Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday April 16, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Engine Management & Tuning > Open Source Reflashes

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-22-2008, 11:53 PM   #1
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
'02 WRX - Sold
Now 2013 WRX

Default A little stumped on this car

I couple days ago I got around to tuning a buddy's 2002 wrx.
Mods as follows:
18g 8cm^2
ebay tmic
3in tbe
catless uppipe
cold air intake
modded stock injectors
manual boost controller


So we took it out for a couple pulls to get a baseline and see where it was at with my basemap that I flashed on.
It seems OK, a little sluggish..noticed it was quite lean uptop, 12:1 at 6000rpm+ and around 11.5:1 in the midrange.
Lean for running 20psi that is.

Took it back, I made the adjustments to the map and got the fueling sorted out and added a couple degrees of timing, boost was left alone.
Everything looked good the second time around, I left it conservative knowing he only had 91oct. at home.

One thing I noticed is that the airflow was extremely low, around 4.4mafv, and the injector duty was topping out at 55-60%. For reference, I have a 20G and hit nearly 90% in the same temperature weather running about the same boost and same AFR's.


Next day he calls and says the car is feeling very very sluggish. I come check it out quickly, the tune seems to be in order, did a couple pulls..the tune seemed fine but the numbers aren't matching up to what it should be concerning injector duty and airflow for the amount of boost he is running.

He checked for boost leaks..found none. He is checking for compression tomorrow and is putting in new spark plugs.

Any other ideas guys??


Edit:
May I also add in that before he arrived here, a buddy of his did a spirited top-end run @ 130mph WOT on a base/limp tune at 20psi.
The tune was running 12:1 in the topend = possibly 1800*F temps for extended periods.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 01:47 AM   #2
Airboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 72829
Join Date: Oct 2004
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Canada
Vehicle:
2006 HTA68'd wagon
Powered by RomRaider

Default

Is the MAF good?
Airboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 02:35 AM   #3
benw
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103320
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Vehicle:
2005 wingless
aspen white

Default

ah so you're the guy. haha

He brought this car to a OKSC workday and I checked it out. It was running mid 10s AFR and the boost was only around 12 psi, I attributed it to his crummy EBC. Recommend he do a compression test and check his spark plugs to ensure they are fresh and the gap isn't too wide, blowing spark out.

We're probably going to have to dual-tune this thing back and forth, akira!
benw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 09:22 AM   #4
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
'02 WRX - Sold
Now 2013 WRX

Default

Don't know the MAF could be a problem as it seems the fueling targets are within 1 A/F of target/actual and the learning/correction is within +/- 5% in closed loop.

benw:
Yeah, there was something weird about the ebc, which at first I thought was a boost leak because it was wavering around as if it were compensating and didn't know what to do.
I just don't understand the low airflow numbers.
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 11:04 AM   #5
testes1010
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 47145
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Henderson, KY
Vehicle:
2012 Gas Saver

Default

The intake is skewing the MAF readings. It is different intake than you use?
testes1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 12:03 PM   #6
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
'02 WRX - Sold
Now 2013 WRX

Default

testes:
I don't think so, because the intake is a stock-sized diameter around the MAF sensor.
The proof is that the correction/learning is within acceptable limits with stock MAF scaling.
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 01:09 PM   #7
testes1010
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 47145
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Henderson, KY
Vehicle:
2012 Gas Saver

Default

Maybe your's(as comparison) is off?

As I've said before, the Perrin's SRIs which claim to be same as stock skew the MAFv horribly but the opposite direction.
testes1010 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2008, 02:27 PM   #8
benw
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103320
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Vehicle:
2005 wingless
aspen white

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
Don't know the MAF could be a problem as it seems the fueling targets are within 1 A/F of target/actual and the learning/correction is within +/- 5% in closed loop.

benw:
Yeah, there was something weird about the ebc, which at first I thought was a boost leak because it was wavering around as if it were compensating and didn't know what to do.
I just don't understand the low airflow numbers.
first thing we did when he brought the car to us was boost leak test it, and it leaked like a sieve. He found that on his ebay TMIC the previous owner had used the cardboard from a pack of batteries and cut it into a gasket shape for the y-pipe and bov! Boost leaks should be fixed.

Got any datalogs of the car you can email me? ben.a.west at gmail.com
benw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2008, 12:04 AM   #9
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
'02 WRX - Sold
Now 2013 WRX

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by benw View Post
first thing we did when he brought the car to us was boost leak test it, and it leaked like a sieve. He found that on his ebay TMIC the previous owner had used the cardboard from a pack of batteries and cut it into a gasket shape for the y-pipe and bov! Boost leaks should be fixed.

Got any datalogs of the car you can email me? ben.a.west at gmail.com
Yeah I heard it leaked pretty bad!

