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Old 01-06-2014, 11:59 PM   #1
WRBlueJ
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Question Opinions on Torco Oils?

Anyone have experience with Torco Motor/Gear oil? I can't seem to find any info on them on Nasioc or any other Impreza forum. A local suby shop sells Torco SR-1 and SR-5 Motor oils as well as RGO and SGO gear oils. Supposedly they aren't API certified and are thus free to use more robust additive packages (or something along those lines, I'm no tribologist) and claim 'wear and friction reduction'. Another shop said they wouldn't touch Torco with a 10' pole, wouldn't say why. I'm assuming it was a bad batch as Torco states on their bottles "Torco's commitment to developing and improving technology is a continuous effort. This may result in slight color and odor variations in out products from time to time" can't decide if that's a good virtue or a red flag. Anyway the shop that sells Torco swears by it and runs it in all their cars without ill effects (as far as I know).

I've been running Rotella T6 for the last couple oil changes and have been happy with the performance and UOA's, gas mileage seems to be the only downside. One downside I've heard of is that RT6 doesn't flow as well in WRX's as OEM spec 5W30's as it's a thicker oil meant for much more powerful diesel trucks. Most people (inlcuding myself) run RT6 because of the protection it offers as well as resistance to sheering down like many 5W30's. It has been tried and tested by thousands of WRX/STi owners with mostly positive reviews/UOA's, and I don't doubt it's capability in the above two categories. But how much performance are we sacrificing by running a 5W40? Wouldn't a 5W30 or 10W30 with a (supposedly) more robust additive package like Torco's be the best of both worlds? Or does the thickness of RT6 not really matter?
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:26 AM   #2
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d0000000000000d....you are pissing in the wind

the rotella is a 5w40 and is fine for 95% of our dear deer board members

and 'peroformance sacrafice'???? yer killin me here...KILLIN ME

if ya want a lil less viscus oil......buy the 0w40 M1 and be done with it....5qt jug at wallyworld is under $25 and done

boutique oils will just drain yer wallet and make somebody else rich.....especially if you are stupid enough to dump them at 3k mile intervals like the other idiots do.
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:20 AM   #3
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Let me rephrase...
Quote:
Originally Posted by WRBlueJ View Post
(I'm obviously no tribologist)


Here's my reasoning though: it is established that RT6 reduces fuel economy due to the increase thickness of the oil. SO, if it reduces fuel economy (by about 1-2 mpg in my experience compared to a 5W30) would it not reduce the performance of the engine in a similar fashion (i.e. slower to rev up)? Most common 5W30's are API certified and use basically the same safe/clean but weaksauce additive blends ... wouldn't the ideal oil be a 5W30 that has an additive package such that wear and shearing down are not an issue? I was hoping Torco would be that oil.

But I guess your point is that's mostly fairy dust that isn't worth the price, and you're right that Torco is expensive as ****, I'm just wondering what sort of benefit could be seen by switching to it or something like it. Anyway, I've seen money spent on far more pointless **** like Beatrush's propeller shaft mt.'s and lightweight alternator pulley

As for OCI, I'll go with whatever Blackstone recommends.

As a sidenote, the decrease in fuel economy is one of the main reasons I brought this up as I commute a lot. I'll look into 0W40 M1 vs RT6 but unless I find some cheap fairy dust I'll probably stick with good ol' RT6

Last edited by WRBlueJ; 01-07-2014 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:18 AM   #4
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that's pixie dust


pixie dust

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Old 01-07-2014, 04:57 AM   #5
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Ok bear with me and my lack of a tribology degree (I'll make sure to get one before posting about oil here )

Now, I drive about 16k miles per year, averaged ~22.5 mpg with 5W30 and ~21mpg with RT6. 91 octane averages $3.75 where I live and that's pretty generous. So:

(16k mi)/(1 year) x (1 gal)/(22.5 mi) x ($3.75/1 gal) = ~$2700/year (sig figs, yo)

(16k mi)/(1 year) x (1 gal)/(21.0 mi) x ($3.75/1 gal) = ~$2900/year

That's $200/year in my pocket for running a 5W30. Lets say I change my oil 3x per year around 5k mi. 5qt of RT6 costs about $30 so that's $90 per year.

