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Old 02-05-2002, 10:57 AM   #1
MY99 2.5GT
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Default Brullen Headers-Are They Really Made By Brullen?

I am wondering if these Headers are really made and sold by Brullen. There is no hint of these Headers on Brullen's web site.

http://www.brullenexhaust.com/welcome.htm

Also Brullen seems to be known for their qaulity cat-backs. Due to resent posts about the poor qaulity and the corner cutting manufacturing style of whoever made the "Brullen" headers tells me that something isn't right. Why would a notable exhaust company design/reproduce/ and sell a product that is seemingly substandard comparatively to their other products.

Emails have been sent to Brullen to see if they will own up to producing this product.

I mean no offense to those who purchased the Brullen set through the group-buy. The reason this interests me is because I almost got in on that group buy and was planning to buy the Brullen set if they seemed to perform well.

I would like to get to the bottom of this. So if anyone has any information that I am missing please post it here. I will post the responses we get back from Brullen regarding this matter.

Brad
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Old 02-05-2002, 12:57 PM   #2
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Another question...

Did the "Brullen" headers ever get CARB cert? This was discussed many times but no one has given a definite confirmation. Some people were concerned about competing in STS class and needing carb, though the headers would still be illegal since you can't replace the cats in STS, IIRC.
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Old 02-05-2002, 01:03 PM   #3
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The headers are indeed manufactured by brullen, I saw them being made when I went to get my exhaust adjusted..

Make no mistake, they do have high quality exhaust systems, but they are infinately simply to produce versus the equal lenght, ceramic coated headers. And I've noticed that sometimes the exhausts systems can be a little "off" (My exhaust had to be dropped down a touch as it was too close to the bumper).

As to CARB certification, I couldn't tell you... but considering the headers elminate both cats and replace them with one high flow cat, I'd kinda doubt the smog nazis at CARB would certify it, but I could be wrong.

One thing is for sure though, the headers do make quite a big difference, and brullen has an excellent warranty.

Last edited by JaiMak; 02-05-2002 at 05:22 PM.
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Old 02-05-2002, 02:40 PM   #4
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I can tell you that they did make them because I was at their shop to have mine installed and they had ALL the components in different stages and were building them. First rate Shop for all exhaust work. They do a variety of makes and models!!!

Remember they haven't had these headers out for long so RD goes on, just like any new product launch in the automotive industry!!

The service and warranty from Brullen and Richard is head and shoulders above the rest.

Know saying that they have been under the gun for these headers, and some changes were in process to help the production so they may stumbled on some parts but I'm sure they will rectify any problems ASAP
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Old 02-05-2002, 03:39 PM   #5
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Angry whats with all the Brullen bashing???

Ok, I think its time for another monthly GooseMan rant here....

Whats up with all the Brullen bashing going on around here? I mean, every day I see it "I got a CE light....the headers are of poor quality....whats with the crappy design??....when will they fix everything??...why is this like this, and that like that??...etc etc.....

Now, you tell me that you dont BELIEVE that Brullen is actually producing the headers? Come on! Get REAL! Thats absurd! Maybe they didnt get a chance to put them on their website...

OK, I admit, the headers arent PERFECT....yet, but they still are better and more reliable than anything else on the market. And by the looks of it they know they had a problem, and they are devoting ALL their time and energy trying to fix it, as well as offering people to replace and/or fix all the headers they've sold. You wont see this from many other manufacturers out there.

I mean, this company went out of their way to design, build and test headers, only to have a SLIGHT CE problem, which they are spending even MORE time fixing, and nobody apreciates it! All I hear about on these boards is people bitching and complaining! I'm sick of it! If you think youre so great and you can build a better header, FINE, go ahead and do it! I wanna see how many problems you'll run into!

JoeT, Richard @ Brullen, the Rev-Lab gang and countless others took the time to develop these headers for us...if they didnt have the balls to do it, noone would, and we'd be stuck buying garbage Borlas or ultra-expensive CUSCO stuff. And for that, I applaud them. You should too.

