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Old 02-01-2002, 11:28 AM   #1
ANZAC_1915
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Default new STi "best driver's car" from Top Gear

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Old 02-01-2002, 11:52 AM   #2
imprezawrxsti.com
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WOW! Some great competition! (M3,EVO, Boxster) I can't wait till the keys are in my hand.

JJ
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:38 PM   #3
MKIVSupra
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Yeah, you and me both.
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Old 02-02-2002, 01:42 AM   #4
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The British auto press is just gushing over the STi. I just got the Feb EVO where they pit the STi against a M3-SMG, 911 Carrera and a Supercharged Lotus Elise among others.

Here are a couple of quotes from the article:

"The STi is so fast on such a wide range of roads, you can't help thinking it shouldn't be allowed."

"The Impreza's awesome pace and all-weather ability make it one of the fastest cars money can buy"

Ok, I'm sold...SOA you can take my money at any time
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Old 02-02-2002, 09:52 PM   #5
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but will our STi WRX be unchanged from their version? if it stays unchanged, then i better start saving money now!

jz
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Old 02-03-2002, 05:53 AM   #6
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Old 02-03-2002, 01:32 PM   #7
imprezawrxsti.com
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Quote:
but will our STi WRX be unchanged from their version? if it stays unchanged, then i better start saving money now!
All things believable that I have heard, the only thing that will change in the US model is possibly the ECU and Exhaust. All other specs should remain about the same...

JJ
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Old 02-06-2002, 02:17 AM   #8
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Yeah, I posted those same quotes in the RMIC forum. JJ can attest to it. I was just amazed at how well it was ranked among that competition. Simply amazing. I can't wait.

-Brian
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Old 02-06-2002, 03:59 AM   #9
In2Deep
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Does anyone have the video yet?
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Old 02-06-2002, 07:52 PM   #10
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I'm with everyone here. Just let me know when they can take my deposit.
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Old 02-07-2002, 12:31 AM   #11
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Yeah, that would be great if they at least brough the UK spec STi here. Personally, I think downgrading it further wouldn't do the STi justice and would be a mistake on SOA's part especially considering the US EVO 7, it's only real competitor is quoted by Mitsubishi as having "at least 250 hp". Personally I think the STi will be more reliable overall and it will definitely understeer a little bit and maybe won't feel quite as fast as the EVO 7 but it is overall a more refined vehicle. The numbers of the JDM cars speak for themselves, I've seen identical 0-60mph and 0-100mph times for both cars but I understand the EVO 7 has the edge only in low-end torque and YAW computer assisted turns, in the other categories I feel the Subaru will come in first and that is what makes it great. For the real world driver though I think the minor shortcomings of the STi will be unnoticeable to all but the best of drivers and even then the difference will not be great when it comes to acceleration. Turning is the only thing where I think it would have a real world edge over the STi but even then the difference would be minimal and always come down to the driver since the cars are so evenly matched in terms of performance and handling. Make no mistake though, as much as I love the STi, I have to admit the EVO 7 is faster and handles better with less understeer like the magazines have said. I think the magazines are raving over the STi so much because to me it seems Subaru has combined performance, handling, fuel economy (20/27 mpg is impressive for a high performance car) and quality unlike no other car .
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Old 02-07-2002, 03:42 AM   #12
rmbrady
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What in the hell does "best drivers car" mean? Is it the most comfortable, for old lady drivers? Is it the fastest on a track,for racing drivers? Is it the best rallying car, for people who rally? Which driver are they talking about. Or perhaps that's what Subaru paid them to say, so they will have a nice new ad campaign showing the cover of the magazine and a quote that says "best Drivers Car".
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Old 02-07-2002, 04:07 AM   #13
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I think it meant that the car that many drivers thought it was worth the money to buy it. rather then spending 40 -50 grand to get a M3 or other car, which does gave you more horse power and performance, but is it worthy? or maybe i'm wrong.
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Old 02-07-2002, 09:12 AM   #14
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Default "best driver's car"

i think this quote from the EVO write up will make it a little clearer on what they mean by being a 'driver's car'

Quote:
The Evo VII is so crushingly competent, so ridiculously good, that it doesn’t leave the driver with much to do, except hang on and be battered by the ride. Fans of rear-wheel-drive performance cars may find it a little lacking in interaction, as its intelligent 4WD system seemingly comes up with all the answers before you’ve had a chance to think about what’s occurring beneath you.
from all the things i've read about the EVO, it seems that the car seems to drive itself (to a point, of course). which means that the driver's role in driving is diminished, as opposed to the STi, where the driver has to play a more active role in making the car respond.

hope that helps.
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Old 02-07-2002, 06:17 PM   #15
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When you consider the cars it was put along side for the award - EVO7, M3, Porche 911, you hopefully get the idea of what is meant by a 'driver's car'.

