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Old 01-22-2008, 03:27 PM   #1
Sausage
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Default Is it legal to use EcuFlash Copy a Cobb Protune ?

So this is going to a touchy subject and if I'm going about this unethically, let me know.

Got my car protuned with with the AP. But I'm having some trouble with boost and the car stuttering in 5th and WOT. I'm thinking that I could use EcuFlash to copy my protune, unmarry the AP, Sell AP, buy lc-1, then flash my protune back onto the car and work from that.

Does this violate any kinda of contracts or anything like that?

I'm not planning on distributing the tune. I just want to sell the AP, but keep that protune that I paid for.
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:48 PM   #2
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You won't get a total picture unless everything is stored on a base map with no real time map even then I'm not sure if everything will get pulled off. Even an OTS stage 2 showed up as having a 14psi boost target (and a few other discrepencies) when I pulled the rom off with ecuflash. I was just using enginuity to get my car to idle after installing injectors and a turbo inlet prior to getting protuned so it wasn't a big deal.

I know the V1 AP has a size limit for basemaps so there may be some portions of your map that were reflashed as a realtime map. To be honest I'm not too savy on all of the technical issues involved I'm just sharing my experience.
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Old 01-22-2008, 03:52 PM   #3
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I'm pretty sure everything is on the basemap. I don't think anything was done as a real time map. If it was, this won't work obviously.

I also want to be sure I'm not doing anything unethical.
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Old 01-22-2008, 04:25 PM   #4
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take it back to the tuner & make sure he doesn't charge you(unless you've changed something since the tune).

IMHO, if you edited a Cobb map using OpenECU Tools & you still owned the AP, no problems, totally ethical IMHO.

If you sell the AP & keep a clone of the Protune, I would say its unethical. HOWEVER, if you use OpenECU tools to see your Cobb Protuned map timing, fuel & boost/wgd values & modify an OEM map to match, that IS NOT copying the IP that Cobb's Realtime logic.
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Old 01-22-2008, 04:25 PM   #5
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Using the Cobb rom without owning the AP is unethical.

You should copy and paste the tables to a stock rom and then flash the stock rom. Just make sure you remember to copy all the tables. You'll get the same performance. Therefore, you would only be copying your Protune and not using the Cobb rom.

The Cobb rom is haxored with code in it that is not readily visible using the basic enginuity defs. They are all set up for real time tuning and some of them may have FFS and LC. You should NOT use the Cobb rom unless you own the AP.

Last edited by mickeyd2005; 01-22-2008 at 06:36 PM. Reason: highlighted for clarity
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mickeyd2005 View Post
Using the Cobb rom without owning the AP is unethical.

You should copy and paste the tables to a stock rom and then flash the stock rom. Just make sure you remember to copy all the tables. You'll get the same performance. Therefore, you would only be copying your Protune and not using the Cobb rom.

The Cobb rom is haxored with code in it that is not readily visible using the basic enginuity defs. They are all set up for real time tuning and some of them may have FFS and LC.
That's an awesome idea. Are there any tables that I won't be able to access in enginuity ?
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Old 01-22-2008, 05:46 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sausage View Post
That's an awesome idea. Are there any tables that I won't be able to access in enginuity ?
If you use the latest defs (December 2007), I believe all the important ones are there. Prior to that, some of the knock control parameters were missing, but those are fairly esoteric and the tuner shouldn't be messing with them. Things like feedback correction duration etc...

Enginuity also has some parameters that are not in ST or ST advanced (same as protuner).

Frankly, I am not all that confident that you want to keep your tune. From your own description, it sounds like a crappy tune to me. I've helped some people try to "fix" their bad tunes before. It sucks. It's better to start from scratch sometimes. This is especially true if the other tuner's philosophy is different than my own.
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Old 01-22-2008, 06:28 PM   #8
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12345



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sausage View Post
So this is going to a touchy subject and if I'm going about this unethically, let me know.

Got my car protuned with with the AP. But I'm having some trouble with boost and the car stuttering in 5th and WOT. I'm thinking that I could use EcuFlash to copy my protune, unmarry the AP, Sell AP, buy lc-1, then flash my protune back onto the car and work from that.

Does this violate any kinda of contracts or anything like that?