So I've got about $290 (lets round down to $250 to be fair in case the numbers aren't 100% accurate) to play with in terms of finding a good, reliable but probably expensive blend of 5W30 'pixie dust' and not losing $$ over running RT6, with the additional benefit of slightly faster revs/ slightly less sluggish performance (no, I am not calling my car sluggish overall)

Now, I started this thread because I believe it is at least worth looking into. But maybe all of this pissing in the wind is clouding my vision
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRBlueJ View Post
Ok bear with me and my lack of a tribology degree (I'll make sure to get one before posting about oil here )

Now, I drive about 16k miles per year, averaged ~22.5 mpg with 5W30 and ~21mpg with RT6. 91 octane averages $3.75 where I live and that's pretty generous. So:

(16k mi)/(1 year) x (1 gal)/(22.5 mi) x ($3.75/1 gal) = ~$2700/year (sig figs, yo)

(16k mi)/(1 year) x (1 gal)/(21.0 mi) x ($3.75/1 gal) = ~$2900/year

That's $200/year in my pocket for running a 5W30. Lets say I change my oil 3x per year around 5k mi. 5qt of RT6 costs about $30 so that's $90 per year.

So I've got about $290 (lets round down to $250 to be fair in case the numbers aren't 100% accurate) to play with in terms of finding a good, reliable but probably expensive blend of 5W30 'pixie dust' and not losing $$ over running RT6, with the additional benefit of slightly faster revs/ slightly less sluggish performance (no, I am not calling my car sluggish overall)

Now, I started this thread because I believe it is at least worth looking into. But maybe all of this pissing in the wind is clouding my vision
Check your tire pressure regularly and you'll see more consistent mileage improvements than using fancy pants oil.
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:39 AM   #7
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I used Torco oils in a previous engine-it had special oil needs though. Its good stuff, but $$$$ as hell.

If you've won the Powerball, I would suggest running the SR5. (Or the SR4 if you use E85)

Otherwise its a major wast of money.

I have a few bottles of their ZDDP additive I use sometimes with oil that doesn't have much of its own.

I've also used the TORCO RTF. I'm a big fan of it.(again, ran it in a different transmission) & I ran it in my 5mt for a bit. Shifted way better than the Extra-s did.

But, I didn't run it long enough to see how it worked out longterm.

I will be putting the RTF in my 6mt, next fluid change. (and probably their gear oil/limited slip additive, in the r180.) Currently have Motul 300LS.
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRBlueJ View Post
Anyone have experience with Torco Motor/Gear oil? I can't seem to find any info on them on Nasioc or any other Impreza forum. A local suby shop sells Torco SR-1 and SR-5 Motor oils as well as RGO and SGO gear oils. Supposedly they aren't API certified and are thus free to use more robust additive packages (or something along those lines, I'm no tribologist) and claim 'wear and friction reduction'. Another shop said they wouldn't touch Torco with a 10' pole, wouldn't say why. I'm assuming it was a bad batch as Torco states on their bottles "Torco's commitment to developing and improving technology is a continuous effort. This may result in slight color and odor variations in out products from time to time" can't decide if that's a good virtue or a red flag. Anyway the shop that sells Torco swears by it and runs it in all their cars without ill effects (as far as I know).

I've been running Rotella T6 for the last couple oil changes and have been happy with the performance and UOA's, gas mileage seems to be the only downside. One downside I've heard of is that RT6 doesn't flow as well in WRX's as OEM spec 5W30's as it's a thicker oil meant for much more powerful diesel trucks. Most people (inlcuding myself) run RT6 because of the protection it offers as well as resistance to sheering down like many 5W30's. It has been tried and tested by thousands of WRX/STi owners with mostly positive reviews/UOA's, and I don't doubt it's capability in the above two categories. But how much performance are we sacrificing by running a 5W40? Wouldn't a 5W30 or 10W30 with a (supposedly) more robust additive package like Torco's be the best of both worlds? Or does the thickness of RT6 not really matter?
The answer is in the second sentence of your post. If you search bobistheoilguy using google, you can find some old threads there.

You definitely don't need to be concerned about oil flow in the Bay Area. Even though most 5W-30's will be thinner than most 5W-40's, all 5W-x oils are tested at -30C.

http://www.pqiamerica.com/coldcrank.htm

Regarding your comment about a robust 5W-30 to achieve better fuel economy, there's a thread somewhere on here that discusses robust 5W-30's. But those oil have a high High Temp High Shear (ideally around 3.5 or higher) and HTHS viscosity pretty much rules fuel economy instead of the actual kinematic viscosity (oil grade on the bottle). An oil that is labeled as Resource Conserving has an HTHS of 3.4 or lower and many of us don't run them. I've used thin 5 and 0W-30's, and thick 5W-40's, but I really don't notice much difference in fuel economy because my driving conditions can vary so much. I believe your right foot controls fuel economy over slight differences in oil thickness.

The Holy Trinity for Subaru turbos is German Castrol 0W-30, Mobil1 0W-40, and Rotella T6 5W-40. These are all robust oils that vary slightly in thickness, but none meet GF5 Resource Conserving specs for fuel economy because they have an HTHS of 3.5 or higher and higher levels of anti-wear additives. I haven't checked their data sheets, but I suspect Torco oils to have a high HTHS so you probably wouldn't be getting much of an improvement in fuel economy over the Holy Trinity oils. Between the three oils that I mentioned, they pretty much cover most of the oil specs, approvals, and certtifications out there.

