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Old 01-08-2008, 10:29 PM   #1
joshuagore
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Default NW Illinois dealership issues.

07 STi with 26k, never modified, cliffs below.

A few days before Christmas I heard what I would best describe as a 'bang' from my car as I pulled out of my driveway. From this point forward it was clear that my passenger’s side rear brake pad was toast.

I called a local dealership, Gary Lang, who although is primarily a GM dealership, also carries and services Subaru. I was told that they could take my car the day after Christmas. I came for a late morning appointment, and was told after my explanation that the brakes were not covered "the standard for wear items was/is 12 months 12,000 miles". I thought I had read otherwise, so I told him to take a look at my 2 other minimal concerns while I had the car there, but not to touch the brakes. Those concerns were remapping the ecu to get rid of early 2007 STi hesitation under acceleration, and a rear shock 'clunk', which had since disappeared, but is a known STi problem.

I then went home and read the Subaru Website.


Quote:
Wear Item Limited Warranty
Wear item coverage is 3 year or 36,000 miles, whichever comes first. Items covered are brake pad/shoe linings, clutch linings, and wiper blades.
http://www.subaru.com/owners/warranty/index.jsp

I called up my service rep, and explained what I had read. He discussed the situation with a service manager, and in his words 'I stand, corrected'. He then said his tech would take a look at the car later that afternoon, or the next morning. I received a call that afternoon stating that he couldn't get a tech on the car today, but first thing tomorrow he would. Around 8am the next morning he called and left a message stating that I did in fact need new rear brakes, rotors, but the service department was not able to get to my car until the end of January. I was a bit confused by this, but I took his word for it, and told him that I was going to have to go somewhere else for my work (I couldn't wait a month).

Later that night I went to pick up the car. When the service attendant drove my car around I noticed a door ding which was not on my car when I dropped it off. I was angry, and frustrated because in my year of ownership I had kept the car in what I considered to be mint condition. Luckily a service rep was there and he signed saying he saw the dent, and told me to see the service manager the next day. I called around 8am, and they told me to bring the car in first thing. They offered to fix the dent/ding and proceeded to schedule the appointment.

The day after new years I was pleasantly impressed by the performance of paintless dent removal. I was in and out in about an hour.


I forgot to mention that during the above time I had contact SOA and they contacted the service manager, who also stated that it was a 1 month delay. This was troubling as I had a friend call asking about a non warranty service, and they claimed to be able to do it immediately.

So now I have no dent, a sour feeling about Gary Lang, and a potential free oil change offered by SOA for my troubles.

I call North Shore Subaru (Highland Park) who immediately had a friendlier tone over the phone. The individual whose name I can't remember seemed rather helpful, and scheduled an appointment for the next day (January 8th). If you are wondering why the delay between New Years, and my call, it is because I called a closer dealer who told me the earliest they could get me in was January 15th, but they also suggested I call around.

So today I bring my car in and I thought I was speaking to the individual who spoke with me on the phone, but I guess not. He took in my car, and I drove home with a friend. I got a message from my service rep early that afternoon quoting me $1142 for rear rotors, and pads. I was confused by the brakes not being covered under warranty, and called back questioning. He said he would talk to the tech, and call me back. While waiting to hear back from the dealership I contacted SOA and explained the situation. SOA said I was in fact covered, and they would call the dealership. I told them NOT to call the dealership, as I didn't want to 'tattle' without giving them a chance to fix the car.

While I was on the phone with SOA the dealership called back and left another message stating that they were not going to do any warranty work, as it would be denied by SOA. I called back SOA, told them the update, and they said they would call the dealership because ‘he (SOA) doesn't understand the situation', which could mean he doesn't understand why my repair isn't being done, or that he needs to confirm my story with the service manager. He assured me he would call back before the end of business day, and he did, but with the bad news that the service manager had not yet called him and that I should expect a call from him tomorrow.


I reread the warranty, and I see it could be read that any warranty work requires there be a defect. Even if that argument stands, and a defect is needed for wear items, then I feel the defect could be the material coming off of the pads metal backing. This is not an issue where both pads worn evenly, but rather that one pad was fine one day and completely worn the next day.

I will keep people updated as SOA gets involved. I normally do all my own wrenching (a substantial amount, not just brakes, and oil changes), but seeing as this was my first new Subaru, I wanted to use what I paid for... my warranty.


