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Old 01-17-2008, 03:00 AM   #1
slprwgn
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Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Corvallis, OR
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

Default 02 WRX hybrid soon to have JDM FXT EJ257

So this WRX formerly known as Dave Dyson's, is involved in a new venture! I recently discovered that cylinders 2 & 4 have around 80% leakage...not good. For those of you that know this car's history, the increase in compression from the particular heads were causing a restriction on the power (if i understand correctly).

After contacting Dave and discussing possible options we decided to get ahold of Max at Gruppe-S. Max came up with a JDM FXT EJ257, which is the forester motor for those who don't know. Dave has dealt with Gruppe-S in the past with great results. They have great prices and are happy to help. These motors are a more simple install than the STI motor and as far as i can tell produce very similar results.

RalliTEK, which is located just north of me in Portland is going to be taking on the swap. This is my first experience with them and they have been great so far. This is the most impressive shop I've been in so far when it comes to customer service, presentation, etc. (I'm a marketing/entrepreneurship major, i notice these things...sometimes too much). They also have a decent product line of their own for many different Subaru apps.

It seems to me as though not too many know about this swap. For those of you looking to swap in the near future, check in on it. This should prove to be very interesting as Gruppe-S sells these motors at $2999, which you all know is considerably less than what we can get STI motors for.

I'll put some pics up as soon as i figure out how

Anyone with questions, comments, input...post
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:21 PM   #2
swi99
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why/how is this swap easier than a sti swap? wiring?
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:43 PM   #3
kheff46
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AVCS/DBW/etc. all make a difference. it would be easier w/o the extra wires(not if you are just paying someone else to do it) and almost as effective. better imho since you have cash left for some mods!

--keith
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Old 01-17-2008, 10:35 PM   #4
domestic_abuser
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You might want to run the vin on the motor. I bought mine from Gruppe-shi t and was supposed to get the entire top half of the engine as well. (Injectors, manifold, tgv's and so on.) I recieved none of them..This engine was also supposed to be a JDM Legacy Spec B motor...but it was not. Next I was told that it was a JDM Forester engine...and then just an EJ257....Make sure you're getting what you're told.
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:02 AM   #5
slprwgn
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Gruppe-S also has an adapter for the cam positioning sensor which i think otherwise you would have to create yourself...not really sure how big of a deal this is but definitely nice to know you don't have to worry about it
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Old 01-18-2008, 06:27 AM   #6
domestic_abuser
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I recieved the adapter with my engine and it wouldn't mount right. The boss should be on the new engine anyways. Just tap it and place the sensor.
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Old 01-22-2008, 01:57 PM   #7
two88
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JDM FXT EJ257 MOTOR

The JDM XT 2.5 EJ257 Engine makes an excellent swap for any WRX owner looking for STI performance from their WRX.
The JDM XT 2.5 EJ257 is essentially an identical engine to its brother the USDM STI 2.5 engine but at a much lower price. The engines feature a completely forged rotating assembly with hyper-cast pistons that is capable of safely withstanding an incredible 500HP.
Compared to the USDM WRX engine, the larger bore (100mm versus 92mm) and increased stroke (79mm versus 75mm) significantly increases the midrange power output and maintains a broad power band even with much larger turbochargers such as the Garrett GT30R. In essence an EJ257 all but eliminates the excessive big-turbo lag associated with the EJ20 WRX. Furthermore the increased displacement helps to increase power output even when using less than optimal fuel, such as California’s 91 octane.
The EJ257’s improvements (over the WRX) continue with the heads and valve-train. With a much improved casting, the EJ257 boasts a larger intake port size, larger compression area, larger valves, and of course more aggressive camshafts.
Given proper tuning and setup, the JDM FXT EJ257 is perfect for larger than stock turbochargers. On average with turbochargers such as a GT30R, we have seen gains of over 50whp and substantial improvements in the midrange power (reduction in turbo lag) in comparison (see graph).
Swapping an EJ257 JDM FXT into a USDM WRX is a straight-forward process. The intake manifold is simply switched over (along with injectors, rails etc.) and the engine is dropped in. The custom cam-position sensor (we supply this) is bolted into place with the factory cam-position sensor, and the FXT cam-position and AVCS sensors are left unconnected. ECU recalibration is required for this particular engine.
We offer in-house installation, setup, and professional dyno-tuning, including ECU reprogramming (Ecutek) and stand-alone engine management installation. Please contact us for any questions regarding our services.
ABOUT OUR ENGINES:
All our engines are inspected, leaked down, and compression tested. These particular FXT motors are all less than 1000km and are practically brand new. You MUST follow standard break-in procedures on these engines (500km). We offer start-up warranty on all our engines.


