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Old 01-25-2008, 02:45 AM   #1
Wrinkleboi
Top Scoob 006
 
Member#: 14424
Join Date: Jan 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Stuart, FL
Vehicle:
BugI w/ 07 STi Swap
www.TriStateTuners.com

Default 07 STi Logs... can you ID the source of the knock?

Don't know if this will amount to anything or not but I'm always looking to learn so perhaps this can be a good exercise for me to pick up some knowledge on how to log and what to look for.
I was only cruising around at light throttle because I recently went from a APS 65mm CAI to an APS 70mm CAI and I haven't gotten the MAF recalibrated properly yet.
I was surprised to see that when I accelerated a certain amount I got knock. It seemed to be about the same time when timing advance kicked in. Honestly I'm to out of the loop to be able to diagnose this myself, but if anyone can make sense of it please let me know.
The car currently has a professionally tuned map on it which wasnt 100%. I put a hold on the tuning because I am in the process of adding some more mods. I will be taking it for a professional tune once the car is complete and I dont have to drive the car until then, I just wanted to get the MAF in line a bit before installing PE 800cc injectors (and a FP Green).

07 STi
APS 70mm CAI
APS Turbo Inlet
VF43 Turbo
APS DR525 FMIC
TGV Delete
Perrin Headers
TXS Uppipe
Tial 44mm EWG
HKS Downpipe/Invidia Catback
Prodrive BCS
Code:
Time		AFC		AFL	    Load (g/rev)	RPM		 Base Time	Time Advance	Total Time	Man Rel Press	MAFv 		LC-1            FKC	    FLKC		Throttle
0		3.91		-6.25		0.29		769		15.16		0		14.5		-10.01		1.24		14.58		0		0		1.96
265		5.47		-6.25		0.31		756		15.16		0		15		-9.87		1.24		14.74		0		0		1.96
562		6.25		-6.25		0.36		786		20.3		0		22		-9.58		1.4		14.91		0		0		4.71
844		4.69		-5.47		0.48		992		31.36		0		32		-8.27		1.48		15.21		0		0		5.49
1140		0		-4.69		0.6		1248		36.64		0		37.5		-7.4		1.72		14.95		0		0		9.41
1437		-2.34		-3.12		0.8		1553		27.2		0.06		28.5		-4.79		1.98		13.72		0		0		14.9
1734		-1.56		-2.34		0.95		1797		22.51		0.68		24		-3.77		2.16		14.05		0		0		16.47
2031		3.12		-1.56		0.92		1918		24.21		0.77		26		-4.35		2.1		15.07		0		0		14.9
2328		-3.12		-0.78		0.9		1885		25.36		0.47		27		-4.79		2.08		13.69		0		0		14.9
2609		-2.34		0		0.91		1742		23.55		0.27		25		-4.64		2.06		14.45		0		0		14.51
2890		3.12		0.78		0.95		1712		21.82		0.4		23.5		-4.21		2.1		15.05		0		0		14.51
3187		0		1.56		0.86		1986		26.03		0.26		28.5		-4.35		2.08		14.33		0		0		14.9
3484		-3.12		1.56		0.82		2212		32.12		0		34		-4.79		2.14		13.94		0		0		15.29
3765		0.78		2.34		0.81		2414		34.26		0		36		-5.08		2.18		14.67		0		0		16.47
4047		3.12		2.34		0.76		2620		35.76		0		39		-5.37		2.18		14.69		0		0		16.08
4344		-3.91		4.69		0.75		2818		40.02		0		41.5		-5.37		2.26		13.73		0		0		16.47
4640		-7.81		4.69		0.73		3001		42.1		0		43		-5.51		2.32		14.16		0		0		17.25
4922		-5.47		4.69		0.7		3152		42.2		0		43.5		-6.09		2.28		14.74		0		0		16.47
5219		-6.25		4.69		0.64		3320		45.45		0		47.5		-7.25		2.24		14.35		0		0		16.08
5515		-7.81		4.69		0.62		3476		47.68		0		49		-7.55		2.24		14.29		0		0		16.08
5797		-2.34		4.69		0.6		3603		48.33		0		50		-7.84		2.28		14.66		0		0		16.47
6078		-7.03		4.69		0.27		3642		49.35		0		48.5		-10.3		1.64		14.27		0		0		8.63
6359		0		4.69		0.2		3529		41.7		0		41.5		-11.32		1.64		12.79		0		0		7.84
6656		0		3.91		0.18		3368		33.76		0		33.5		-11.46		1.52		13.58		0		0		7.06
6937		0		4.69		0.23		3100		32.63		0		20		-11.03		1.72		13.92		0		0		9.02
7234		-1.56		4.69		0.57		2820		47.35		0		30.5		-8.13		2.14		14.38		0		0		14.12
7515		-10.16		4.69		0.65		2378		43.68		0		45.5		-7.98		2		13.36		0		0		13.33
7812		-12.5		4.69		0.88		2356		33.78		0.01		33.5		-6.09		2.3		13.88		0		0		16.86
8094		-7.03		3.91		1.16		2473		14.98		1.96		11		-3.34		2.5		14.74		-5		0		22.35
8390		-11.72		3.91		1.21		2578		12.5		2.15		9.5		-2.9		2.52		13.83		-5		0		23.14
8750		-11.72		3.12		1.29		2700		12.14		2.52		9		-2.18		2.6		14.69		-5		0		23.92
9187		-12.5		2.34		1.3		2818		13.66		2.39		10.5		-1.89		2.72		14.13		-5		0		23.14
9484		-8.59		2.34		1.04		3017		21.63		0.26		19.5		-2.9		2.5		14.64		-5		0		20
9875		-5.47		0		0.98		3133		28.5		0		25.5		-3.48		2.54		14.82		-5		0		18.82
10109		-1.56		0		0.79		3232		37.8		0		39.5		-5.37		2.34		14.42		0		0		17.65
10390		-5.47		0		0.51		3284		47.27		0		48.5		-7.4		2.08		14.61		0		0		14.9
10672		7.81		0.78		0.54		3334		47.66		0		49		-7.55		2.16		16.36		0		0		14.9
10953		9.38		1.56		0.53		3372		47.97		0		49		-7.84		2.16		14.54		0		0		14.9
11250		5.47		1.56		0.52		3398		48.12		0		49		-7.98		2.14		14.29		0		0		14.9
11547		8.59		2.34		0.57		3454		48.49		0		49.5		-7.98		2.24		14.67		0		0		15.69
11828		5.47		2.34		0.56		3496		48.15		0		50		-7.98		2.18		13.98		0		0		15.29


