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Old 02-01-2002, 12:48 PM   #1
jackwrx
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Default Do I abuse my car?

By driving my car in parking lots at speeds up to 55mph while avoiding cones am I abusing it? According to SOA if there is a stop watch I must be because that action voids the warranty, but no watch means it's not a race so there's no abuse?

Does race = abuse? Or, does aggresive driving = abuse?

Is the solution to buy a second set of tires to put on the car when I take it to the dealer?

How about because I'm not granny I don't get a warranty. My feeling is if they wont warranty parts because of abuse then they should refund some of the money that a buyer spent on the car. If the warranty is part of the car and you don't get the warranty after abusing the vehicle then it would be like they took back an option for which you've paid. It almost seems illegal to revoke a warranty without giving something back to the customer. In the end they either have to fix the problem or give you back money equal to the cost of a warranty.
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Old 02-01-2002, 01:20 PM   #2
WRXSTi69
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Default Re: Do I abuse my car?

Quote:
Originally posted by jackwrx
My feeling is if they wont warranty parts because of abuse then they should refund some of the money that a buyer spent on the car. If the warranty is part of the car and you don't get the warranty after abusing the vehicle then it would be like they took back an option for which you've paid.
Please do this: take your computer, spill an entire thermos of coffee inside it. Make certain you get the keyboard, too. Now, when the computer stops working, bring it back to where you bought it. Demand they fix it for free, or, if not, demand a partial refund on your purchase price.
Auto manufacturer warranties protect you from MANUFACTURING DEFECTS or problems arising from NORMAL, LEGAL USE OF YOUR VEHICLE. To attempt to offer coverage (free parts and labor) of every part of the car, no matter what the owner does to it, would be so costly, I doubt you could have afforded your car. Warranty costs are computed and added to the manufacturing price of every vehicle. Just walk into a race shop, plunk down a whole lot of money for a full-blown, race-ready car, and ask them what kind of warranty it comes with. Those guys work hard, they could all use a good laugh....
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Old 02-01-2002, 03:11 PM   #3
jackwrx
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wrxsti69, Alright smart ass I didn't say that I purposefully did something to the car I knew would ruin it and expect anything in return. Your analogy doesn't really come close to what I'm trying to convey. You act like I'm saying that if I cut my brake lines and took the car back expecting the brake lines to be repaired I would be pissed if they told me to get lost. Of course I wouldn't expect anything at that point. Thanks for your input, but it's not the same thing at all.

I'm talking about an extremely subjective thing here. It's called vehicle treatment. This seems to be a major topic with SOA right now. They are attempting to skip out on warranty work brought in by regular folks with stock vehicles that may or may not have abused the car. There is no way that a SOA rep can prove a car has been abused unless they have it on video tape or some other sort of concrete evidence. So, how can they refuse to work on a car under warranty. How can they prove the car has been abused.

To address this comment, Auto manufacturer warranties protect you from MANUFACTURING DEFECTS or problems arising from NORMAL, LEGAL USE OF YOUR VEHICLE.

By the way it's not illegal to enter an SCCA event and it's not abnormal to drive the car at speeds of 55 miles an hour hit the brakes turn around and do it again. I'm not talking about rally racing or running a bunch of track days and expecting the car to not have issues. Which by the way, I believe track day events do not void the warranty where as a simple auto cross does.

I'm just frustrated that after spending close to 30 grand on a car from SOA (yes I financed through them too) they have the balls to refuse warranty work on a tranny or clutch because 'the re92's are worn on the edges'.
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Old 02-01-2002, 05:58 PM   #4
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WRXSTi69-

I think you'll sing a different tune when you bring your car in for a warranty repair on a synchro, gear, or diff problem that wasn't your fault and they say no because your tires are worn or cuffed... I admit, I had close to your same attitude, until I went through the warranty process myself.
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Old 02-01-2002, 07:01 PM   #5
WRXSTi69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Buttsy
WRXSTi69-

I think you'll sing a different tune when you bring your car in for a warranty repair on a synchro, gear, or diff problem that wasn't your fault and they say no because your tires are worn or cuffed... I admit, I had close to your same attitude, until I went through the warranty process myself.
Since you brought up the transmission: all it takes is an inspection of the innards of the trans to see if it was abused or not. If the tapers on the gears and synchro sleeves are rounded off, *somebody* either missed a shift, or tried to shift so quickly the synchros didn't have time to do what they are designed to do. If this is found, and the synchro is not found to be defective (easy enough to tell with a few simple measurements) then the unit was abused.
Show me ONE PERSON on this board who can HONESTLY say they NEVER abused the gearbox (missed a shift, or shifted so quickly they heard a grind) and still has problems with the gearbox. I've pulled apart Suby trannys with well over 100,000 miles on them for a noisy bearing, and the synchros all looked like they were brand new - never had to touch them.
Bottom line: you want to play race car with your street car? You're gonna break things. It's a fact of racing. Unless you have a sponsor willing to foot the bill, be ready to shell out the money yourself. Or, only race as hard as you can afford to.
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Old 02-01-2002, 08:31 PM   #6
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Quote:
According to SOA if there is a stop watch I must be because that action voids the warranty, but no watch means it's not a race so there's no abuse?