Josh

CN: RR Pad seemed to fail suddenly. First dealership questioned it being warranty work, but quoted an almost immediate turnaround time, only to change their turnaround time to a month after they agreed it was warranty work. Car was picked up with door ding which dealership repaired FOC. Second dealership argued against the brake pad being a warranty claim. SOA is involved. Simple problem which if I had known would be such a PITA, I would have done myself, luckily I work from home so it has only cost me 1-2 hours on the phone, and 4 dealership trips.

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Last edited by joshuagore; 01-08-2008 at 10:35 PM.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:45 PM   #2
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I got my suby from north shore but i havent had to take it in for anything yet. But while I bought my car there finance manager wrote my David down instead of dan(hes euro and couldnt understand.) I had him fix it and I left. I get a letter a few weeks later for some discount stuff from there and guess whats on the letter? DAVID! I call back to have them change it and guess what the next letter says? David....lol

I think if they have that kind of stupidity to not be able to change a name....then I wouldnt expect their service department to be any better.
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Old 01-08-2008, 10:59 PM   #3
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If only one brake pad is worn, then something is mechanically wrong. Not only will the brake pads and possibly rotors need to be replaced, but what ever is causing the brake to "stick' This should definately be a matter for warranty.

Now, if the rear brakes were worn evenly, had hot spots on the rotors, or were damaged due to abuse, then you would be on your own. But that does not seem to be the case here.

It is true that brakes are covered 3/36, and if your advisor and/or dealership doesn't know this, SOA should further investigate. All wear items are covered for 3/36, brakes, bulbs, wipers, etc, mostly because SOA feels that they should last longer than that under normal driving conditions and if they don't they are defective to some degree.

Give SOA a chance to get to the bottom of this. Sometimes these things do take time.
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Old 01-08-2008, 11:20 PM   #4
joshuagore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dan13 View Post
I got my suby from north shore but i havent had to take it in for anything yet. But while I bought my car there finance manager wrote my David down instead of dan(hes euro and couldnt understand.) I had him fix it and I left. I get a letter a few weeks later for some discount stuff from there and guess whats on the letter? DAVID! I call back to have them change it and guess what the next letter says? David....lol

I think if they have that kind of stupidity to not be able to change a name....then I wouldnt expect their service department to be any better.
I will keep that in mind David.

Quote:
If only one brake pad is worn, then something is mechanically wrong. Not only will the brake pads and possibly rotors need to be replaced, but what ever is causing the brake to "stick' This should definately be a matter for warranty.

Now, if the rear brakes were worn evenly, had hot spots on the rotors, or were damaged due to abuse, then you would be on your own. But that does not seem to be the case here.

It is true that brakes are covered 3/36, and if your advisor and/or dealership doesn't know this, SOA should further investigate. All wear items are covered for 3/36, brakes, bulbs, wipers, etc, mostly because SOA feels that they should last longer than that under normal driving conditions and if they don't they are defective to some degree.

Give SOA a chance to get to the bottom of this. Sometimes these things do take time.
The service rep said the brakes had worn evenly 'but they never wear perfectly'. I believe his point was that the other pads were also worn, and needed to be replaced, but that still doesn't explain why I heard a bang while driving away, and that from that instance forward I heard grinding which sounded like metal on metal, only from the right rear, no other pads have squeeled no brake light has been on, and no other signs of wear have been seen. I want to also say that my trips were limited to mostly trips to and from the dealership.

Josh
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:48 PM   #5
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No word back yet, morning is about to pass. I called and left a message with SOA.

Josh
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:10 PM   #6
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how is the weather there? possibly your rear brake froze to the rotor and the bang sound was the result of it "breaking free" of the rotor?

Either way I find it almost impossible to believe that a simple pad and rotor replacement which can be done under 2 hours could not be scheduled until a month out. Sounds to me like the first dealership is simply trying to keep their warranty numbers down and convince you to take it someplace else. Which of course you did and now are stuck with dealership #2. At least both dealerships follow the same procedure... both quoted you brakes lol

Do you have a case number with SoA that the second dealership could have known about? See if you go to dealership A and get work denied by the dealership but ok'd by subaru, they should make a case number for you. That way when you go to dealership B, they just call SoA and get all the info. But its one thing for some person on the phone at SoA that just wants to make you happy but doesn't have any real authorization to ok the claim. Most claims need to be approved by a district SoA manager.

Anyway good luck.
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:22 PM   #7
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My pads freeze to my rotors a lot, too. But he would have felt it "release" when it popped.

As far as your situation - WOW ! I thought I was the only one who has luck like that ! I feel sure you'll come out on top in the end, if you ever get there !
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Old 01-09-2008, 02:40 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrik View Post
how is the weather there? possibly your rear brake froze to the rotor and the bang sound was the result of it "breaking free" of the rotor?