I own an STI7 and I have also had a test drive in the EVO7. The Evo just didn't get me excited. Yes, it was quick in a straight line, but it was not as good as the STI when cornering, particulary in the wet (a bit surprising considering all the electronics). It just wasn't a car I could live with.

The STI7 is my third Scooby, the last being a MY00 with full Prodrive handling and performance packs, and it is way ahead of it or any other Scooby I have driven (in case you ask: STI - inc RA, WRX - old and new, and P1).

Subaru have got this one just right and you guys have something to look forward to.
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Old 02-08-2002, 01:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by KenG
I own an STI7 and I have also had a test drive in the EVO7. The Evo just didn't get me excited. Yes, it was quick in a straight line, but it was not as good as the STI when cornering, particulary in the wet (a bit surprising considering all the electronics). It just wasn't a car I could live with.
KenG could you elaborate a little further on this lack of cornering ability - how exactly did it have worse cornering than the EVO7 ?? That flies in the face of every review I have read in the auto magazines (Top Gear, CAR, EVO, AutoCAR) - please explain.
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Old 02-08-2002, 06:16 PM   #17
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To correct your post, I said the STI7 was better than the EVO.

When taking a bend at speed in the wet (on a track I hasten to add) in the EVO it was sometimes necessary to induce some oversteer to get the front end pointing in the right direction so that some power could be applied on exit. Even a bit too much power when pulling out could cause some very un-nerving twitches at the back end. As it wasn't my car I refrained from pushing it too hard to see at what point I could make the back end flick round. An Armco barrier can do a lot of damage! I am sure in the dry it would be a lot better.

The STI on the other hand went exactly where you pointed it through and out of a corner, and there was no need to force any oversteer. In my opinion this is down to far better diff's, lower centre of gravity, better overall balance and well sorted suspension/geometry. The EVO on the other hand makes up for inferior basic handling by throwing electronics at the problem, and it felt like it. You are too remote from the car and have no direct control. Some people may like this (for goodness sake some people like auto boxes), I don't!

To qualify where I am coming from, I rallied for 4 years and have raced single seat and saloon cars over the last two. I trust my own judgement before that of a journalist as, at the end of the day it is my money and my safety that is at stake.

Between the EVO6 to STI5/6 there wasn't a great deal to seperate them. They have both matured, the STI is the better for it, but the EVO the worse.

Over a week in my own STI7 and I am still enjoying the experience like a kid let lose in a candy store.
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Old 02-09-2002, 03:49 AM   #18
shirokuma
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I'll second Ken G, the STI is a better driver's car.

Electronics are good for middling drivers, but for somebody that is actually fairly good, they just interfere with reflex action. A good driver anticipates the oversteer and understeer situations. Anticipation beats out reaction, which is what electronics do. The react to a situation that has already occurred.

There are a lot of factors that go into a driver's impression of a car. Those factors are not readily apparent on paper. A car that appears slower can feel better in person than the "faster" car.

The Evo is also based on a 120hp FWD platform, with all the compromises inherent to that. The electronics are necessary to overcome that fact. The STI is based on an AWD platform, and on a chassis designed for a minimum of 250hp.

And lest we forget, the engine note alone is important to a driver, and the Evo sounds like a badly tuned hairdryer, IMO.

The Boxer, however, ah, the Boxer....

Paul Hansen
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Old 02-09-2002, 04:32 PM   #19
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KenG & shirokuma:

For those of us (ok, me ) NOT so experienced with AWD (or RWD vehicles), would you still recommend the STi? All the articles mention the EVO's neutral handling characteristics, whereas (my impression anyway) the STi understeers in most situations, and oversteers at the limit.