Trade the WRX for an Impreza if you're really concerned about fuel economy.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 01-07-2014 at 10:42 AM.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoreo View Post
Check your tire pressure regularly and you'll see more consistent mileage improvements than using fancy pants oil.
I do check tire pressure fairly regularly and run ~35psi all around. Although I may try 37f/35r

Quote:
Originally Posted by point78 View Post
I used Torco oils in a previous engine-it had special oil needs though.
Did it ride in the short bus? Oddly enough I haven't won the powerball, and seeing as I'm only stage 2 at the moment as far as engine/power mods go so no special oil needs here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Trade the WRX for an Impreza if you're really concerned about fuel economy.
whoa... WHOA! Trade? And start over from square 1? I'm in too deep, man. I wouldn't trade her if she got 15mpg (/s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Regarding your comment about a robust 5W-30 to achieve better fuel economy, there's a thread somewhere on here that discusses robust 5W-30's. But those oil have a high High Temp High Shear (ideally around 3.5 or higher) and HTHS viscosity pretty much rules fuel economy instead of the actual kinematic viscosity (oil grade on the bottle). An oil that is labeled as Resource Conserving has an HTHS of 3.4 or lower and many of us don't run them. I've used thin 5 and 0W-30's, and thick 5W-40's, but I really don't notice much difference in fuel economy because my driving conditions can vary so much. I believe your right foot controls fuel economy over slight differences in oil thickness.

The Holy Trinity for Subaru turbos is German Castrol 0W-30, Mobil1 0W-40, and Rotella T6 5W-40. These are all robust oils that vary slightly in thickness, but none meet GF5 Resource Conserving specs for fuel economy because they have an HTHS of 3.5 or higher and higher levels of anti-wear additives. I haven't checked their data sheets, but I suspect Torco oils to have a high HTHS so you probably wouldn't be getting much of an improvement in fuel economy over the Holy Trinity oils. Between the three oils that I mentioned, they pretty much cover most of the oil specs, approvals, and certtifications out there.
This is exactly the kind of info I was looking for, so if I want to see a true difference in fuel economy I would need to go with a resource conserving oil that would be less robust by nature, and thus sacrifice wear/sheer protection. My priorities for any product I put on/in my car go along these lines: 1)Reliability 2)Performance 3)Price (within reasonable bounds). What I'm learning from you wonderful guru's is that the price of these specialized 'boutique' oils is not within reasonable bounds. I will thus stick with the tried and true RT6 for now, and do some research on M1 0w40 and Castrol 0w30. Thank you all for your help/advice (yes, even you Uncle Scotty)
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:58 PM   #10
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Good info, thanks.

"[Torco SR-5R] provides excellent anti-wear and anti-friction of vital engine components including bearings, cams, cylinders, pistons, rings and valvetrain parts by minimizing frictional losses to deliver more horsepower and torque output"

That's partly what got me excited about the product in the first place. The questions I have are: how much more 'horsepower and torque output' would you really see? If it is significant is it worth the price? This stuff is also obviously oriented toward 'extreme conditions' 'severe temps/load' it also says 'race' or 'racing' 16 times in the article. As much as my car wants to be a racecar, it's going to have to wait until I win the powerball . There is a less expensive/robust version, SR-1, that my local shop recommended for me. I love the idea of these products, hence why I created this thread. Maintaining/improving my car is my favorite hobby. But the impression I'm getting from y'all is that these oils are not worth it unless you have a built motor or deep pockets. Seeing as I'm a college student with a stage 2 WRX DD I'll wait until down the road to experiment with more advanced products like these.
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:56 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRBlueJ View Post

Good info, thanks.

"[Torco SR-5R] provides excellent anti-wear and anti-friction of vital engine components including bearings, cams, cylinders, pistons, rings and valvetrain parts by minimizing frictional losses to deliver more horsepower and torque output"
Doesn't EVERY performance oriented oil advertise that?
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:56 PM   #13
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The data sheet doesn't list the HTHS but I would guess it's at least 3.5 on the 5W-30 with the viscosity at 100C being nearly 12.

And yes to Psychoreo!

-Dennis
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Old 01-07-2014, 06:40 PM   #14
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if somebody is worried about $200/year...and wants to spend $100 on an oil change that wont last past 6 or 7k miles???



are poeple really that dumb???

jesus....get the 0w40 M1 and forgetaboutallthisstupid****andgetonwithyourfoolis hlifealraedy
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:27 PM   #15
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^^^^^ this^^^^

If you have to ask how much it costs-you can't afford it.