Either way I find it almost impossible to believe that a simple pad and rotor replacement which can be done under 2 hours could not be scheduled until a month out. Sounds to me like the first dealership is simply trying to keep their warranty numbers down and convince you to take it someplace else. Which of course you did and now are stuck with dealership #2. At least both dealerships follow the same procedure... both quoted you brakes lol

Do you have a case number with SoA that the second dealership could have known about? See if you go to dealership A and get work denied by the dealership but ok'd by subaru, they should make a case number for you. That way when you go to dealership B, they just call SoA and get all the info. But its one thing for some person on the phone at SoA that just wants to make you happy but doesn't have any real authorization to ok the claim. Most claims need to be approved by a district SoA manager.

Anyway good luck.

I had a claim with SOA during first dealership, that same claim was kept open when I called back regarding dealership 2. SOA was aware at the time that dealership 1 denied my brakes were a warranty issue at first, and later said it was a warranty issue.

Long story short SOA knows the entire scoop with dealer 1, and now dealer 2.

Josh
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Old 01-09-2008, 02:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okeyd57 View Post
My pads freeze to my rotors a lot, too. But he would have felt it "release" when it popped.

As far as your situation - WOW ! I thought I was the only one who has luck like that ! I feel sure you'll come out on top in the end, if you ever get there !

Thanks. I am in the midwest, but If I remember correctly it wasn't during one of our many snow/rain storms. If it was would the part be any less defective for coming apart during a situation like this? I still can't prove the pad seperated at that instance, but it seems likely as the brakes were fine, and then metal to metal.

We will see, I will keep everyone posted.

Josh
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Old 01-10-2008, 08:35 AM   #10
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I called SOA and SOA said they would call the dealership if the dealership didn't call them first. It ended up being a day with no initiated conversation by Dealer or SOA with myself. So SOA might have talked to the dealership, but surely didn't relay any findings to me.

Josh
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Old 01-10-2008, 09:50 AM   #11
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didn't read the whole thing, but Gerald and Grand Subaru are generally very good with repairs/warranty work.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:16 AM   #12
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the problem with grand subaru is they aren't open for service anytime outside normal business hours. no saturdays and during the week they close at 5 or 6.
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Old 01-10-2008, 10:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavrik View Post
how is the weather there? possibly your rear brake froze to the rotor and the bang sound was the result of it "breaking free" of the rotor?

Either way I find it almost impossible to believe that a simple pad and rotor replacement which can be done under 2 hours could not be scheduled until a month out. Sounds to me like the first dealership is simply trying to keep their warranty numbers down and convince you to take it someplace else. Which of course you did and now are stuck with dealership #2. At least both dealerships follow the same procedure... both quoted you brakes lol

Do you have a case number with SoA that the second dealership could have known about? See if you go to dealership A and get work denied by the dealership but ok'd by subaru, they should make a case number for you. That way when you go to dealership B, they just call SoA and get all the info. But its one thing for some person on the phone at SoA that just wants to make you happy but doesn't have any real authorization to ok the claim. Most claims need to be approved by a district SoA manager.

Anyway good luck.

most def
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Old 01-10-2008, 11:25 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JM530 View Post
didn't read the whole thing, but Gerald and Grand Subaru are generally very good with repairs/warranty work.
Thanks I will keep that in mind.

On another note. Why would Subaru, a company that is trying to go upmarket, put the customer through this. A buddy of mine said it best 'There are only a few car manufacturers that don't make you feel like an idiot for buying there car after you bring it in for service'. I spent 35k, why make me feel like an idiot. This and other ordeals have given me the impression that the only thing great about Subaru are the cars. That would be fine if they required nothing more than gas, oil, and tires (I will say that Subaru reliability is better than any other car I have ever driven).

Someone from SOA marketing, or PR needs to step up to the warranty underwriters, and lay down the law. That is assuming they do infact want to compete with the big boys. It seems they are trying, there has been great progress to Subaru cars in the past 5 years, but customer service needs to follow suit.

Ok rant off

Josh

Last edited by joshuagore; 01-10-2008 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 01-10-2008, 01:27 PM   #15
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I just recieved a phone call from the dealership. They said they had not heard back from Subaru regarding the warrenty work, but they had fixed the car regardless. I thought SOA was waiting on a call from the dealer, but regardless the gentlemen on the phone was friendly, and told me it was ready to be picked up.

After I pickup the car I will post confirming everything is resolved.