:monkey:

PS- this rant is not directed at you, Brad....just using this thread.....
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Old 02-05-2002, 04:42 PM   #6
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Ditto. Those headers rock!! the sound is amazing and the power is very noticable, 4th and 5th pull real nice on the highway. I would buy from them again in a heartbeat. They are good quality. Great customer support that you wont find from borla, mrt, or syms. Havent had a CE light for 250miles i think the computer is getting used to them. The first CE was at 78 miles the next was at 164miles and this one is going past 250. Even if that never went away Brullen has a fix for this. By moving the O2 sensor to the front of the cat STU has'nt had a CE in over 600Km. Give em a shot you wont be disapointed. What are your other options CE lights to no end, welds cracking"cough" Borla ,no liftime warranty.


This is the first time i ever did anything to any car nevermind a full exaust job, granted it was'nt easy but i did manage to get them on and be seemingly problem free for 3 weeks now. I may have a leak at the donut but it could be in my head too im paraniod at the slightest difference in the way she growls now. I'm still not used to the purr. this is by far the loudest car ive ever owned.

This is the only mod ive done to my car so im sure that as soon as i go CAI there will be much more air flow and the power will be even better.
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Old 02-05-2002, 04:58 PM   #7
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So Joe T and Richard work for Brullen?

"OK, I admit, the headers arent PERFECT....yet, but they still are better and more reliable than anything else on the market."

I would re-evaluate the above statement.

I have to give Brullen Kudos for puting a heat coating on the headers. That is a length that no other header manufacturers for our cars have done if I recall correctly.

"I mean, this company went out of their way to design, build and test headers, only to have a SLIGHT CE problem, which they are spending even MORE time fixing, and nobody apreciates it! All I hear about on these boards is people bitching and complaining! I'm sick of it!"

The CE light is not the problem I am talking about. + Just because a company bends over backwards and puts a lot of time into doing something doesn't always mean that it is good or people should buy it. The problems I was thinking of are the ones addressed in this thread.
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Old 02-05-2002, 05:06 PM   #8
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"If you think youre so great and you can build a better header, FINE, go ahead and do it! I wanna see how many problems you'll run into!"

Fair enough. I have a few drawings of some simple modifications that could be made to the existing header design that would help the exhaust flow much smoother. I'd be willing to bet that by using an existing Brullen header and making the simple add on modification I would suggest, you could make more power with essentialy the same design as you already have.

As for build qaulity I have no expertise working with metals nore do I claim to. In that sense those headers are way better then what I could manufacture from scratch in my garage.

By the way Brullen if you are interested in my design, if you build them and they do make more power then the current design, will you hire me? Please

Thanks
Brad
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Old 02-05-2002, 05:26 PM   #9
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Joe Doesn't work for Brullen, but he was the one that prompted them to make the headers, for the benefit of 2.5 engines everywhere..
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Old 02-05-2002, 07:28 PM   #10
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Take a look at the picture I have attached. This is one reason that led some of us to an odd conclusion. Since everyone had been putting so much hype into Brullen, I didn't think that such a well-known and respected exhaust manufacturer would let something like this get out of their factory.

I have never seen any sort of imperfections or careless manufacturing equal to this on an MRT system or a Borla. And no, inequal length is not an imperfection. Everyone blows the whole borla-cracking way out of proportion. And where did they get that Borla has no warranty?

A friend of mine from this board owns the Borla headers. He had one of the generations known for this cracking. A weld cracked, he called them, they sent him out new headers, without that unnecessary bracket that caused the crack, and they have not had any problems since. Not only were they helpful, but they were speedy about it as well. Also, CELs are very uncommon on Borlas, since the cat is the problem area. So how is Borla inferior in the service department? They aren't working on a fix for a CEL? The later ECUs are just as picky as the CARB certification, so I won't be surprised if Brullen cannot completely solve all of the issues on the 2000+ cars.

Borla is certainly not inferior in experience. They have developed headers for countless vehicles. This is Brullen's first stab at it. I can see the brullen system getting better, and I am sure it will. For now, I see a lot of bugs that they need to work out, and that poor junction in the picture is a big one. Are they going to recall their headers to correct that? Or was it just corey's and AJ's systems that ended up that way? Or perhaps they are going to keep quiet and hope that most owners don't even notice.

I still haven't seen any gains from the brullen system, at least not impressive ones. 9HP? SCC showed that 6HP can be had from a cat-back alone. Does that mean the header is making a whopping 3HP?

I love the sound of the Borla headers. Until I see a brullen-equipped, non-internally-modded RS making more than 206 lb-ft at the flywheel, I will stick with the Borlas.