I'm not planning on distributing the tune. I just want to sell the AP, but keep that protune that I paid for.
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Old 01-24-2008, 11:43 AM   #9
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Somone posted on the Enginuity website how to pull the realtime maps. I've done it but it's been a while ago and I don't remember how.
Someone else here maybe remember since the Enginuity site is now down and that thread is unavailable.
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Old 01-24-2008, 12:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Arm View Post
Somone posted on the Enginuity website how to pull the realtime maps. I've done it but it's been a while ago and I don't remember how.
Someone else here maybe remember since the Enginuity site is now down and that thread is unavailable.
That would actually be awesome... I hope someone knows.
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Old 01-26-2008, 06:29 PM   #11
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FYI
I just pulled my ROM off with enginuity, my protune is almost entirely on a real-time map. The rom that came off of the ecu looks pretty much like a stock rom. Injectors scaled at 503, stock latency, stock maf tables, and stock boost targets (14psi). This was using the latest definitions and the recent enginuity test release w/ the maf/afc interpolation stuff.

If someone does know how to get all of the real time data I would sure appreciate it.

Jacob
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Old 01-26-2008, 06:58 PM   #12
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+1 for real time map info please
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:50 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by di2co View Post
FYI
I just pulled my ROM off with enginuity, my protune is almost entirely on a real-time map. The rom that came off of the ecu looks pretty much like a stock rom. Injectors scaled at 503, stock latency, stock maf tables, and stock boost targets (14psi). This was using the latest definitions and the recent enginuity test release w/ the maf/afc interpolation stuff.

If someone does know how to get all of the real time data I would sure appreciate it.

Jacob
The realtime info gone once you reset the ECU.

IMHO, I have read Cobb basemaps, you can tune it yourself better and the open source maps are really a better place to start from. I have tried to start from a Cobb map one time, now I go from scratch or from one of my own basemaps.

Gabe
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Old 01-26-2008, 09:29 PM   #14
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I'm no lawyer, I don't know what end-user agreements Cobb binds their products to, and this is my opinion:

Honestly, yes, it is unethical. Using their intellectual property without paying for it is a form of theft. Law aside, you would be avoiding paying them for use of their product, that is unethical, as well.

And stupid, as well. It might work, it might not. Best case, you wind up with a crappy tune that doesn't meet your needs that you have to attempt to fix. Worse case scenario, you bork your ECU, and have to buy a new one. The dealer notifies Cobb, and Mr. Cobb slaps the snot out of you personally and sues you sucessfully. (Pretty unlikely, this is just a bit of dark humor.)

A few suggestions here:
1. Go back to your tuner and tell them the tune needs work. If they're worth paying for, they will correct it for you. If they're scumbags who don't back their tunes...
2. Sell the AP if it isn't getting the job done. But if you're using the pro-tune, keep it.
3. If you ditch the AP, find a tuner who will work open-source. They're out there. Or buy a tune on-line and tweak it a bit. This is what I've done.
4. Get a Tactrix cable, a laptop, download Enginuity, and do it yourself. Find a nice map to start with on XPTTuning.org or somewhere else, and modify to meet your needs.


Pretty please, don't use open-source software to steal other poeple's work. It kind of makes everyone else using open-source look kind of crappy, you know?
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Old 01-27-2008, 12:59 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
The realtime info gone once you reset the ECU.

IMHO, I have read Cobb basemaps, you can tune it yourself better and the open source maps are really a better place to start from. I have tried to start from a Cobb map one time, now I go from scratch or from one of my own basemaps.

Gabe
I just wanted to be able to look at the some of the tables, I don't really want to change anything. My real-time map is still there I didn't reset the ecu I just tried to pull the rom off. If the real-time map was gone my car wouldn't run or at least not well. I'm pretty sure my 740s and big maf would make the car run like pooh if the real time maps weren't there and I was actually running on the rom that came off of ecu flash.

Jacob
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Old 01-27-2008, 01:12 AM   #16
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If you look carefully at the parameters that have been added to the ecu logger (December 2007 defs), you will realize that you can see all the target parameters in the tune.

You might need to do a couple of partial throttle logs to get the full timing map, but you can figure out whether it is a good tune or not just by checking the WOT logs.
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Old 01-28-2008, 05:53 PM   #17
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I actually made a copy of my Cobb stage 2 map before I unmarried my AP. I am lucky I did because durring the process the AP errored out and I couldn't get it to read write or do anything through the AP. The car wouldn't start, it was like I had no map at all. I plugged my tactix cable in and flashed the Cobb stage 2 map back to my ECU. The car started and ran fine. It took me 2 more tries of flash/reflash to get the AP to uninstall from my car with my stock map. I finally got the map off and flashed my own map onto my ECU. I am assuming that the saved map was the same as the origional AP map (since my car ran) I believe it's unethical to copy the map, then sell your AP and then reflash the cobb map back to your car. But it can be done.
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Old 04-09-2008, 11:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Arm View Post
Somone posted on the Enginuity website how to pull the realtime maps. I've done it but it's been a while ago and I don't remember how.
Someone else here maybe remember since the Enginuity site is now down and that thread is unavailable.
Any updates ?
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