Too Gruppe-s site.
Click on first engine
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Old 01-23-2008, 07:38 PM   #8
two88
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The car shouldn't need too many mods. Except for a smaller turbo maybe.

Engine
2.5 stage 2 Axis short block
Forged CP pistons
P and P heads.
Shimless valve buckets
Stainless Steel .050 over exhaust valves
Butterfly delete
FPGreen, oil, and water cooled
PE 800's
Aquamist water / Alcohol injection
Perrin fuel rails,
TurboXS-FM.
GFB Stealth BOV - Run on full by pass. Quiet.
walbro Fuelpump,
B & B (div. w g) Down Pipe- wrapped
Perrin uppipe,
Perrin big MAF intake
Samco hoses
STI Pink kevlar timing belt.
Perrin Turbo inlet hose
P&P exhaust manifold
PWR radiator - over pressure cap
Circle earth grounding kit
Tanaube Hyper Medallian Exhaust
large scoop - radiator shroud.
Helix oil catch can

Electronics
AVC-R electronic boost control and readout
UTEC on top of EcuTek, 4 out of 8 map selections - pdxtuning
A pillar - Defi EGT and boost gauges
Under lighter Defi oil press. and oil temp
Apexi Turbo Timer w /A/F readout
Knock-Link sensor / Lights in gauge cluster
Optima in trumk

Suspension / Brakes / Wheels / Tires :
Tein coilovers
Cusco 20 to 24 mm adjustable rear swaybar
Helix rear end links
Whiteline adjustable 20 to 24mm front sway bar
klc-38 front endlinks
W.L. Steering Rack Bushings
Whiteline rear Strut Tower Bar with Quick Disconnect
White Line Sport ALK unit
Turn in Concepts Fender Cowl braces.
sti engine / tranny mounts
sti pitch stop
Goodridge Stainless steel brake Lines - Front+Rear
Porterfield brake pads
Racing Brake Slotted Rotors - Front
18X8.5" SSR 14.6 lb Competitions
225/40/18 Goodyear F-1 GS D-3's..... VerySticky
Rear camber kit

Trans.
Australian Roos B3 devlopmental six speed with very limited slip
ACT StreetLite Flywheel - 13.9 lbs
Clutch net clutch
Cusco Shifter Bushings
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Old 01-31-2008, 05:19 PM   #9
two88
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John
So how is it going?? Gruppe-s should have given RalliTEK the same deal I got for you. It should take a couple of weeks for the engine if they didn't have any on the floor which I thought they did.
I'm not sure about the valve timing but even without it you should put down 350whp+ pump and holyisht on the alcohol injection. Torque will be up around 350lb so you will not have to wind the enginge coming out of corners.

Dave

PS: With 8 UTEC maps and launch control hooked up. Be sure to get one map for Water/Alcohol injection - And 2.5 gallons of toluene per tank [96 Octane and low egt's].
You should be doing low 11's and be a beast on country roads.

Last edited by two88; 01-31-2008 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:37 PM   #10
slprwgn
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PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

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Well RalliTEK got the motor, clutch, and flywheel ordered. Progress coming soon!
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:04 AM   #11
two88
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So you got the Gruppe-s deal? What is the eta? I think the fxt 257 will be a killer engine for all the modifications. I predict a safe 390+whp and 365# torque on Alcohol injection and someToluene.

