much different than other places.
I promise you, get a pro tune for what you have now and it will be cheaper in the long run and a lot less headache. We will be having a tuner coming up this spring if you would like to join us.

What injection kit are you using anyways?
yes. very very true.
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Old 12-28-2007, 06:15 PM   #9
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I use Half a can a torco each fill up..

Last edited by WRXJAY03; 12-28-2007 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:47 PM   #10
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At this time Slopok isn’t using any fuel supplements. I think he's looking for a recommendation on what to use and why.

I'm sure he'll chime in with what he's driving.
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Old 12-28-2007, 07:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestrike View Post
Ok, bumping up your octane is good, but it is not the solution to your problem. Torco is not a solution, it is an additive that requires tuning to get the full benefit out of. You say you run rich with your injection? I say that before you go dumping more liquids into your car, that you get retuned for what you have instead. I don't know where you are from but the atmospheric conditions here in Alaska are much different than other places.
I promise you, get a pro tune for what you have now and it will be cheaper in the long run and a lot less headache. We will be having a tuner coming up this spring if you would like to join us.

What injection kit are you using anyways?
If my car REQUIRES 93 octane then how is adding octane to our lousy 90 a problem? I said I RAN RICH with my injection, I was running AccessPort at the time and track times showed less than stellar when running a 93 map with 83 octane. By the way I was with the original group on the SMC group buy way back when.

Born and raised homie... I am well aware of our density of air and it's effects on the tune of a turbo car. However, short of exporting the car to another area (all wheel dyno) I am not sure what your local solution is that you are recommending. How is the tuner going to tune on a dyno in AK that don't exist. Care to adivse?
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:05 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK SloPok View Post
If my car REQUIRES 93 octane then how is adding octane to our lousy 90 a problem? I said I RAN RICH with my injection, I was running AccessPort at the time and track times showed less than stellar when running a 93 map with 83 octane. By the way I was with the original group on the SMC group buy way back when.

Born and raised homie... I am well aware of our density of air and it's effects on the tune of a turbo car. However, short of exporting the car to another area (all wheel dyno) I am not sure what your local solution is that you are recommending. How is the tuner going to tune on a dyno in AK that don't exist. Care to adivse?
don't get your panties in a bunch!

It's called ROAD TUNE. do a search, a lot of us got road tuned and dyno tuned last May when Jarrad from PDX came up. and you CAN get your car tuned for 90. plenty of other people have done it, you just give up on some of your power. That is why my car is set up for 93/Torco mix. Jarrad has all my maps set up on the regular fuel mix I do plus a race map for 1/4 tank 90 + 32 oz Torco.

*edit* since you are here in Anchorage, you can ask Nick @ Underground. I know he has road tuned plenty of cars/trucks. Not sure on AP. Also look into Engenuity if you are comfortable tuning yourself.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:14 PM   #13
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^ Oh S*it Son!!! Its Bout To Pop Off!!!
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:25 PM   #14
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Does anyone have datalogs of o2 (wideband) with and without alcohol/meth or torco?

Road tunes is what we have been doing for 5 years now. I was hoping there was a better solution, not knock driven.
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Old 12-28-2007, 08:35 PM   #15
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Hope, I forgot to ask if you guys will have a 5 gallon or greater Torco solution? Buying bulk will save a ton of money of the long haul.
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:19 PM   #16
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Please excuse me.


I am saying that it is a lot easier to change your car's computer than it is to change amount of additive you put in to make your car happy. How do you know if you are adding the right amount of octane? Would you be reading any logs to see if what you are doing is what is right? In the computer you can change what it "REQUIRES".


AK your whole life? As far as I know, there has never been that high of octane here.


We did a RWD conversion for our cars on the dyno at Hale's Technical. It was very effective for all of us. There is always an alternative.

Take it easy.

Last edited by Firestrike; 12-28-2007 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firestrike View Post
Please excuse me.


I am saying that it is a lot easier to change your car's computer than it is to change amount of additive you put in to make your car happy. How do you know if you are adding the right amount of octane? Would you be reading any logs to see if what you are doing is what is right? In the computer you can change what it "REQUIRES".


AK your whole life? As far as I know, there has never been that high of octane here.


We did a RWD conversion for our cars on the dyno at Hale's Technical. It was very effective for all of us. There is always an alternative.