Does everyone really think that Cobb's choice in performance headers is a bad one? He owns an engine dyno!
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Old 02-05-2002, 07:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by BugBomb
I still haven't seen any gains from the brullen system, at least not impressive ones. 9HP? SCC showed that 6HP can be had from a cat-back alone. Does that mean the header is making a whopping 3HP?
VERY faulty logic.

Quote:
I love the sound of the Borla headers. Until I see a brullen-equipped, non-internally-modded RS making more than 206 lb-ft at the flywheel, I will stick with the Borlas.
and if you believe there is a non-internally modded borla equipped car out there thats putting out 206 lbs-ft of torque, your out of your mind.

Quote:
He owns an engine dyno!
sure thing there buddy.
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Old 02-05-2002, 08:55 PM   #12
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There are some other things to consider in all of this.

First off, this might be Brullen's first attempt at this type of a system. I don't know for sure, but it seems they were mainly in the Cat-back business before this. How anyone can expect perfection the first time around is beyond me. Everyone is entitled to make mistakes, it's all a part of the learning process. I'm sure Brullen is writing down all the comments that are being made here and being sent to them, and making notes as to how to make things better. It isn't called Research and Developement for nothing. It was even said in the original buy thread that these are first production units. An I-club member was used as a test subject. I am a test subject. Everyone who has bought a unit is a test subject. These units have not been in production for 20 years, such as Borla has.

Borla has been around for 20 years, working with the auto industry, making headers and cat-back systems for motorcycles, cars and trucks (it says they're used on UPS trucks). So they are obviously experianced in this matter. There's one thing you cannot compare here, and that is experiance. I'm not saying Brullen isn't to be trusted, or that their product isn't worth the money, I'm saying they are still learning what it is all about.

Now, does that change my opinion about my set up? No, I'm quite happy. The sound is what I was looking for, the car pulls better, breaths easier and over all seems to run a lot smoother. I was not out for the numbers. I orignally was going to purchase a Brullen cat-back before the headers appeared, and I figured it would be safe to keep the entire set up under one company's name. I'm pleased with how my car is running, and the work being done by Brullen and Rev-Lab.

My appologies for the rantish reply here, but something positive needed to be said . BugBomb, I know you're not impressed with things, and I'm not out to change your opinion, and nothing that was said here was aimed at you, or anyone else for that matter.
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Old 02-05-2002, 11:01 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRacer

VERY faulty logic.
Granted, you cannot add and subtract HP like that, but my point was that 9HP/11lb-ft from a full system is not very impressive to me.

Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRacer

and if you believe there is a non-internally modded borla equipped car out there thats putting out 206 lbs-ft of torque, your out of your mind.
Perhaps you should do more research before jumping to conclusions like this. Do you think Borla's headers are incapable of bringing an RS up to 206 lb-ft at the flywheel?

Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRacer

sure thing there buddy.
Well, it's true. Cobb now has their own in-house, AWD dyno to test all of their parts (excuse me if "engine dyno" confused anyone). And the only headers he sells for the EJ25 are Borlas.

AJ,
I don't hold anything against you. I may not like the brullen system personally, but Jake and I will help you install anything on your car if that is what you want.
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Old 02-05-2002, 11:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by BugBomb
Perhaps you should do more research before jumping to conclusions like this. Do you think Borla's headers are incapable of bringing an RS up to 206 lb-ft at the flywheel?


i dont think. i know. and your the only one i see jumping to conclusions.
and if your referring to cobbs car that has a claimed 206lbs-ft of torque at the crank (and thats all it is, is 'claimed') i have NO idea why you just claimed that "borla headers are capable of bringing an RS up to 206lbs-ft of torque at the flywheel", if your talking abou this car, becuz the borla headers on that car have NOTHING to do with that cars engines astounding preformance numbers. when that car was dynoed it had spicy cams, stage 1 heads, 10.5:1 compression ratio, extrudehoned intake manifold, 64mm bored out TB, ud pulleys, lightened flywheel, stromoung midpipe and muffler, haltech engine management system, AND borla headers. thats over $6,000 in just parts, NOT including the headers, probly over 24hrs of labour went into building that engine. wow, if it werent for those borla headers treys car would be no where near that magical 172whp mark
which brings me to my next point...even if borla's headers where the major factor in cobbs cars preformance numbers... *bwahahahahahaha*....sorry.....back to the point, i would bet my left nut before believing treys car is putting out 222hp and 206 lbs-ft of torque at the crank. 172whp and 160 lbs-ft is gonna be closer to ~206hp and ~193lbs-ft at the flywheel. the 206 torque number is bs anyway.