Does race = abuse? Or, does aggresive driving = abuse?
You can abuse your car by driving it very hard on the street. An example would be a 6000 RPM clutch dump in 1st or a powershift to 2nd (ie gas pedal held down).

SOA's warranty is also void if the vehicle is used in a race. They do not go any further to define what that actually means.

Glenn
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Old 02-01-2002, 11:35 PM   #7
Jon [in CT]
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Actually, Subaru does "define" race a little bit further. From the Warranty and Maintenance booklet:
Quote:
The car is not eligible for warranty coverage ... if the car is ever used in any race or other competitive event.
It seems to me that an autocross IS a competitive event and, as such, would void your New Car and Powertrain warranties from SOA. This is completely separate from damage caused by abuse. If you don't like the SOA warranty terms and conditions, maybe you should buy some aftermarket breakdown insurance.
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Old 02-03-2002, 12:54 AM   #8
StormShadow
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Question HOLD ON.......

OK, now Im thoroughly confused, then why with the new WRX cars, does SOA offer a one year SCCA membership with the purchase of a brand new car? If "racing", whatever the definition is, voids all the warranties, then why would the sign you up with a racing association when you purchase the damn car? Help me out, and dont be smart asses about it.........thanks everyone
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Old 02-03-2002, 03:25 AM   #9
NiceguyOnSubySt
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Default Good point...

...but the free SCCA membership is a marketing thing that I think actually benefits the SCCA, not SOA. It is only an "offer". It is not a promise that the WRX can handle "racing" unscathed, nor do they require you to participate, nor do they offer any discounts on the purchase price if you sign up with the SCCA. But yes, I could see service agents at Subaru dealerships all across the country slapping their foreheads when they heard of this SOA/SCCA promo!
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Old 02-03-2002, 05:54 AM   #10
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Old 02-03-2002, 11:27 AM   #11
WRXSTi69
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Default Re: HOLD ON.......

Quote:
Originally posted by StormShadow
OK, now Im thoroughly confused, then why with the new WRX cars, does SOA offer a one year SCCA membership with the purchase of a brand new car? If "racing", whatever the definition is, voids all the warranties, then why would the sign you up with a racing association when you purchase the damn car? Help me out, and dont be smart asses about it.........thanks everyone
SCCA is always looking for qualified corner marshalls.

You can join the SCCA without even owning a car of any type. SCCA membership doesn't automatically make you a race car driver. Come to think of it, neither does owning a performance car.
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Old 02-03-2002, 12:35 PM   #12
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Yes, I know that. I have been an SCCA member for almost two years now, so I understand how the whole thing works. I was just curious why they would wave that in front of a customer, and then say that they can't race, because inevitably when people see their a member , their going to sign up for Solo divisions and all of that, or at least I did, maybe Im just wierd and wannarace sanctioned, instead of running on public roads....I dont know
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Old 02-04-2002, 11:32 AM   #13
jackwrx
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I understand that a manufacturer can't provide a warranty on a car that covers everything that could possibly be done to it. I also know they can't cover parts on racecars. However, I FEEL that a company with all the claims of SOA (racing heritage, rally this rally that) should not being using excuses like they are. The car is portrayed as a vehicle that can be driven aggressively over many conditions. I get the feeling they should market the car for what it is. It is not designed to withstand anything you see in our advertisements. There should be warnings on commercials that driving the vehicle as shown will void the warranty. If in fact the warranty would be voided for driving the car as advertised. They should not be allowed to show that drift down a dirt road in the blue WRX commercial every 20 minutes on speedvision (believe me I like seeing, but it makes me want to do it too). Then, when I come in with a warranty issue it's not covered. I wasn't even driving the car as hard as I had seen in the commercial. All I'm saying is don't give me a free membership to a RACING CLUB, show me commercials of the car being abused only to tell me I don't get what was advertised in the end.

I have a feeling that if this issue is pushed we will start seeing disclaimers at the bottom of every car commercial stating that the car can't do what you're seeing with out possible damage and a voided warranty. This would include the Altima and Miata commercials where they do 360ís. It will get dumb enough to even include the Dodge commercial where the viper does a flip over the other vehicles. I know a disclaimer as such is obvious, but we live in a world that has warnings like 'don't iron your clothes while wearing them'.
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Old 02-04-2002, 11:57 AM   #14
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They will probably have to stop offering SCCA memberships. Thats to bad.
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Old 02-04-2002, 12:09 PM   #15
StormShadow
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So am I to understand correctly that is I did something like SCCA RallyCross, I would completely void my warranty if something broke? Im confused as to why Subaru markets the WRX as the street version of the Rally winning Impreza, but then has all these warranty problems. I know they can't warranty racing, but it sounds like a lot of people are getting hassled over undue wear, eventhough they weren't abusing their car. Thoughts please......
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Old 02-04-2002, 12:18 PM   #16
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I wouldnt worry too much about it. You will always have problems with dealerships, you will always have to bitch and threaten and tell them HOW THINGS ARE GOING TO BE. Its life, they are in the business to make money on cars and save money on warrenty repairs. As long as you dont race your car, the god damn warrenty WILL be honored. <-- period
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Old 02-04-2002, 03:32 PM   #17
StormShadow
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Quote:
Originally posted by mlambert
... Its life, they are in the business to make money on cars and save money on warrenty repairs. As long as you dont race your car, the god damn warrenty WILL be honored. <-- period
Ok, I understand that, and it makes sense about the dealerships standpoint of making money. I am just curious if it is just SOA or other car companies that void warranties if you do SCCA work with your car? Also, they could say almost any wear can come from 'racing' when you may drive it a little harder than they think it should be driven. I think thats what these guys are trying to say....