Before he came he said he fixed all the leaks, then after he left he checked it again and said it was holding 20psi at the tester just fine.
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 03:36 PM   #10
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
'02 WRX - Sold
Now 2013 WRX

Default

Brining this back up, does anyone else have anymore ideas?
Thanks.
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 04:47 PM   #11
jibber
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6675
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Your ECU
Vehicle:
98 SF5 some mods
01 allroad

Default

It's a "boost leak" (torretto) it's always been a "boost leak" (torretto)!



Have you physically pressurised the system and seen/ heard that there is not a massive boost leak as there was mentioned above?
jibber is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 04:49 PM   #12
quazimoto
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 70395
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Da-boonies,Va
Default

No logs?
quazimoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 10:14 PM   #13
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
'02 WRX - Sold
Now 2013 WRX

Default

He stopped by today actually and we decided to take a look at his intake filter. He has an Injen CAI installed, so the filter sits down by the pass. wheel well.
The filter was the most disgusting thing I have ever seen, very, very, very dirty. It looked as if someone had dipped it in mud almost!

So we ran to the auto store and picked up a new filter, installed it.
He claimed the car had a bit more grunt to it. I think he needs a new reflash now. Would have done it today if I had the time but I was in the middle of a clutch install.

Hopefully the logs will be more according now!
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2008, 11:19 PM   #14
nhat
#Belieber
Moderator
 
Member#: 140163
Join Date: Feb 2007
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: 3MI Racing
Vehicle:
03 STi
hellaflunctional

Default

hopefully the new filter will solve some of the issues. here's some info on the injen cai just in case. good luck!

http://harmanmotive.com/blog/?p=26

Quote:
The Injen has a unique design among cold air intakes. Most of the tubing is 3″ OD, but at the MAF sensor the piping size is smaller.
Quote:
Injen Intake: 275whp/278tq (+9hp/9tq)
Good gains across the board. Increased boost by .5 psi and WOT air/fuel ratios leaned out by 1.2 points! This took the air/fuel ratio from 11:1 before the intake to 12.3:1 after. The lean condition allowed the vehicle to make very high power numbers on the first pull, but there after it pulled a significant amount of timing due to the lean fuel mixture. Furthermore a knock event is evident in the graphs 6100rpm. Long term/short term fuel mixtures were off by as much as 25% with an average around 15%. This caused a bouncing idle and some odd drive ability issues. I would not recommend installing this intake w/o tuning.
Quote:
Injen Intake Tuned: 282whp/278tq (+16hp/+9tq)
Custom tuning the Injen intake allowed for an additional 7hp to be gained. Torque did not increase. This intake required a lot of tuning to correct the lean AFR observed before tuning. Once this was corrected, repeatable results were able to be achieved and power numbers were in-line with the other intakes. It is strongly recommenced you custom tune your vehicle if using this intake.
nhat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 08:59 AM   #15
jaxscuby
Sammo Hung
Moderator
 
Member#: 10613
Join Date: Sep 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: F L O R I D A
Vehicle:
2002 USDM WRX
WRB

Default

what about a fuel pump?
you don't have it listed above.
jaxscuby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2008, 09:24 AM   #16
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
'02 WRX - Sold
Now 2013 WRX

Default

Yes, there is a walbro in there.
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 04:24 AM   #17
benw
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 103320
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Oklahoma City
Vehicle:
2005 wingless
aspen white

Default

keep me posted. I would like to know that his car has a happy ending!

is the owner returning to OK anytime soon?
benw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 09:31 AM   #18
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
'02 WRX - Sold
Now 2013 WRX

Default

I don't think so for a while.
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2008, 11:59 PM   #19
JMS77
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 136833
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: NJ Precision Tuning
Default

Is the car fixed? What were you using to log AFR's? Do you have any datalogs so we can make a better diagnosis as to the problem? I am sure we can get you sorted out with a little more information.
JMS77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2008, 09:42 AM   #20
akira02rex
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 82612
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Vehicle:
'02 WRX - Sold
Now 2013 WRX

Default

LC1 was being used. I believe it's fixed. I have yet to datalog it - just been too busy with my own affairs.
akira02rex is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Hmm...Even Cobb Is Stumped On This One... Red Rexx Engine Management & Tuning 77 08-24-2005 07:08 PM
Hmm...Even Cobb Is Stumped On This One... Red Rexx Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 5 08-17-2005 08:20 PM
are these professors on this car at this japan car show.... more pics too RACER1269 Member's Car Gallery 14 02-03-2005 02:33 PM
Another Case: whoever left a little note on my car onlywiseman South East Region Forum 0 07-19-2004 04:55 PM
I got a little dent on my car.... Black&Blue Interior & Exterior Modification 6 12-11-2002 12:04 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:00 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.