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Old 02-05-2008, 10:01 PM   #1
cueball89
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Cool My moderate na build

This is what i originally put up on rs25, but not everyone frequents both forums.



Im back in the game with another 2.5 motor that i picked up yesterday. It has 101000 miles on it and had bad head gaskets. Ive got the cams out and the heads off. I should be sending the cams out to delta tomorrow, have to call them in the morning. Im going to call a local machine shop and get a few quotes on getting the heads checked out and a port and polish.

Ive got some carbon build up on the heads and pistons. What is the best way to clean the pistons?

Should i look into changing the piston rings? I dont have any compression numbers, but was told it ran well. Everything ive seen from the motor seems to indicate that except the head gaskets. The cross hatching is still present. Minimal to no cam wear what so ever.

Replacement part wise i should just go with the oem subaru gasket kit, and new head bolts? Anybody have the part number for the head bolts? Has any body used an ebay gasket set? It would wind up saving me at least $100 if they hold up. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/99-03...spagenameZWDVW

EM wise is anybody running a greddy e manage? Ive got a pp6 but read that it doesnt support bigger injectors, id have to run my ej22 injectors. If i get the heads worked on i think i might be pushing the ej22 injectors?


Ive also got some pictures, everything looks ok to my noob eye....







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Old 02-05-2008, 11:41 PM   #2
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IMO I would do the rings...If your going to tighten the top, than you should also tighten the bottom
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:33 PM   #3
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+1 to the rings.. it would suck out loud if you had to do rings in 10k miles after all this nice work on the top and installing the motor. Id chk the bearings too. Id say if you wonder if you should replace something and you can afford to do it, its probably a good idea to do it in your situation. being that you have the motor out already and its super easy to work on. I do hear ya on the $ though. If you pull the bottom, run a hone through the cylinders. its easy, you can do it yourself and the hone costs a couple bucks.
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Old 02-07-2008, 09:23 AM   #4
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I personally wouldn't trust my local machine shop to PnP a set of Subaru heads for me. That's the job for a specialist. If you can't afford what it costs to have a real head builder work on your heads, just leave them unported...

That bottom end looks pretty nasty. I'm guessing things got pretty damned hot with the head gasket failure. I'd rebuild the bottom end completely or go get another one in better condition...
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:30 PM   #5
cueball89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
I personally wouldn't trust my local machine shop to PnP a set of Subaru heads for me. That's the job for a specialist. If you can't afford what it costs to have a real head builder work on your heads, just leave them unported...

That bottom end looks pretty nasty. I'm guessing things got pretty damned hot with the head gasket failure. I'd rebuild the bottom end completely or go get another one in better condition...

I think im straying away from the pnp and am going to get a valve job done, 3angles and a radius cut.


How can you tell the bottom end was hot? There was alot of oil from the head gasket failing but i barely found any coolant on the block and heads.
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Old 02-07-2008, 10:02 PM   #6
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the cylinders/pistons dont look too bad just dirty. IMO there is nothing to show that it was hot since you cant see anything below the pistons which is where the bottom end would fail if it were hot. ie, bearings, conn rod bushings, wrist pins
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:32 PM   #7
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Little bit of an update.

Im not going to do the rings, extra cost and what not. I think i should be ok.

As of now im waiting for my gasket set to arrive so i can drop off my heads with some new parts.

My headers are here and my cams are in the mail I should have them soon.


Any tips on how to get the old gasket off of the block? Ive already tried gasket remover, but the surface is still kind of rough. I dont really want to scrape it with anything either.
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Old 02-21-2008, 05:14 PM   #8
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Brake cleaner to soften the residue and careful application of a scraper. Scotchbrite and brake cleaner works pretty good too.

Jay Storm
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:10 PM   #9
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^^Thanks storm, ill give it a try.


Was a good day today!





My gasket kit shipped out ill have it monday and ill drop my heads off on tuesday.
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:11 PM   #10
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MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) or toulene will work good.. use good ventilation with either.. they can mess you up quick. a plastic scraper for the bigger stuff (i sharpen mine with a file) and a rozor blade to scrape off the small stuff. then polish it with scotchbrite/MEK or toulene and it should be nice and clean. you should be able to get both MEK and toulene @ lowes/home depot in the cleaner/paint sections.
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:12 PM   #11
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yay, cams!
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:17 PM   #12
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What Cat is that?
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:33 PM   #13
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RaceFaceXC: Scotchbrite and a plastic scraper, got it. Id hate to have to do a repeat hg job.