Quote:
Well, it's true. Cobb now has their own in-house, AWD dyno to test all of their parts (excuse me if "engine dyno" confused anyone). And the only headers he sells for the EJ25 are Borlas.

engine dyno and chassis dyno are two very different things my friend, but ill give you that one . guess i might of been a little to nitpicky on words.....maybe

Last edited by SubyRacer; 02-06-2002 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 02-06-2002, 01:14 AM   #15
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Hi All,

Let me introduce myself: I am a professional services consultant for a $700M integration company, check out www.nexinnovations.com (hope they don't shoot me for this) GE Capital ITS before Nexinnovations.

Cars are a passion and a hobby for me. I've been racing in Autocrosses for 15 years, places 2nd in the Ontario regionals for 3 years in a row in a bone stock 98 and 99 Honda Prelude.

3rd last year in the Mazda/RX Pro-Solo in a bone stock (at that time) family sedan (Subaru Legacy) out of a field of 70 cars on street tires (GForce KD). Streaming videos were available through www.radismotorsports.com

How did any of this come about? In addition to the Brullen relationship, I am also the president of the Toronto Subaru Club, over 253 local members.

Our sponsors include:
Brullen Exhaust www.brullenexhaust.com
Japanese Automotive www.japanese-auto.com (ECU Tuning / CAMS)
Wheels Direct www.wheels-direct.com (Wheels & Tires)
Marino's Fine Cars http://www.marinos.subarudealer.ca/ (Special rates for new cars and excellent service and discounts for our members)

Part of my responsibilities to the Subaru Club of Toronto is to provide access and preferred treatment to our membership through strategic partnerships with our sponsors.

My personal mandate is to locate and partner with organizations that would benefit our membership.

The business plan for our club included a balance sheet that is in the black and is completely self supporting.

Yes, I started the Brullen Header Campaign, just like I'm starting the Tuned ECU and Performance Camshaft campaign with Japanese Auto, and that is just a few items I'm doing for our club, and hopefully share with others with the same interest.

I really did not intend to preturb anyone, just wanted to offer others what we are enjoying here in Toronto.

Case and Point:
BTW: Yoshio of Japanese Auto is the only OBDII Certified ECU Programmer in Canada, and he is also the most widely used tuner for rally cars, and was also trained by TRD.

We were extremely lucky in enlisting his help to focus his talents on Subaru's. He's also one of the sponsors that will be supporting the Team TSC Autocross racers. Why spend money for Piggback ECU's when the stock ECU can be completely remapped and tuned to your particular driving preference. He actually spent over $40K to get the equipment required to remap Subaru ECU's for our club.

What I don't really understand is why some people have taken it upon themselves to preach negativity about a product, and do so with tenacity. If I did anything to piss you off, I am sorry. All I was doing was opening the doors to whomever wanted to participate. The bottom line is, no one is forcing anyone to buy the any of these products, and I don't think I ever bashed any other persons products as well, this is a small thing we learn in business called "Professional Ethics". I respect people like Larry Ganz, kartboy, Trey Cobb, etc. These people conduct business like professionals.

The Headers (though not perfect) perform as prescribed, they were designed to augment the mid RPM range and therefore will not produce ultimate HP like "shorties", these things produce "Grunt", or a flat torque curve.

I just got home (see the time stamp) from helping Richard install 2 more fixes (Natas / Hyabusa). This is the final stage for all the fixes and if this works, the CAT fix + the Electronic fix campaign will begin shortly. Show me any other company that will do that to preserve customer confidence.

If you have any questions about anything, I am the source for information with regards to the Brullen Campaign, Japanese Auto CAMS and ECU Campaign, this is not my job, I do this because I enjoy helping people whenever I can.

Come visit us at our website sometimes and check out the activities, the motto for our club is "Fun & Friendly".

http://www.toronto-subaru-club.com

End Rant.
Thanks for listening (Reading)

Last edited by JoeT; 02-06-2002 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 02-06-2002, 01:23 AM   #16
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Oh Yeah,

Thank you BugBomb for putting up the picture in the original "Another Brullen Install" thread.

After I saw the picture, I contacted Brullen and sent a PM out to midnx03. He should receive the replacement before the end of the week. The QC issue was realized immediately and action has been initiated.

