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Old 08-29-2009, 01:47 PM   #1
kpalena
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Default Red stuff problems...still

ok gang I give up. Here is the story.

Changed my brake pads this spring from stock to EBC redstuff. Broke them in according to EBC's directions on their site. About 50 miles later I got brake shimmy. I posted here and everyone told my to re-bed them, so I did. The problem was better for a bit then came right back. I talked to a local brake tech and he gave me the warped rotor talk. I bought new rotors. Problem solved, I bedded them in and all was grand for a while, then it started shimmying again. Bedded them AGAIN...problem went away and came back. I called the brake guy again and he said "ceramics will do that". At this point I am just going to replace the rotors and the pads with something less agressive. Am I missing something? I am really disapointed with EBC at this point.

FYI. I checked the wheel torque when I rotated the tires.
It only does it when brakeing from highway speeds.

P.S. Redstuff dust like a mother....
P.P.S. I have been around here long enough to not need the "Brakes don't warp" comment.
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Last edited by kpalena; 08-29-2009 at 02:15 PM.
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Old 08-29-2009, 02:24 PM   #2
Uncle Scotty
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your driving style is doing it
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Old 08-29-2009, 04:11 PM   #3
kpalena
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Thanks Scotty. Maybe a little agressive on the brake? That would fit into just about everything else in my life. Would you recomend a less agressive pad? I did not have this problem with my stockers....

Yes...I know changing how I drive is the obvious answer....but lets be honest, that is probably not going to happen.
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Old 08-29-2009, 04:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpalena View Post
Thanks Scotty. Maybe a little agressive on the brake? That would fit into just about everything else in my life. Would you recomend a less agressive pad? I did not have this problem with my stockers....

Yes...I know changing how I drive is the obvious answer....but lets be honest, that is probably not going to happen.
USUALLY...resting your foot on the brake pedal after heavy braking, before the brakes cool off and/or stopping/parking the car after hard/heavy braking before the brakes cool is what will cause this issue.

some pads are more prone to this happening

there are LOTS of pads out there that you could switch to
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Old 08-29-2009, 05:47 PM   #5
kpalena
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Originally Posted by Uncle Scotty View Post
USUALLY...resting your foot on the brake pedal after heavy braking, before the brakes cool off and/or stopping/parking the car after hard/heavy braking before the brakes cool is what will cause this issue.

some pads are more prone to this happening

there are LOTS of pads out there that you could switch to
I try really hard not to abuse my brakes...but apparantly...well...you know. Anyway, thanks for the help. Now the search begins.
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Old 08-29-2009, 06:32 PM   #6
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I've had good luck with Carbotech Bobcats and I do a lot of "spirited" driving and braking. I used to autocross the car a lot and would get pad deposits and horrible steering shake from it. Now that I'm back to stock brakes with Bobcats I'm still having fun diving into highway interchanges or finding some fun back roads to play on. Haven't had issues. I have used Hawk HPS as well under similar driving conditions and never had issues. I think both pads are going to be similar performance to the EBC's...perhaps a bit more dust though.
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Old 08-29-2009, 09:09 PM   #7
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I've had good luck with Carbotech Bobcats and I do a lot of "spirited" driving and braking. I used to autocross the car a lot and would get pad deposits and horrible steering shake from it. Now that I'm back to stock brakes with Bobcats I'm still having fun diving into highway interchanges or finding some fun back roads to play on. Haven't had issues. I have used Hawk HPS as well under similar driving conditions and never had issues. I think both pads are going to be similar performance to the EBC's...perhaps a bit more dust though.
I can't imagine more dust than the ebc reds. I can literally blow it out from that little space between the half of the pad.
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Old 08-29-2009, 11:18 PM   #8
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The Redstuff pads do not dust much.

"Shimmy" could mean a lot of things. It can also be caused by a lot of things.

My bro's had the Redstuff pads for a couple years, daily, auto-x, rally-x, and use the car between -20F and 100F. He runs shiny wheels too. The Redstuff pads are nice in that they act a LOT like stock pads...just with a little more bite and no fade under heavy use.
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Old 08-31-2009, 11:51 AM   #9
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The Redstuff pads do not dust much.