Take it easy.
Here we go

Chad,

What car is this for? I thought you got rid of the WRX? I still like alcohol injection the best. SMC's product has been proven time and time again. And with the right tune it will only help your car and IMO it's more cost effective than Torco. Hopefully I can finally get the car tuned for it this spring.

-Wes
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Old 12-28-2007, 09:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK SloPok View Post
Hope, I forgot to ask if you guys will have a 5 gallon or greater Torco solution? Buying bulk will save a ton of money of the long haul.
not sure just yet. We're trying to figure that out... cost effectiveness in bringing up a 55G vs just 5G drums. PM me... I can give you more details. We'll be putting in an order 1st of the month.
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Old 12-28-2007, 10:37 PM   #19
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Firestrike, we had 92 octane here for a while, Chevron was the last to pull out its 92 oct, this was back in 03 I believe. SOME stations I recall having 93 stickers on the tanks, I believe shell?? 92-93 is miniscual difference.

The SMC cars were decent cars, I think in AK we only had one guy with issues? that was more a faulty switch/pump if I recall. The Audi boys have been running alchie/water injection systems with great results.

both alch and water injection will be less per gallon than current rates of Torco. plus the injection will be IIRC on the SMC systems "as needed" or at the least varying intervals. Not to mention an installed injection system is a bit safer than torco rolling around in the trunk.

As for tuning, Mr Piggie told me on the Audi, that I could run the 93 tune on 92 fine, and when we were dropping to 91-90, said it coudl be done but watch knock. those that rode in it know even without Torco it still pulled like a mofo. no error or extreme retarding via Vagcom
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Old 12-29-2007, 12:56 AM   #20
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reading info on the various forums, Torco is pretty safe, even if it's a little more money than running alky injection because it is still a fuel. there have been a few folks who run alky and blow their engines because it needs more fuel. you don't have this problem running Torco. Personally, I prefer the Torco, it's safe even though it costs a little more. I'll take the safe route that still produces similar results (race maps). I thought about going alky, however after more research decided against it for now (and most likely won't be going that route on the next car). on the Legacy forums, many of the tuners found that a mixture with Torco produces better results than alky (race maps). In order to make it the most cost effective, you'd definitely want to order by bulk imo.
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Old 12-29-2007, 05:41 AM   #21
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Default Re: blowing engines

It's always going to be determined by the tune itself and how the system is set up. If you have the proper failsafes, blowing an engine becomes a much less likely occurrence. Aquamist has very good products with good failsafe options. Also, if you don't tune right to the bleeding limit then you will also decrease the chance of blowing an engine because of a bad tank of gas (or something else).
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Old 12-29-2007, 02:06 PM   #22
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Interesting thread. I have been thinking about this too. I have used Torco a little.

It seems like it comes down to:

Torco-- PRO:no added hardware to buy, install, maintain CON: additive costs more per mile

Alcohol Injection-- PRO: cheaper per mile CON: must buy and install kit, if injection system fails while under load, bad things happen...


Also, there are some folks who have reported discoloration and buildup in the combustion area using Torco. I haven't heard much about that for a while.

I guess alcohol injection can speed up corrosion in the intake area, as well.

Good luck.
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Old 12-29-2007, 03:19 PM   #23
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I run a wideband 100 percent in my car, the torco adds knock protection by raising the octane but it doesnt pull or add fuel, I think it was actually tested that it will make the timing adjust which will allow you to run more boost. but unless your self tuning it doesnt matter anywayz, cause things change cause of the temperate as mentioned, unless you can self control your fuel, timing, and boost there will never be a perfect situation up here, but you can be safe at least. I run alcohol and pull fuel to run it at high boost levels, i need to pull fuel right now since i changed fuel lines, its rich. Alcohol wont speed up corrosion in the intake area either. It will keep alot of stuff clean and you have to love the smell and eyes burning. Good luck with whatever you do.
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Old 12-29-2007, 10:59 PM   #24
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I ran 100% meth and it was cheap only 1.14 a bottle. I also ran torco to up the octane to 93 to be on the safe side as I ran 30.9 psi! However, I did have a failsafe along with a wideband to keep an eye on things.
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:24 AM   #25
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I would like to add, the SMC group buy had a JET that was to large for most of the cars it was installed in hence the bogging and richness. You were just taking 87-90 octane to 93, it was much different. It all comes down to the kit not being tuned for the car and alky coming on much to early in the rpm range...

ALKY FTW!
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