SEPERATE LOG - NO THROTTLE POSITION

Time		AFC		AFL	    Load (g/rev)	RPM		 Base Time	Time Advance	Total Time	Man Rel Press	MAFv 		LC-1            FKC	    FLKC		Throttle
12562		-10.16		4.69		0.62		3402		47.2		0		49.5		-7.11		2.24		14.55		0		0
12843		-8.59		4.69		0.62		3427		47.23		0		49.5		-7.25		2.28		14.7		0		0
13125		-11.72		4.69		0.64		3438		46.97		0		49		-7.25		2.26		14.27		0		0
13390		-11.72		4.69		0.63		3471		47.07		0		49.5		-7.25		2.28		14.41		0		0
13671		-13.28		4.69		0.57		3491		48.17		0		50		-7.69		2.22		14.27		0		0
13937		-14.06		4.69		0.2		3424		44.98		0		29.5		-10.88		1.64		14.3		0		0
14203		0		3.91		0.17		3207		37.65		0		22		-11.17		1.54		12.64		0		0
14468		0		4.69		0.2		2870		32.52		0		20		-11.03		1.54		14.89		0		0
14750		9.38		4.69		0.38		2527		49.26		0		26.5		-9.58		1.84		16.01		0		0
15015		7.81		4.69		0.88		2646		31.64		0		22		-5.66		2.28		14.88		0		0
15296		-14.84		4.69		0.98		2629		25.26		0		28.5		-4.64		2.38		12.2		0		0
15578		-15.62		4.69		0.99		2640		27.3		0		24.5		-4.79		2.4		14.71		-5		0
15859		-13.28		3.91		1.05		2660		22.94		0.39		20		-4.35		2.48		14.77		-5		0
16125		-15.62		3.12		1.05		2668		20.84		1.88		18.5		-4.06		2.46		14.35		-5		0
16390		-11.72		3.12		0.99		2680		24.89		0		22.5		-4.21		2.4		14.96		-5		0
16671		-8.59		2.34		0.96		2703		27.26		0		24.5		-4.21		2.34		14.58		-5		0
16953		-10.16		2.34		0.93		2740		29.47		0		27		-4.64		2.36		14.35		-5		0
17203		-6.25		0		0.92		2756		28.92		0		27		-4.06		2.38		14.88		-5		0
17484		-1.56		0		0.91		2788		31.76		0		30		-4.79		2.36		14.7		-4.3		0
17765		-6.25		0		0.93		2795		31.22		0		33		-4.64		2.4		14.04		0		0
18031		-7.81		0		0.9		2816		33.61		0		35		-4.64		2.44		14.48		0		0
18296		-3.91		0		0.86		2832		32.38		0		35		-4.93		2.34		14.85		0		0
18578		-7.03		0		0.85		2874		34.24		0		36.5		-5.08		2.32		13.95		0		0
18843		-3.91		0		0.81		2892		37.17		0		39.5		-5.22		2.28		14.55		0		0
19109		-6.25		0		0.81		2908		36.16		0		39		-5.22		2.28		14.44		0		0
19390		-6.25		0		0.81		2916		36.34		0		38.5		-5.37		2.32		14.49		0		0
19656		-6.25		0		0.82		2948		37.1		0		39		-5.37		2.36		14.24		0		0
19937		-9.38		0		0.77		2961		38.13		0		41		-5.51		2.22		14.42		0		0
20218		-3.91		0		0.81		2984		37.09		0		39		-5.37		2.38		14.71		0		0
20500		-8.59		0		0.82		2997		37		0		39		-5.37		2.36		14.05		0		0
20765		-8.59		0		0.86		2998		34.17		0		36.5		-4.93		2.4		14.51		0		0
21031		-4.69		0		0.91		3028		32.69		0		34.5		-4.5		2.46		14.67		0		0
