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Old 02-22-2008, 12:58 PM   #26
two88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprwgn View Post
We ran into an issue today. The adapter which Gruppe-S claims to include in the purchase of the engine was not supplied. IF YOU BUY AN ENGINE FROM THEM MAKE SURE THEY ARE SENDING YOU WHAT IT STATES ONLINE! They have since corrected this issue and are overnighting it. However it is a week-long setback for me as i will probably not be able to pick up the car until the folllowing friday
Thats to bad but you did get a pretty good overall deal from Gruppe-s I think. The car has been waiting for- - - errrr - 5 years to get sorted out.

Kids.......

I'm glad to hear things are going well other than the adapter. In fact wooo hooo.
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Old 02-26-2008, 12:16 AM   #27
HAT3R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprwgn View Post
The Motor Has Arrived! David from RalliTEK started pulling the motor and he is expecting to have it done Friday morning.

As far as the motor goes, it looks brand new! There wasn't even a trace of carbon on the exhaust manifold. I'm very satisfied with Gruppe-S. I would be surprised if the motor really had the claimed 1000km on it.

If anyone else is thinking of doing this, don't forget to swap the cam gears! David said this is the most common mistake made with these swaps, which pretty much ruins it instantly...

I honestly can't say enough about RalliTEK. They are a great bunch of guys that are willing to go the extra mile to make sure you are happy.

I plan on driving it for maybe another 1k miles and then it's time to hit the dyno. I have a few pics of the motor i'll post soon and we'll see how it runs on friday

i was wondering about the cam gears, did you use your WRX heads? is that why you had to change out the cam gears?
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Old 02-29-2008, 01:43 PM   #28
two88
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John
How is everything going? Engine in? Tuned? Did the new clutch match up?

Dave
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:22 AM   #29
slprwgn
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Location: Corvallis, OR
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2002 WRX Wagon
PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HAT3R View Post
i was wondering about the cam gears, did you use your WRX heads? is that why you had to change out the cam gears?
I used the STI heads. The reason has something to do with not using the avcs i believe, someone else would have to clarify on that one.
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Old 03-03-2008, 02:23 AM   #30
slprwgn
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The adapter finally showed up friday morning so I'm going to pick the car up on tuesday...this time for real i hope.
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Old 03-08-2008, 07:57 PM   #31
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Hope things are going ok John. I ran into the GI Joe car cover today. You can pick it up whenever. I thought it was in the car when I sold it.

dd
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Old 03-08-2008, 08:24 PM   #32
ghostdriver
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they actually sent you an ej257? im not questioning you or bashing them but its wierd cause they told me that they dont even have those engines in stock anymore when i was trying to get a replacement for my 04 sti motor. i got a 2008 fxt ej255 longblock and am currently trying to make that work for me...
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:38 PM   #33
two88
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I heard you say Gruppe-s sent you a defective motor. Post some pics - and let us know how Gruppe-s follows up. I'm pretty sure they said "the motors were inspected and waranteed". Max should chime in and let us know what’s going on.



Too bad about being down for so long, - even if they make things right monetarily.
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Old 03-14-2008, 08:45 PM   #34
wrxfactor
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6spd, EJ255, VF39 & EWG

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wrxfactor is not surprised at the above post.
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:31 AM   #35
slprwgn
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PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

Default Gruppe-S engine rusted!

Dave is right. So I ordered the JDM FXT EJ257. When the engine was received, RalliTek was slightly confused because the intake manifold, which was barely bolted on, was off of either an 08 wrx or a legacy GT. They weren't too worried about it because we would have to use my intake manifold anyway. So they proceeded to pull my old motor and swap all of the components onto the new motor. After all the swapping was done, they drained the oil that was in the motor when it arrived only to find WATER IN THE OIL! They let me know that it was a bit of a concern but because they had already gone so far they might as well try the motor out. They started putting the motor in, and realized that location of the oil filler was different. Again, they were so far that they just swapped the valve cover for a STI one and continued. Finally, the engine is in and all the fluids have been completely filled. They start the motor....30 seconds goes by...the ENGINE SEIZES!!!

Now GRUPPE-S claims that all their motors are completely inspected, leak down tested, and compression tested. If this is the case, how did water get into the oil? It had to have been there for a long time. You can see the pics below show how corroded the engine components were. So we have come to realize that the engine we got really was a US spec Legacy GT motor which is far inferior to the STI or JDM FXT motor!

Gruppe-S claims it was a mistake, and this very well could be the case, but this is a very costly mistake for all involved in this situation! RalliTEK has now had to spend twice as much time as expected on my car, which has a cost somewhere around $900 for them. My car will now be out of commission for at least 3 months which is not only a huge pain but also costs me at least $600 in insurance paid for a car that is not going anywhere.