"Shimmy" could mean a lot of things. It can also be caused by a lot of things.

My bro's had the Redstuff pads for a couple years, daily, auto-x, rally-x, and use the car between -20F and 100F. He runs shiny wheels too. The Redstuff pads are nice in that they act a LOT like stock pads...just with a little more bite and no fade under heavy use.
Do I have to post pics? My wheels are ALWAYS dirty. Maybe your bro just cleans his wheels often?

If this was a new problem I could understand that "a lot of things" could be causing it. But I have spend months eliminating almost all those things.
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Old 08-31-2009, 01:34 PM   #10
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Can you describe your driving habits? If they are anything like me then I think the problem is pad deposits. No need to replace the rotors, just have them turned down to get rid of the deposits. My local autoparts store turns rotors for $10. That's a whole lot cheaper than buying new ones every time.

The brake dust is tough to do anything about. Its a property of pads, but its affected by driving/braking. The more you brake and the harder you brake the more energy you have to dissipate and the more pad material you end up using. Some of that material becomes annoying dust on the wheels .




If you understand how brakes work and know that they dissipate energy then this should make sense...

A normal driver may come into a corner, lift off throttle and coast a bit, gently apply the brakes, and turn the corner. Braking is done from 30mph down to 15mph to make the corner. I'll come into the same corner at 50mph brake down to 25mph and whip through the corner. The difference in kinetic energy is astounding.

30mph -> 15mph = change of ~97737 J
50mph -> 25mph = change of ~271488 J (2.8 times the energy to be dissipated)

This doesn't account for the fact that the normal driver is applying the brakes across a time of 4 seconds and I'm applying the brakes for 3. Not only am I releasing more energy, I'm doing it in less time. I'm creating more friction, generating more heat, eating up more pad, and creating more dust. When I happen to come to a complete stop some of that sticky pad material leaves itself on the rotor face. The next time I apply the brakes that spot is now a very small bump. Now that bump is going to start collecting bits of pad material every time I get on the brakes. Over time it gets progressively larger and sooner than later I start to get a little vibration and some shake in the steering wheel.



If you drive like the "normal" person then I think the problem might be that EBC pads suck.
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Old 08-31-2009, 02:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpalena View Post
Do I have to post pics? My wheels are ALWAYS dirty. Maybe your bro just cleans his wheels often?
Are the pads still relatively new? Mine dusted like hell until I wore all the way through the "break-in coating" that is on the contact side of the pad. Took a couple weeks but after that the dust died WAY down.
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:38 PM   #12
kpalena
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Originally Posted by viper74656 View Post
Are the pads still relatively new? Mine dusted like hell until I wore all the way through the "break-in coating" that is on the contact side of the pad. Took a couple weeks but after that the dust died WAY down.
I have had them since spring. I am going to wait and see if things get better...because it seems to be getting less and less pronounced. If they are still all crazy when I put my winter set up on, I am goint to put something more oem back on. I don't want this in the snow/ice.

scoob921. I have been driving more like the way you describe you drive and things are getting better. The dust is just too much to live with....
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Old 10-24-2009, 06:26 PM   #13
kpalena
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Default Problem Solved! (maybe)

So the more I read and the more I thought, this whole thing did not make sense. Instead of spending 200 bucks to replace the pads and rotors, I took a good hard look at how the system worked. I cleaned the rotors with a green scrubby and brake cleaner, then I saw what might be the problem. One of my guide pins was crazy dirty...it was really hard to pull out. I cleaned them back to clean metal, greased them up, and Voila! No more shimmy. I think one of the pads was getting hung up and making the rotor tuen un-true. That is why I could not feel it at low speeds...there was not enough force to make it happen. We shal see if this holds, but it feels good so far. 5 bucks and 2 hours work is better then 200 and 2 hours work.

My appologies to EBC...for now....
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:05 AM   #14
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my redstuff pads i just had installed on front and back with 4 new oem rotors make a drag sound. its my back brakes because its when i make slow right and left turns without braking do i get this dragging sound...anyone know what that is? i think the pads are dragging on the rotors.
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