21312		-10.16		0		0.88		3051		33.12		0		35.5		-4.64		2.42		13.94		0		0
21578		-7.81		0		0.88		3038		33.56		0		36		-4.64		2.38		14.67		0		0
21859		-3.91		0		0.83		3055		33.5		0		36.5		-4.79		2.36		14.69		0		0
22125		-7.81		0		0.86		3072		35.15		0		37		-4.79		2.4		14.44		0		0
22390		-6.25		0		0.87		3093		34.64		0		36		-4.64		2.5		14.54		0		0
22671		-7.81		0		0.88		3098		33.37		0		35.5		-4.5		2.46		14.41		0		0
22937		0		0		0.81		3124		35.88		0		38.5		-5.08		2.34		14.44		0		0
23234		-7.03		0		0.8		3136		37.46		0		40		-5.22		2.38		13.96		0		0
23500		-3.91		0		0.82		3144		37.38		0		39		-5.37		2.44		14.7		0		0
23765		-7.03		0		0.8		3155		39.15		0		41		-5.51		2.4		14.17		0		0
24046		-5.47		0		0.76		3144		38.61		0		41.5		-5.66		2.32		14.66		0		0
24312		-7.03		0		0.66		3148		43.58		0		46		-6.24		2.2		14.33		0		0
24593		-10.94		0		0.19		3119		44.27		0		28.5		-10.45		1.5		14.04		0		0
24859		-12.5		0		0.18		2799		38.78		0		23.5		-10.74		1.5		12.52		0		0
25140		-6.25		0		0.2		2442		32.03		0		16.5		-11.03		1.52		17.43		0		0
25421		15.62		0.78		0.62		2761		48.35		0		25.5		-7.98		2.22		19.96		0		0
25687		24.22		0		0.91		2622		36.53		0		35		-5.66		2.5		14.29		0		0
25968		0.78		0		0.95		2634		26.02		0		28.5		-5.08		2.34		11.23		0		0
26234		-21.09		0		0.84		2620		32.77		0		35.5		-5.8		2.2		12.86		0		0
26500		-10.16		0		0.92		2630		29.77		0		32		-5.08		2.32		15.77		0		0
26796		-4.69		0		0.99		2632		25.61		0		27.5		-4.5		2.38		13.41		0		0
27062		-10.94		0		0.97		2656		25.51		0		23		-4.5		2.34		14.21		-5		0
27343		-10.94		0		0.95		2668		28.04		0		25.5		-4.79		2.4		14.49		-5		0
27625		-6.25		0		0.96		2652		28.02		0		25		-4.79		2.34		14.77		-5		0
27906		-9.38		0		0.93		2674		27.85		0		25.5		-4.79		2.38		14.21		-5		0
28171		-8.59		0		0.91		2673		30.59		0		33		-4.93		2.32		14.79		0		0
28437		-3.91		0		0.93		2676		29.16		0		31		-5.08		2.4		14.82		0		0
28718		-7.81		0		0.9		2682		31.14		0		33.5		-4.93		2.34		13.89		0		0
28984		-5.47		0		0.94		2684		28.15		0		30.5		-4.64		2.34		14.76		0		0
29250		-8.59		0		0.97		2711		28.38		0		30.5		-4.79		2.44		14.32		0		0
29531		-7.81		0		0.93		2715		30.39		0		32.5		-4.93		2.36		14.57		0		0
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Old 01-25-2008, 11:49 AM   #2
mickeyd2005
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Are you sure you have the columns labeled correctly? Is FKC really Feedback Knock Correction? It looks more like Fine Learning Knock Correction.