So at the moment, Sean, owner of RalliTEK is waiting for a reply as to how Gruppe-S is going to resolve this situation. They don't have any of the engines left, so I am assuming they will build one for me. This, however, needs to be done in a timely fashion as it is costing us more and more money every day longer that car sits in the shop.

I am hearing more and more people who have run into a situation identical or very similar to this more recently and I really hope Gruppe-S realizes what kind of impact this will have on their business. I, personally, will make a very noticeable impact (and this is no exaggeration) on their sales if this situation is not resolved in a timely manner. Mistakes like these should not happen in a business such as this, and when they do they need to fix it, and quickly. I don't expect anyone or any company to be perfect, however everyone needs to be responsible for their mistakes. If Gruppe-S takes care of this, I am a happy camper and have nothing to say. If this situation doesn't go as i feel it should....well you get the point.

I will update as soon as Gruppe-S gets back to us
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Old 03-17-2008, 02:37 AM   #36
slprwgn
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Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

Default Rusty Engine








That doesn't happen overnight, thats for sure!
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:42 PM   #37
ownnij
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i ordered some headlights from gruppe-s and it took 2 months for me to get them. i never ordered anything from them again
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Old 03-18-2008, 10:43 AM   #38
two88
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I'm not to sure what happened here. Gruppe-s is slow at times but they do order alot of parts from other vendors at great prices. They've always treated me well and I've ordered about 15 gr thru them. Thats why I'm boggled aboutJohns motor.
One thing you can say about Max is he will try to make it good, plus he will never cop an attitude and trash the customer like some other vendors.
Not that John hasn't gotten a bad deal on a major purchase. It's not like dealing with Alta or their spinoffs.
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:40 AM   #39
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Come on guys. Lets hear about a resolution to this firg'n boggle. I guarantee this thread will not go away until then. It seems like we are burning lots of daylight being standoffish and semi polite.
John needs a motor / and or Max got screwed on his end. Is it a problem because Gruppe-s has an new owner and Max can't say what he believes?

I am invested in recommending Gruppe-S to John [because I sold the car to John and recommended the Gruppe-s Long Block] and also believe Max would make things right if things were cut and dried.

I can't believe both parties being polite and civil do not want to discuss the problem in the open. I have always stood up for Gruppe-s and rightly so. If Gruppe-s thinks there is a problem out of their control lets hear it, I don't think it will crush anyone’s feelings.

Did RalliTEK not take care of the motor while it was in their care. Was it left outside or mishandled? Was it not taken care of in transit? Lets get what is not being said out in the open and trust it wont turn into a pizzing match.

Last edited by two88; 03-19-2008 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:10 PM   #40
slprwgn
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PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

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Quote:
Originally Posted by two88 View Post

Did RalliTEK not take care of the motor while it was in their care. Was it left outside or mishandled? Was it not taken care of in transit? Lets get what is not being said out in the open and trust it wont turn into a pizzing match.
The motor was placed in the warehouse upon arrival ( I saw it the day it arrived). If it has issues with the transit, it is still the responsibility of Gruppe-S. They offer a start up warranty.

All of this is pretty irrelevant considering they gave me a LGT motor. The LGT motor has a thinner block, different compression, among other things (less aggressive cam? worse head flow?) that make it far inferior to what I was supposed to get.

Bottom line is I need my car fixed, and Gruppe-S needs to take care of their responsibility...preferably before the law needs to get involved. The facts are pretty clear and concise. There is plenty of evidence to back every claim I have made.

Gruppe-S...Solution?
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Old 03-20-2008, 09:58 PM   #41
Gruppe-S
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Hi John, Dave, and Everyone Else,

I apologize for not stepping in here sooner. I didn't realize the best way to discuss this problem was to have a public discussion here on the forums so I didn't post anything in this thread so far. But if this is how everyone else feels is the best way to handle the diffucult situation we're in, so be it...

Here's the email I sent you last week:

"I just tried calling both of you but I guess everyone's busy today

I did receive the pics yesterday and definitely see the problem. I have a tech here checking out our engine inventory to find a suitable replacement for the engine. We're mostly likely going to have to put something together as we don't have a complete longblock here that was can just send out and we won't have a new shipment of engines in for about a month (unless you guys want to try one of the newer quad AVCS EJ25 engines).

That said, it may take some time to get an engine put together to replace the current engine. So if a replacement is needed right away, we have no problem taking the current engine back for a full refund. Of course we'll cover the return shipping charges.

Regardless of what route you guys decide to take on getting the car back up and running, I'd like to personally apologize for the troubles with the engine. We'd like to think we run a upstanding business here and please believe me when I say that we had no intention of causing any trouble for anybody. That said, some of these issues with this engine (LGT vs FXT, water in the oil) were apparently discovered shortly after the engine was received. I don't think I'm wrong to say that if we had been notified earlier of these issues we could have avoided a lot of headache and wasted time for everyone. In the end it's a problem with an engine we inspected and sold so we are ultimately responsible and we'll do our best to accommodate your needs."