Turn on the flames, cause I know their coming:monkey:
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Old 02-04-2002, 05:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
The car is not eligible for warranty coverage ... if the car is ever used in any race or other competitive event.
You could argue a show'n'shine is a competitive event, or a bass thumping competition is; so, they really don't define if autocross falls into that definition or not.

What if you run "time only"? What if you do a driving school?

Glenn
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Old 02-04-2002, 05:20 PM   #19
jackwrx
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Glen, Stormshadow - Thanks for making this more of a discussion then an attack on my questions. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong necessarily I just wanted some other opionions. And, no I don't mean to beat a dead horse. I know there are tons of other threads discussing the SCCA membership, autocross and other forms of racing. However, I think it's becoming pretty apparent that this car isn't going to quite live up to the marketing we have all seen.

You can't treat the car as shown in writing or on commercials and expect SOA to warranty every last part.

I'm just saying SOA should have a big disclaimer to cover their own ass on this thing. I know not as many would buy the car in the end, but come on there should be more truth in advertising.

The WRX is a kick ass turbo all wheel drive car. It's not a rally car, track car, autocross car, street racer car that has a warranty. So, SOA quit hiding behind all the BS and sell it as such. A kick ass daily driver that has a warranty as long as you baby it.

You should tell customers when they sign the papers that if they return for warranty work and the dealer finds worn out tires the car will be labeled as abused. They should make us sign an agreement. Until then if they are going to show me a professional driver doing big drifts in a fully optioned WRX I want my warranty on my stock WRX when I do the same thing.
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Old 02-04-2002, 05:44 PM   #20
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I know tha not any car sold by any company is marketed as a race car or rally car for the streets. (excpet maybe some of the highest high end cars, Porsche Viper, M3GTR, etc). But the Maxima isnt a race car, and yet the commercial shows it flying across the desert and doing 360's, not what the car was made to do, but it CAN do it. The WRX is a good street race/ rally car stock, but with work, it can be REALLY good. Otherwise they wouldn't base their rally cars of this platform, even if they are on steriods in the rally world. You can't expect a full prepped rally car for the street for under 30K. Anyways, I know this car is a good racer because since it was released here it has been eating up the SCCA circuits, and the ProRally format has won so many races I can't remember them all. So the car does have history, it just isnt an out of the box rally car, and isnt advertised as such. It is advertised as coming from the same lineage as the WRC cars, no that it IS a WRC car. If you know this, then you can work to make it perform like a rally car, but I know for a fact that Cheverolet does not offer much if any warranty coverage on the C5's (we have one), and those ARE raceable cars!! It just has to be taken in perspective........
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Old 02-05-2002, 01:49 AM   #21
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Getting warranty work done by a dealer is like war. I would lie cheat and manipulate to get taken care of. If your tire sidewall is scrubbed up a little, they won't warranty your tranny because you were "racing it" What does one thing have to do with the other, taking turns fast is different than drag racing. They (the dealer) try to screw you every time and people defend them.. I just don't get it.
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Old 02-05-2002, 02:27 AM   #22
AnimalMother
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Question

should I or should I not enter my car into an auto-x in a few weeks???

and I was getting excited for it and everything...damn...
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Old 02-05-2002, 05:32 PM   #23
NightmareOnSubySt
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Thumbs up Autox?

Go for it! It's the most fun you'll ever have in the front seat! Just air up your tires real good so they don't rollover onto the sidewalls and make sure they don't publish your name in the local newspaper when you take first place!

HOWEVER, ...just be aware that you are participating in a "competitive event/race" and will be responsible for it's consequences.

Last edited by NightmareOnSubySt; 02-05-2002 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 02-05-2002, 07:09 PM   #24
Buttsy
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Hear hear, Nightmare. The jury's still out on this subject, for me anyway. Think I'll be autocrossing my Sunbird for a while, instead of the WRX.
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Old 04-15-2002, 01:21 PM   #25
narenji
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Default sorry to dig this up but...

I posted something here, but I think my concerns may be better answered if I post a new topic in the newbies forum (I am a newbie afterall)...

Last edited by narenji; 04-15-2002 at 05:38 PM.
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