IF it is really Feedback Knock Correction, then you have knock here:

Load RPM

0.88 2356
1.16 2473

0.98 2629
0.99 2640

0.99 2632
0.97 2652

Keep in mind that I think you have the column labels flipped.
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Old 01-25-2008, 12:16 PM   #3
Wrinkleboi
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yeah they're labelled correctly. what would make you say that they arent? because it jumps right up to -5?
its like as soon as theres any real load on the engine it knocks, so i was driving very gently. things like merging onto the highway, etc were definitely a lot slower than normal.

edit: i see where the knock is, trying to figure out what the cause of it might be.

Last edited by Wrinkleboi; 01-25-2008 at 12:51 PM.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:05 PM   #4
mickeyd2005
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Usually, FKC jumps in increments of 2 degrees during the knock event and then it tapers off until you let go of the throttle at which point it shuts off. Yours shuts off quite quickly even though your throttle only changes slightly at the time of shutoff.

On yours, it's a constant over a certain rpm and load range. To me that looks like FKLC. That's why I mentioned it.

Can you post your actual csv file? Post it on www.box.net.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:18 PM   #5
Wrinkleboi
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here's a single excel file with a few logs in it... right click save as or it wont display properly

http://www.bryantroll.com/other/engi..._004943web.csv
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:32 PM   #6
mickeyd2005
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Sorry. No clue as to what could be causing it. It does seem pretty consistent.

Maybe try dropping 1 degree at 1 g/rev base timing between 2000 and 2700 rpm?

I thought it might be tip-in but your throttle isn't changing that much and your AFR seems reasonble. Also, you are still in closed loop.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:56 PM   #7
Master2192
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Yes he is in closed loop, pretty obvious when correction is moving all over the place. Some pretty wild swings in correction, you need to get that MAF figured out before you can even begin playing with timing. I am not sure how competent your tuner is with the 07 STI ecu but it can be a real pain which could be causing him trouble.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:59 PM   #8
Wrinkleboi
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yeah i've already made some progress in getting the maf scaled better... i ran the maf scaler right after i took those logs.
the problem is its knocking when i have the car out to scale the maf! so i wanted to make things ultra conservative and safe so i dont have to worry about any more knock while i'm out trying to get the maf scaled properly.
just want to take things on step at a time...
i can reduce timing there but hell its at -5... thats not just a degree or two so i figured something else might be up thats throwing it off so far.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:01 PM   #9
mickeyd2005
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Even if knock is causing the ecu to pull 5 degrees of timing, it doesn't mean it takes 5 degrees to correct it. This is especially true if it is Feedback Correction. Less true if it is FLKC.

+1 to retuning your MAF scale first.
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Old 01-25-2008, 02:05 PM   #10
gabedude
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-5 is odd. Did you change how much timing is pulled per event? I agree you must have mis-labeled them. It looks like FLKC is all in closed loop cruise. Scale your MAF, then dial it out.
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:21 PM   #11
Wrinkleboi
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that excel file is straight from the enginuity log, so i dont know how it could be mixed up...

i used the maf scaler for about 30 mins last night on the highway just cruising around gently and applied adjusments to my map from about 1.6v - 2.6v so the maf should be more in line now than it was with the logs posted above.

what else can i log to find out why i'm getting this 'knock'? or what should i look for in my map to make sure its set properly?
dont know if these are reasonable questions or not, i just thought this is a good opportunity to learn by doing. i'd like to continue getting the maf in line but of course i dont want to be putting my car in danger in the process.

thanks for all the help so far...
bryan
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:42 PM   #12
vetteboi88
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I'd be looking at heatshields and other items in the engine bay that may be rattling around and throwing false knock.
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