I do think it would probably gain a few additional HP, as in 2-3. Its only +$20/qt.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:28 PM   #16
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the SR-1 is regular hydrocracked base stock.

the Sr-5 is group 4/5
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psychoreo View Post
Doesn't EVERY performance oriented oil advertise that?
"Torco SR-5R is a quite frankly an overpriced lube that we use fancy words and false promises to describe in order to make gullible car owners empty their pockets" -Torco marketing team

If I wasn't somewhat skeptical I wouldn't have consulted you kind folks on Torco's product. Point78 seems to be the only one here with actual experience with the oil and it seems it isn't all hype, just expensive oil that is only really useful for a handful of race-oriented cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
if somebody is worried about $200/year...and wants to spend $100 on an oil change that wont last past 6 or 7k miles???



are poeple really that dumb???

jesus....get the 0w40 M1 and forgetaboutallthisstupid****andgetonwithyourfoolis hlifealraedy
As you like to say: RTFT! I've already agreed with you twice before you posted that, and now three times! The reason I came here first before just buying it was to consult your Uncleness and all his wisdom! THANK YOU FOR YOUR WISDOM, I WILL FOLLOW IT!

As a sidenote; Torco SR-1 10w30 can be had for ~$14 per liter, which would be $70 per oil change, and ~$150-$210 per year depending on OCI. This is within my theoretical $250 budget considering it did yield ~1.5 mpg over RT6. However, as bluesubie so helpfully explained, this subject isn't as simple as I seemed to think it was (color me surprised). And the above is not really the case. Now, unlike many on this forum, when I hear advice from someone who obviously knows more than me (looking at you Unc.), I will listen!

Now that we have thoroughly established that this product is not for me... (fourth time!) one of my original questions was: is there any provable/tangible truth to such oil's marketing statements? Do there exist products (however expensive) that show a significant increase in horsepower/torque and reduction in friction that can be seen on a dyno without sacrificing protecton?
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Old 01-07-2014, 08:24 PM   #18
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^^^^^ this^^^^

If you have to ask how much it costs-you can't afford it.

I do think it would probably gain a few additional HP, as in 2-3. Its only +$20/qt.
Posted the above before seeing this; interesting. Any source on that?
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:01 PM   #19
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I went to Walmart on Sunday and threw an orange Fram oil filter with the Rhinoliner spray on grip on my cart. It was like $3.20. I then sashayed down to the Supertech synthetic oil and noticed they only had 10W-30 in stock and launched that into the cart...payed like $19 or so for it. Those are now rolling around in my hatch waiting for me to not be lazy this weekend to change them. My car has 190,000 miles on it and is pushing double stock horsepower. Ya'll spend way too much time debating stuff that matters in the six sigma range.
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:02 PM   #20
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Dear Lord... the cheapness... the negligence... it it burns! Repent! You are obviously rather inexperienced with subies

.../s pleaseforgivememodsaregods

I was curious, and so I asked for the advice of those more experienced than me. Is that not what this place is for? I wonder sometimes...

Should I simply toss whatever I feel like in the car with disregard for quality/reliability? (no, I'm not saying you do that) Or should I err on the side of buying quality products and getting advice before putting something on/in my car. I choose the latter, seeing as I don't have an infinite knowledge of all things Subaru, and this is my one car, my DD, and my favorite hobby. That being said I'm glad I didn't waste my hard earned $$$$ on overpriced oil thanks to you KIND AND GENTLE FOLK I love this place too much to be irritated
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:25 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by point78 View Post
the SR-1 is regular hydrocracked base stock. the Sr-5 is group 4/5
And the SR-5 has a very low TBN so I wouldn't run it past 3,750 miles without a virgin oil analysis to find out the detergent levels. And then a uoa with a TBN if you want to exceed that mileage. The SR-1 has a better TBN, but an HTHS like a Resource Conserving oil, and the additive pack is probably similar to any OTS 5W-30 oil.

Red Line 5W-30 would be a better choice IMO. Although it has a high HTHS so you may not gain much in the way of fuel economy.

-Dennis
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Old 01-08-2014, 01:52 PM   #22
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Old 01-08-2014, 02:14 PM   #23
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Isn't that small difference in hp typical of differences in dyno runs anyway (even without any changes)? What oil was in the Civic before they drained it?

Not saying the results are impossible. It can be done with a heavily friction modified oil.

-Dennis
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Old 01-08-2014, 05:01 PM   #24
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probably started with a heavy gear oil.

(you would hope DSport didn't have any ties to Torco, or kickbacks for a good report, but who knows?)
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Old 01-09-2014, 12:07 AM   #25
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anybody looking for under 10hp changes is looking for f00ls gold or is working on and with TRUE race cars

not street cars

this whole thread is an example of somebody looking for f000ls gold....a f0000ls errand....a snipe hunt.....yeah
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