Josh
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Old 01-10-2008, 01:32 PM   #16
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well sounds like the dealership is putting forth an effort to help you out regardless of the delay in communication.
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Old 01-10-2008, 01:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuagore View Post
Someone from SOA marketing, or PR needs to step up to the warranty underwriters, and lay down the law. That is assuming they do infact want to compete with the big boys. It seems they are trying, there has been great progress to Subaru cars in the past 5 years, but customer service needs to follow suit.
That battle has been fought and is probably still being fought within the halls of SOA. It's a case of two completely separate departments with two completely different goals: Sales/Marketing on one side with the goal of profit/revenue generation and Warranty Compliance with the primary goal of cost control. And both departments get these goals and pressure placed on them by FHI. Believe it or not, Service is actually stuck in the middle, with most service/field reps wanting to help out the customer within reason as long as they're not abusing the cars and trying to scam something they're not entitled to. That's why most people say to be polite and calm and forthcoming if you ever have a meeting with a field rep...don't give them a reason not to help you by yelling or covering up mods. No department wants to give much of an inch at the expense of their respective numbers...Corporate America at its best. I agree, hopefully it is a battle that gets resolved if Subaru want to make serious steps towards their upmarket goal.
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Old 01-10-2008, 02:06 PM   #18
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well sounds like the dealership is putting forth an effort to help you out regardless of the delay in communication.
This is true.
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Old 01-10-2008, 02:09 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by bo9877 View Post
That battle has been fought and is probably still being fought within the halls of SOA. It's a case of two completely separate departments with two completely different goals: Sales/Marketing on one side with the goal of profit/revenue generation and Warranty Compliance with the primary goal of cost control. And both departments get these goals and pressure placed on them by FHI. Believe it or not, Service is actually stuck in the middle, with most service/field reps wanting to help out the customer within reason as long as they're not abusing the cars and trying to scam something they're not entitled to. That's why most people say to be polite and calm and forthcoming if you ever have a meeting with a field rep...don't give them a reason not to help you by yelling or covering up mods. No department wants to give much of an inch at the expense of their respective numbers...Corporate America at its best. I agree, hopefully it is a battle that gets resolved if Subaru want to make serious steps towards their upmarket goal.
I think that a policy change from up top regarding warranty claims could avoid much of the discussion. To bad we can't get numbers on a cost study from brands who do all maint for X miles. Makes me wonder if they save the money by eliminating entire departments, and cuttingi down on field reps. Not to mention building brand loyalty.

Josh

p.s. The above is speculation I know little to nothing about that industry.

Last edited by joshuagore; 01-10-2008 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:32 PM   #20
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Picked up my car last night. Front rotors are turned, and back rotors replaced. All pads have been replaced, car was washed.

I will say SOA made this happen, otherwise I would have gotten the default response that my brakes are not covered under warrenty. SOA said that only brakes that are 'abused' are not covered under warrenty.

Josh
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Old 01-11-2008, 04:41 PM   #21
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well in all fairness to the dealership, most cars that come in with low miles and no brakes are from abuse. Abuse is basicly a term for owner/operator was a dumb ass behind the wheel and doesn't know how to drive lol. Its not often a dealership gets defective brake pads on a subaru. Knowing that, most dealerships know they need SoA to say up front "yes we'll pay" before doing the work. Otherwise the dealership eats the bill. I know for a fact STi pads and rotors are not cheap.

Glad to hear it all worked out for you. Sometimes you just gotta kick the horse a little to move it along.
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:28 PM   #22
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Eh, Gary Lang Auto has terrible maintance, i went there to get a whinning noise looked at "that was pretty obvious and capable of hearing when normal driving" two days later they called me up saying they couldnt recreate the noise and they cant fix it then. The whole the the Subaru mechanic was like "oh yea, if it was broke id fix it it doesnt cost me anything, subaru pays it. id be more then happy" then keeps saying "subaru will bend over backwards for their customers, cause no one else will buy their cars"


leaving the dealership i was able to hear the whinning noise again , i hate that dealership. Gary Lang Auto
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:31 PM   #23
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Joshua - I thought the dealer called you back and said SOA never called them? Do you think SOA actually did and the dealer wasn't telling you that?
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Old 01-11-2008, 06:50 PM   #24
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Why didn't you leave the car at the first place and take a loaner? If it a warranty issue then the loaner should have been free!
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Old 01-11-2008, 07:18 PM   #25
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Why didn't you leave the car at the first place and take a loaner? If it a warranty issue then the loaner should have been free!
Not every dealership has participated in the dealership loaner car program. Even if they did... it would probably be unlikely they would keep him in one for a month. I'm thinking it was just an excuse to motivate him into taking it somewhere else.
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