Other wise 360whp and 360# torque on pump with W/A. Of course you can drive around on straight pump and still put down 340+ whp. Doc Baley still owes me a couple of tunes. I think he would extend the build / tune plan to you as he always said the heads were holding the whp back and wanted me to fix them.

Of course you will be running sti heads now and I'd think he'd love to see the car perform to its potential.

Keep us posted

This should be in the hybrid thread where they know the car. jmho

Good luck with
RalliTEK

Glad you stayed away from pdx. No-one seems to have a good thing to say about them lately.

They have been taken over by Adam from Alta and that is bad news for every customer of pdx.
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:51 PM   #12
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I've heard more and more bad things about gruppe-s screwing people over hardcore, whats the deal with that? They're not turning into the next vivid are they?
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:28 PM   #13
two88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ndGearFling View Post
I've heard more and more bad things about gruppe-s screwing people over hardcore, whats the deal with that? They're not turning into the next vivid are they?
When I went to stage 2-4 I ordered almost all of my parts thru Max [wholesale] at Gruppe-s. i also put together packages for several other projects thru Eurosport. I worked there for a while.

Once I put together about 8k in mods so we could put everything on at once. I couldn't find the sti pinks. Called Max and without him asking me to re-look or anything he overnighted me another set. No questions asked. Then he called back to say the originals were at UPS and would I please decline them. Pretty good service imho. Vivid are not bad people but the people who take your order hand the info off to a different division who are just account types. They have a terrible system. Plus Gruppe-s has the same parts [with advice] for less.
They have joined with another Co.. So stick with Max, he follows the parts thruout. Remembers your name etc..


PS: Sometimes they over promise on the eta because their vendor leaves them hanging. John would have to tell you how the 2.5 fxt engine order is going. I got the discount price then butted out once he went with RalliTEK who I have no affiliation with.

Last edited by two88; 02-06-2008 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:45 PM   #14
two88
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Remember you have the tgv deletes.

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Old 02-11-2008, 03:01 AM   #15
slprwgn
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PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

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Gruppe-S has been great to me so far. I ordered the engine and it was in transit within a couple days. There prices on other things are very cheap as well. Clutch/flywheel pricing was pretty far below any other place i found. I expect the engine to show up any day. If there are any issues I'll be sure to let you guys know.

I went with the ACT HD clutch which claims to be a 42% increase over the stock. You all think that's sufficient to hold this thing down. I don't plan on dragging it all the time, mostly just a daily driver. There is no way i was gonna afford a exedy twin plate. I'm already going to be spending close to 5 large.
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Old 02-13-2008, 02:19 AM   #16
two88
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5 Large plus tuning I imagine. That will be most important. I'll try to get hold of doc Bailey right now. You may not want to drive the car until you get at least a road tune. Even RalliTEK should get their hands on my specs or the build thread. I'll post it later if you don't have it.

It does make me laugh you are going thru the same tumultous decisions I was always dealing with. Your should be simplified with a computer built warranted motor instead of a shop built hybrid that had build information passed on third hand at times.
You should never need another mod except for
1 getting rid of the AVC-R to limit driver variables. ie fkn* with the tune and over boosting
2 Getting a smaller turbo
3 Getting brake upgrades so you can compete with the big boys at the pdx track.

I'm happy driving around my 94 egskort that barely keeps up with traffic and has one rear right speaker so I can listen to pbs or espn.

I've been passed by a Porsche, and some bikes on country drives that were showing off and wished I still had the car to run them down. But adjusted to my 85 hp plugger. har.

I'll get hold of Tim pronto and get back to you. You will have an almost F-1 style car when dialed in. I can't think of any mods suspension or engine wise I'd add. Except for brakes for pdx racing if you really want to put a hurt on the car. You would do well but pushing the car that hard shortens the life of a great car that should last you another 150,000 miles easy.

The nice thing about your set up is you can count on bullish low end torque in corners and not have to ever wind the engine to get full power. That sounds silly to most people but one has to experience the low end torque of the car
RalliTEK should write the car up. Gruppe-s might sponsor it.

Wishing you the best.