As many people will confirm, including midnx03, action is always taken as close to immediately as possible. There is no conspiracy here.

Thanks again
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Old 02-06-2002, 07:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRacer

i dont think. i know. and your the only one i see jumping to conclusions.
If you "know" then you are wrong. If you go here you will see a post from Eric "Special K", who placed 2nd in the US nationals for STS class SCCA Pro Solo 2 in 2000, got his car dynoed at Altered Atmosphere here in Maryland. They reached a widely accepted drivetrain loss figure from testing of stock Imprezas on the same dyno. His car, with no internal modifications, dynoed consistently at or over 200 lb-ft, corrected numbers at the flywheel. Eric didn't even have a high-flow cat on the car.
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Old 02-06-2002, 08:32 AM   #18
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JoeT,
You have done nothing wrong. Your support in this project has been excellent, and I am glad that you and brullen are working to make things right.

You are right, you haven't been attacking other manufacturers. However, a few people on this board insist on exaggerating claims and spreading false rumors against the Borla headers and others. There is evidence of that in this very thread. Look at ImprezaKev's response above.

He says "What are your other options CE lights to no end, welds cracking"cough" Borla ,no liftime warranty."

The CEL claims for the Borla system are just as few and far between as the brullens, and there are more Borlas out there right now. The welds cracking is an exaggeration. There have been few instances of this, only on a particular generation that has been fixed. And the "no lifetime warranty" is a false claim. Borla is warrantied for 1,000,000 miles. Check their site. Borla
That sounds just as good as a lifetime warranty to me, since I doubt I will put 1,000,000 miles on my RS. And if you do have the gen of header that can possibly crack, they will gladly replace it for free.

JoeT, I am not aiming my comments at you. You are doing a great job. Your followers have been pushing people to buy your product by spreading negativity about other products. If you would like a couple more examples, I could accomodate.

Having said that, my recent brullen discussions have been completely factual, discussing only immediate and obvious concerns, such as the pipe obstruction. A couple people have shown that they don't want my opinions of the brullen header clouding up their threads. That's fine. If I feel like sharing my opinion of it, I will start my own thread, where no brullen enthusiasts are forced to read it.
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Old 02-06-2002, 08:44 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRacer


i dont think. i know
I don't think you know either !


Sorry I had to take advantage of that.
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Old 02-06-2002, 10:02 AM   #20
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I've never had a problem with CEL with my Borla Gen III header. It DID crack at the left sided stiffening bracket, but borla replaced the unit for free.

My objection is the cost of these units and the build quality. For $450 buckes, I deserve a TIG welded header.... thats not what I got.... But the brullen system is even more expensive, and from what I hear the production methods are similer (and power gains), so I guess I made the right decision....

--Roy
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Old 02-06-2002, 10:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by LUME
I've never had a problem with CEL with my Borla Gen III header. It DID crack at the left sided stiffening bracket, but borla replaced the unit for free.

My objection is the cost of these units and the build quality. For $450 buckes, I deserve a TIG welded header.... thats not what I got.... But the brullen system is even more expensive, and from what I hear the production methods are similer (and power gains), so I guess I made the right decision....

--Roy
For another opinion on Borla quality, check out he very first thread
in the Revolution Motorsports header thread.

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthr...threadid=77847


I don't want to get embroiled in a Borla vs. Brullen debate, but
keep in mind when comparing price, the Brullen includes the high
flow cat as well. Take the price (about $300?) off the Brullen price
to compare apples to apples!

FWIW, the local speed shop wants nearly $800 Cdn for the Borla
header, and with the group buy, I paid around $1000 for the
header and cat. In that respect, the Brullen with a cat is a better
deal.


Stu.

PS. Yes I own the brullen system, and that has some bearing on
my opinion, but I am not blind and will call a spade a spade.
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Old 02-06-2002, 10:19 AM   #22
booger
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yo...
my brullen headers are the s***
you dont have em, shut up
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Old 02-06-2002, 10:20 AM   #23
SubyRacer
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Quote:
Originally posted by BugBomb


If you "know" then you are wrong. If you go here you will see a post from Eric "Special K", who placed 2nd in the US nationals for STS class SCCA Pro Solo 2 in 2000, got his car dynoed at Altered Atmosphere here in Maryland. They reached a widely accepted drivetrain loss figure from testing of stock Imprezas on the same dyno. His car, with no internal modifications, dynoed consistently at or over 200 lb-ft, corrected numbers at the flywheel. Eric didn't even have a high-flow cat on the car.