I fully plan on taking some driver's classes, especially 'cause I want to be able to control oversteer situations, and fully understand what can cause them.

I'm probably like a lot of Subaru buyers these days: All I've ever driven are FWD cars and very understeering AWD cars.
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Old 02-09-2002, 06:01 PM   #20
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Tricky one to give you an answer on. If you want a car where the electronics 'dial out' any of the normal behaviour of an AWD car, then go EVO or Skyline, as both keep you at arm's length from the true nature of the car itself. That's why it is so neutral!

For most road use some understeer isn't a bad thing, so I wouldn't get too paranoid about it. It is different on a track and I could spend a whole day trying to get the right set-up in a single seater and then have to re-do it for the next track. It can never be perfect.

I prefer the car to be predictable and give me some feedback as to what is going on. Too many aids can fool you into thinking you are a great driver and one day you will push something a bit too far with serious consequences. There has been great concern in Europe about the over-engineering of some Merc and Porche models for this very reason.

I can live with the small amount of understeer in the STI7 as it behaves itself so well in all other respects and is absolutely predictable. The only unknown is me and any stupid mistakes are mine, not the cars.

If you want to drag race, buy the EVO, if you want to have fun round the twisty bits, buy an STI7. Here in the UK the STI7 is $,7,000 cheaper, has half of the servicing costs and better third party support. Over here Subaru rules.

Trust me, you'll love it when it arrives. Instead of thinking of it as an upgraded WRX, think of it as a grown up P1 with two extra doors.

Ken
UK
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Old 02-16-2002, 08:40 AM   #21
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Thumbs up Hope EVERYONE reads KenG's post!

As one who drives lots of cars, I can say that the points Ken raises are spot on!

Also, to reiterate some stuff about the Evo and many of the gizmo aided cars out there: you cannot beat physics, and being insulated from the action (like I have felt in various Evos, Porsches, Audis, M and AMG cars - among others - for a few years) is never a good thing, for when things go wrong, the results are never good and always a nasty surprise.

In the end you pic the car you want, but the STi is a more honest car IMHO, with no fluffy electronics or other stuff getting in the way of the driver knowing what's going on. And as long as you are familiar and respectful with the physics of driving/motorcars, it will serve you well on public roads and closed tracks - safe and solid in bad conditions, fun and fast when the moment is right.

danc - my hat is off to you - someone may remember me going on about advanced driving courses in the past...they can save your life AND make driving a much more fun experience. I continue to do one or 2 a year in between racing, track days and other fun (oh, and a little work when I have time ) and thoroughly recommend them to anyone, not just drivers of high performance cars.

Getting off the shoe box on going back to my cupboard now

Cheers
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Old 02-16-2002, 08:58 PM   #22
titsataki
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you guys keep one thing in mind...
In the US we started buying WRXx sight unseen never mind testdrving them...

I got my WRX that way. I am sure for a while the EVO and the STi will be like that. Plus all the idiotic things that the dealers will do mark ups and overcharging....

So this is why we ask questions and sort of doubt many things...

Myself as well has minimum AWD experience (first car).

I love my WRX no doubt. I am getting closer to make decision to trade up to an STi or an EVO. I do not race I do not rally I most likely am blind to all these feelings (set up that is never perfect etc etc...)

I also plan to take a course in performance driving but until then I still wonder..

Thanks for all the good info.

Cheers

T.
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Old 02-20-2002, 06:38 PM   #23
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The EVO VII electronics that everyone is bashing (and indeed I'd like to jump on that bandwagon as well) is a feature only found standard on the top trim EVO7GSR.

If you get the RS or RSII (think of it as a Type R/RA EVO VII, shorter gearing in 1st, lighter) which comes without the newly integrated ACD/AYD as a standard feature, it's less expensive and more raw so to speak. Course there are other things like the Brembos and Recaros which aren't standard either but that's another story...

Unfortunately, and there has been plenty of speculation, but I am convinced no one knows what the USDM new age STi's or the USDM EVO VII's will be equipped with, if they're coming here at all. Trust no one... yeah I know Mitsu said it's coming but by now I'm skeptical. So at this point, we are comparing apples to oranges and can talk till we're all blue in the face but that's not going to change anything. This of course doesn't apply to you lucky sods living overseas!
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