Last edited by two88; 02-13-2008 at 02:27 AM.
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Old 02-13-2008, 03:26 AM   #17
two88
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Default Calling the Dr. 2.5 long block needs tuned


Sent:
John / Tim / Rallitek


Doc Bailey
Surgeline
Ph 661 313 1207

tbailey@surgelinetuning.com


I sold the 2.5 to a nice kid who got the same micro cracks in in SB. I'm sure it was the defective heads again.

He is getting the used fxt 2.5 longblock w sti heads from Gruppe-s.

http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/UsedEngines.htm
Click on top engine for specs. for $2,500 and is being installed at Rallitek.

I think you are the only person to tune the car and give John advice from here on out. I'd sure like to to have John be happy with the car and to see it make the power and reliability you think should have. I know you are busy but there is plenty of time as the motor is in route to RalliTEK.

John Anderson
Roseburg
643 1144
crazycarguy5@msn.com

All the best
Dave
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:23 PM   #18
Cobb Tuning
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I'm happy to tune it when its finished. A new longblock should tune well as the heads will be stock and meant to be in place of the 2.5 bottom end.

If he want's me to tune it he can email me directly"
tbailey@surgelinetuning.com

best regards
Tim
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:29 PM   #19
two88
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Thanks Tim
I predict a sweet and easy 335whp, 355#torque for a long lasting engine. Then there are the other UTEC maps. I'd keep everything conservative. Plus: John, You will need a break in tune to roll the car out. Put 800 non boost miles on the engine before a real dyno run. jmho of course.
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:02 PM   #20
two88
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John
Did you get a tracking # on the engine? How far out is it?
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:08 PM   #21
two88
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Quoted from a built engine thread. 2.0 heads on a 2.5 Short Block.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo_Mike View Post
Agreed, dont mess with head gaskets, thats the least of your issues. Stock STi ones are totally fine for way more power and boost than the heads can handle. The main issue with the 2.5 hybrid is that the combustion chamber on the head side doesnt match the cylinder side because the 2.0 bore is smaller, which makes it more detonation prone than sti heads, and the 2.0 heads really dont flow enough to make high rpm power, especially with stock cams. Its still a HUGE upgrade from a stock 2.0....

My setup made 417hp/471tq at the wheels with a FP green and meth on my hybrid 2.5....
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:41 PM   #22
slprwgn
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PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

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The Motor Has Arrived! David from RalliTEK started pulling the motor and he is expecting to have it done Friday morning.

As far as the motor goes, it looks brand new! There wasn't even a trace of carbon on the exhaust manifold. I'm very satisfied with Gruppe-S. I would be surprised if the motor really had the claimed 1000km on it.

If anyone else is thinking of doing this, don't forget to swap the cam gears! David said this is the most common mistake made with these swaps, which pretty much ruins it instantly...

I honestly can't say enough about RalliTEK. They are a great bunch of guys that are willing to go the extra mile to make sure you are happy.

I plan on driving it for maybe another 1k miles and then it's time to hit the dyno. I have a few pics of the motor i'll post soon and we'll see how it runs on friday
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Old 02-20-2008, 10:45 PM   #23
slprwgn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swi99 View Post
why/how is this swap easier than a sti swap? wiring?
My bad, they really aren't. The only thing that makes it easier is the fact that Gruppe-S provides an adapter that is necessary in the swap. You can order these from them relatively cheap (i think 50 bucks at the most)
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Old 02-21-2008, 03:17 PM   #24
slprwgn
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PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

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We ran into an issue today. The adapter which Gruppe-S claims to include in the purchase of the engine was not supplied. IF YOU BUY AN ENGINE FROM THEM MAKE SURE THEY ARE SENDING YOU WHAT IT STATES ONLINE! They have since corrected this issue and are overnighting it. However it is a week-long setback for me as i will probably not be able to pick up the car until the folllowing friday
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:26 PM   #25
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Sounds like the car is on its way to a finished product after years of bad luck and poor mechanical execution.

Looking forward to helping you with the finishing touch on the dyno.

Best regards

Tim
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