so what your saying is this guy just has bolts ons and his car is dynoing more torque than cobbs fully bult up engine. riiiiighht. so then rather than cobbs cams and heads gaining 50hp on our cars they must mke our cars LOSE power . after all cobbs car has borla headers aswell, and his car is dynoing less torque than some dude with just bolt-ons. and what is this 'universally accepted drivetreinloss figure that has been made for imprezas.'? what ever it is, its crap. BECUZ YOU CANT CALCULATE DRIVELTRAINLOSS FROM AN AWD DYNO. awd dynos do not produce an accurate reading of what is being put to the ground, they should be used only as a guage to see if you got any gains on particualr mods, but they shouldnt be used to guess crank hp. awd dynos do not measure power the same way as 2 wheel dynos.
what was your drivetrainloss figure, ~33%? i HIGHLY doupt any awd impreza is losing any more than 21-22% drivetrainloss, and even that might be stretching it. awd does not suck as much power as poeple beileve. its a myth. maybe just a few more % than a 2wd car. if you want to get an accurate reading of what an impreza is putting to the wheels, lock up the center diff, converting it to rwd and put it on a 2 wheel dynojet.
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Old 02-06-2002, 12:07 PM   #24
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Subyracer, please realize that an engine is a SYSTEM. So on stock headers Cobb tunings warmed over EJ-25 might have only put out 190ft-lbs. It might have put out 210ft-lb, but you can't truely tell until you do some REAL testing, where you swap only one part at a time. Also after testign both configurations, you need to go back to the origional to tell if you are getting real results. This all takes ALOT of time and money.

It took me 4 hours of time to find out an intake I made, makes improvements all across most of the used RPM band. I also found out some other issues that cloud the results. Then you really need to do some number crunching and evaluation on the data to see if its worth while. In this case it was, but NOT from a straight line performance standpoint. Its slightly SLOWER in a straight line with the intake (.01 sec 1/4 mile ET), due to loost power through the very long 1st gear pull, but the top end HP boost means a shade better highway pull, and it made an extra 2mpg on the highway. I did have a peak HP gain of something like 6 or 7 HP because the stock airbox goes to hell at the exact same time the new intake hits its resonace RPM. So for 500-750 rpm, there is a big difference, but the PEAK power isn't far off, as the stock exaust kills peak power.

Places that make aftermarket parts on small budgets, CAN'T do a hell of alot of testing for every concivable variation, and the more indepth evaluation. More important few if any people would buy a "performance" part on facts like "Slower in a straight line" or "MORE MPG". They want **HP**. So they just do the easy bit, and toss on the part on a modified car they already have, do 2 or 3 dyno runs, and get the HP gain they need to put in the ads.
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Old 02-06-2002, 12:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRacer

so what your saying is this guy just has bolts ons and his car is dynoing more torque than cobbs fully bult up engine. riiiiighht.
If you looked at the post, you would see that the HP numbers were not outrageously high. That means the high torque is peaking low in the revs. Cobb's car is going for top-end power, where it is more difficult to get high torque gains, but easy to get high HP gains.

Quote:
Originally posted by SubyRacer

what was your drivetrainloss figure, ~33%?
If you had read the post, you would have seen that Eric used 1.33 as the conversion from wheel HP to flywheel HP. He used this because a stock impreza, on this very dyno, can convert it's numbers to stock flywheel numbers by multiplying 1.33. That is NOT a 33% loss. That is a 25% loss. 154 lb-ft is 75% of 206. Is that unacceptable to you? These are accepted drivetrain loss figures FOR THIS DYNO, because many people have proven the accuracy of the conversion by dynoing their stock Imprezas.

I find this completely acceptable data. You take numbers from a stock car and numbers from a modified one. It is not like we are comparing results from two different dynos. Even the VR-4 owners that use this dyno agree upon a very similar loss figure of ~23%. Either figure will still give you over 200 lb-ft on Eric's car.

If flywheel HP numbers are simply too much for you to work with, then I will re-state my previous comment.

Until I see a brullen-equipped, non-internally-modded RS making more than 150 lb-ft at the wheels on an AWD DynoJet, I will stick with the Borlas. This should not be unreasonable, since the brullens are built for low and mid-range power.
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