------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure if the e-mail wasn't clear or maybe I confused you when I talked to you later that day on the phone, but I've offered you several options to resolve the issue. I suggested you discuss things with the installer and let me know which route you wanted to take. I don't know why you think we have a stack of replacement engines sitting here that we're refusing to send to you. We only get 3-5 of these particular engines in every 2 months and they sell out very quickly due to high demand. We have nothing to gain from leaving you high and dry with a bad motor... we don't get 5+ inquiries everyday for used engines by making a habit of selling people blown engines on purpose.

I understand having your daily driven car down for 2 months waiting another month weeks for a new shipment of engines is unreasonable. As I siad last week, I'm here to help you get the car back up on the road even if it means taking the engine back for a full refund so you can source a replacement more quickly elsewhere. Even though I personally find it odd that anyone, especially a professional shop, would go ahead and install an engine after discovering water inside, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a problem before the engine was sent out to you.

I have a personal interest in helping you out and getting that car back up and running as it used to belong a very good customer and friend. Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to do anything until you let me know how you want to proceed. If you prefer to try resolving the problem here on the forums I have no problem (or choice) obliging you. Based on my experience, however, I'd recommend just taking this back to private e-mails and phone calls. It's a nice show for rubber neckers but very little progress gets made going back and forth like this.


Thanks

Max
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:12 PM   #42
keirnna
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Since when is there a EJ257 in the JDM Forester STI? It is a EJ255 that comes in the FSTI. That is a 2.5 liter open deck block. The same block that comes in the US Forester XT.
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Old 03-21-2008, 04:44 PM   #43
slprwgn
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PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

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That's a question Gruppe-S would have to answer
check out the link...

http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/UsedEngines.htm
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:38 PM   #44
two88
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80% of the $17,000 in mods in this car are from Max at Gruppe-s. I've also put large performance packages together for about 6 other wrx's and sti's thru the shop I used to work at. I always sent out requests for quotes to other vendors as a matter of course. I used another Vendor on one package and it turned out to be a complete unhappy mess. Gruppe-S always had the best prices - even if they ordered thru another Vendor, and the best service.

Gruppe-s has screwed up a couple of times and I've ordered the wrong part a couple of times. Max always fixed things quickly and w/o any extra verbage.

I ordered the motor for John as I thought he was going to use our shop for the install. John did get a nice discount from Max even tho I was out of the loop. I cant see the #'s on the motor but RalliTek or Max could let us know if his motor is the one as advertised. This seems to be causing confusion, on my part anyway.

Being how this is kind of a backwater thread [not the Vendor review forum] it seems Gruppe-S has come up a little short on this one. I fully expect Max to come thru for you John. And there is nothing wrong with keeping us informed. Of course if there are things being said neither one of you want to share then say so.

Botom line is - do you want a refund, and go another route? As I read the link to the fxt it is a great deal. Minus the rust and confusion.

#1, Is this the delivered motor or not?

Quote:
...JDM FXT EJ257 MOTOR
Quote:
The JDM XT 2.5 EJ257 Engine makes an excellent swap for any WRX
owner looking for STI performance from their WRX.
The JDM XT 2.5 EJ257 is essentially an identical engine to its brother
the USDM STI 2.5 engine but at a much lower price.
The engines feature a completely forged rotating assembly
with hyper-cast pistons that is capable of safely withstanding an
incredible 500HP.
Compared to the USDM WRX engine, the larger bore (100mm versus 92mm)
and increased stroke (79mm versus 75mm) significantly increases the
midrange power output and maintains a broad power band even with
much larger turbochargers such as the Garrett GT30R.
In essence an EJ257 all but eliminates the excessive big-turbo lag
associated with the EJ20 WRX. Furthermore the increased displacement
helps to increase power output even when using less than optimal fuel,
such as California’s 91 octane.
The EJ257’s improvements (over the WRX) continue with the heads and
valve-train. With a much improved casting, the EJ257 boasts a larger
intake port size, larger compression area, larger valves, and of course more
aggressive camshafts.
Given proper tuning and setup, the JDM FXT EJ257 is perfect for larger
than stock turbochargers. On average with turbochargers such as a
GT30R,
we have seen gains of over 50whp and substantial improvements
in the midrange power (reduction in turbo lag) in comparison (see graph).
Swapping an EJ257 JDM FXT into a USDM WRX is a straight-forward
process. The intake manifold is simply switched over (along with
injectors, rails etc.) and the engine is dropped in.
The custom cam-position sensor (we supply this) is bolted into place
with the factory cam-position sensor, and the FXT cam-position and
AVCS sensors are left unconnected. ECU recalibration is required for
this particular engine.
We offer in-house installation, setup, and professional dyno-tuning, including
ECU reprogramming (Ecutek) and stand-alone engine management installation.
Please contact us for any questions regarding our services.
ABOUT OUR ENGINES:
All our engines are inspected, leaked down, and compression tested. These particular
FXT motors are all less than 1000km and are practically brand new.
You MUST follow standard break-in procedures on these engines (500km).
We offer start-up warranty on all our engines.
........
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Old 03-22-2008, 11:20 PM   #45
keirnna
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slprwgn View Post
That's a question Gruppe-S would have to answer
check out the link...