ZRS: Its just a resonator, its an obx header with the cat delete section.
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Old 02-22-2008, 04:39 AM   #14
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where'd u get the cams? what lift are they?
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Old 02-22-2008, 10:58 AM   #15
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As far as not doing the rings, I would be a little concerned. Knowing that it "ran well" and "looks good" is fine if your goal was just to have a running reliable vehicle. However performance is your goal and knowing how much you need to fight to get 5-10hp on a NA build, I would hate to leave power on the table by starting on a block that is not making full oem horsepower due to low compression. The cost and effort of doing the rings now is going to be sooo much less than going back to it when you are disappointed on the dyno.
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Old 02-22-2008, 11:38 AM   #16
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The cams are from delta, they are the 2000 grind. I dont have any specs on them. They should make peak power around 6800-7000rpm.


As far as piston rings go ive read the procedure to pull the pistons, but whats the procedure on the rings? How would i size them exactly? I know ive got 2 A pistons and 2 B pistons. Would i just use oem size rings and hone out the block?

Sounds like i need to make a post in the built motor section.
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Old 02-22-2008, 01:55 PM   #17
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I wish I could give you more specifics, but I've never gotten that intimate with my subaru's motor guts. Maybe the guys on the built motor board can give you an accurate way of evaluating the rings or perhaps the recommendation is to replace while you can. The bottom line is the importance of starting with a good foundation.
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Old 03-01-2008, 11:53 PM   #18
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PM me I will give you the specs on the cam, should have had a spec sheet in there but sometimes gets overlooked by shipping staff.
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:03 PM   #19
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Doing the bottom half from where you are now is only going to run you another $250 if you shop right. A pistons and B pistons are only slightly different sizes. The same piston rings fit on both. When I did my heads, I went a head and just put new rings and bearing in. I discovered that my main and rod bearing had a bunch of scoring. Hardest part is making sure you have some Fuji Bond to reseal the engine block halves. Can get this from you local Subaru dealer.

Do you plan on changing out the water pump, timing belt, timing belt tensioner, timing belt idlers? Very good items to do while your in there.
Make sure you check your oil pump size. when I did my 2.5l, it had a 7mm oil pump on it, probably what caused my bearing scoring.
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Old 03-22-2008, 10:53 AM   #20
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The engine is in and running. Ill get to some more details later. Here are some pictures of the heads.



That took longer than expected, but i got the heads back.
Ill let the pictures do the talking.






:clap:


He touched up the exhaust ports a little as subaru left a lip there. But other than that no porting or polishing.

Angle wise i got:
Exhaust 70,60,45,30 and a 90 radius cut
Intake 70,45,30, and a 90 radius cut.

Im hopeing to put the cams back in the heads tonight. Then finish putting everything together on Wednesday, so i can swap engines this weekend.




After a swapping the car and it not starting i discovered that you had to swap the crank and cam pickups. I wish i had know that early. Here is the initial driving impression.

Ive got no idle problems what so ever. It idles so smooth im alittle disappointed. My speedo moves with a renewed determination. This thing hauls for being na. The car hits 100mph no problem now. It just flies up there. Im being pinned in my seat at 5k rpm. Throughout the whole rev range you are being pushed back into your seat. Its not that Ive driven really slow cars my whole life. My dad has a stg 2 wrx that I drive regularly. My car isnt turbo fast but its definatly got something.
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:20 PM   #21
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Good god those heads are clean..... Sounds like you're pretty happy with it. ENJOY!!!!

Jay Storm
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Old 03-23-2008, 09:07 AM   #22
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dead sexy pics
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Old 03-23-2008, 12:50 PM   #23
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Those are sexy sexy heads indeed.
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:37 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cueball89 View Post
^^Thanks storm, ill give it a try.


Was a good day today!





My gasket kit shipped out ill have it monday and ill drop my heads off on tuesday.
Delta is like 15mins from my house..How did you like their cams?
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Old 03-23-2008, 08:28 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrxwagon253 View Post
Delta is like 15mins from my house..How did you like their cams?

They are the cheapest thing out there cam wise. I got the 2000 grind, but i dont have any of the idle problems. Ive rear alot of people have idle problems with the 2000 grind. There's a huge thread on rs25.com about delta cams. I think over 30 people have deltas now. They would be able to give you more long term opinions. Going down the highway im barely on the gas cruising at 74,75. I think im going to get get very good mileage, but idk yet.



I hooked up the laptop to my pp6, and im lucky i have an engine left. I hit 5500 rpm and my afr ratio shot up to 16 or 17:1. Im only tuning off of the stock o2 sensor, so its probably not dead on, but its still deadly lean. I have had to add a **** load of fuel so far. Im into the plus 4 range and it barely made a dent. I figure i've got a **** load of power left on the table. Ive got some more tuning to do tonight, so hopefully ill pick up some more power. I think ill try and shoot for an afr in the mid to high 12's. Id rather be rich than lean. I think that should be a good cushion of safety for tuning off of the stock o2 sensor.
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