http://www.gruppe-s.com/Subaru/UsedEngines.htm
Yeah there is NO EJ257 in the Japanese parts system. I KNOW because I went there. The Forester STI has a EJ255 until someone shows me that I am wrong. I have checked this a few times here.
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Old 03-23-2008, 01:25 PM   #46
slprwgn
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Corvallis, OR
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by slprwgn View Post
I, personally, will make a very noticeable impact (and this is no exaggeration) on their sales if this situation is not resolved in a timely manner.
I would like to apologize for this. I was definitely angry (not that i'm not still) and unless i'm treated absolutely terribly, I would not do something like this.
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:12 PM   #47
two88
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Chuckles at John
<---- two88 tries not to post after a couple beers also tries not to obsess when things are going wrong with a seller [unless its someone like Vivid and I know all is lost anyway-even if they are trying]. I didn't even see the original post. I sure wouldn't have quoted it. har
I don't know why this isn't going smoothly but it's not because of Max. I'm guessing he is frustrated also. Making whomsoever ticked off may make it harder to get everything squared away.

I was just telling Pete the Eurosport owner that you got the same micro crack we had in the first SB, then you broke down and ordered a long block so you'd bypass whatever problem was in the engine in the first place and then the long block turned out to have problems. I mean yikes its not fair. I'd think the slprwgn has lower mileage than any other 02 rex in the nation. It's probably been down for about 2-1/2 years due to the sb and lng blk boggles.

Anyway the Lord arose this day long ago and there is a nice long block coming to you. suomething faith the engine will arive with angels and surrrounded by light from above.
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Old 03-24-2008, 12:24 PM   #48
two88
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Original mods
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmanx View Post
Engine
2.5 stage 2 Axis short block
Forged CP pistons
P and P heads.
Shimless valve buckets
Stainless Steel .050 over exhaust valves
Butterfly delete
FPGreen, oil, and water cooled
PE 800's
Aquamist water / Alcohol injection
Perrin fuel rails,
TurboXS-FM.
GFB Stealth BOV - Run on full by pass. Quiet.
walbro Fuelpump,
B & B (div. w g) Down Pipe- wrapped
Perrin uppipe,
Perrin big MAF intake
Samco hoses
STI Pink kevlar timing belt.
Perrin Turbo inlet hose
P&P exhaust manifold
PWR radiator - over pressure cap
Circle earth grounding kit
Tanaube Hyper Medallian Exhaust
large scoop - radiator shroud.
Helix oil catch can

Electronics
AVC-R electronic boost control and readout
UTEC on top of EcuTek, 4 out of 8 map selections - pdxtuning
Passport 850 X 50
A pillar - Defi EGT and boost gauges
Defi oil press. and oil temp under lighter
Apexi Turbo Timer w /A/F readout
Knock-Link sensor / Lights in gauge cluster
Optima in trumk
Pioneer CD
Infinity speakers all around

Suspension / Brakes / Wheels / Tires :
Tein coilovers
Cusco 20 to 24 mm adjustable rear swaybar
Helix rear end links
Whiteline adjustable 20 to 24mm front sway bar
klc-38 front endlinks
W.L. Steering Rack Bushings
Whiteline rear Strut Tower Bar with Quick Disconnect
White Line Sport ALK unit
Turn in Concepts Fender Cowl braces.
sti engine / tranny mounts
sti pitch stop
Goodridge Stainless steel brake Lines - Front+Rear
Porterfield brake pads
Racing Brake Slotted Rotors - Front
18X8.5" SSR 14.6 lb Competitions
225/40/18 Goodyear F-1 GS D-3's..... VerySticky
Rear camber kit
Trans.
Australian Roos B3 devlopmental six speed with very limited slip
ACT StreetLite Flywheel - 13.9 lbs
Clutch net clutch
Cusco Shifter Bushings
Just a reminder it's a pretty nice car even if is sitting still at the moment.
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Old 03-24-2008, 08:33 PM   #49
two88
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Soo
I was expecting to hear a firm written solution and timeline by today. What was RalliTEK's solution anyway?
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:38 AM   #50
slprwgn
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Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon
PSM EJ257/6speed FP green

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There has been a proposed solution sent to me. I am just trying to decide what I want to do.
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