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Old 02-07-2008, 07:51 PM   #1
TedMeyer
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Default UOA w/ Redline 5w40 on stage 4 2.0L

I thought I'd post up a UOA from my 02 WRX (wasn't sure if here or maintenance would be better). There are two samples from the same oil, the first one came after ~250 track miles plus highway miles to/from the track (sampled 10/27/07 at ~55,300 miles), and the second sample came Jan. 26 at 57,800 miles (so temps ranged from tracking in the 80s to blizzard-crawling below zero for this oil change) -- that includes another trackday. The car was stage 2 until 52K miles (w/ an ebay TMIC somewhere along the line) when I installed a TC.com 18G, 680cc injectors, p&p&c UP and stock exhaust mani & Injen x-pipe -- it's making 270'ish awhp at 18psi (XX Tuning).

In the writeups from Blackstone (see below) they pointed to the lead as a potential sign of premature engine wear, but one BITOG poster suggested that might not be the case w/ Redline oil (I'm gonna send my UOA to Redline for comment, too). I'm still searching around for other Redline UOAs for comparison, but thought I'd post it here for any comments as well. I was at least real happy with how the viscosity held up, which was my main concern after reading the many spun-bearing threads.

BITOG linky here:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1081183

(note values are for the samples at 1380 mi / 3880 mi)

ALUMINUM 2 / 3
CHROMIUM 0 / 1
IRON 5 / 8
COPPER 2 / 2
LEAD 9 / 13
TIN 1 / 1
MOLYBDENUM 587 / 574
NICKEL 0 / 1
MANGANESE 0 / 0
SILVER 0 / 0
TITANIUM 0 / 0
POTASSIUM 3 / 2
BORON 18 / 17
SILICON 14 / 15
SODIUM 23 / 25
CALCIUM 2579 / 2549
MAGNESIUM 7 / 7
PHOSPHORUS 1266 / 1235
ZINC 1471 / 1391
BARIUM 0 / 0
Viscosity was 71.6/71.5
Insolubles were 0.2/0.3.
SuS viscosity 13.38 / 13.34
Flash 420 / 430
Fuel <.5 / <.5
Water&Antifreeze both 0 / 0


FROM BLACKSTONE LABS WRITEUP:
Little did I know the next sample up for analysis was your next sample. Nothing has changed much
from the first sample even though you've run the oil about 2,500 miles longer. The lead should not have
increased since it isn't a metal that tends to track higher with longer oil use runs. Iron does and you can
see it moved up a little. Lead is still the problem. Try another type oil to see if you can get it lower. It is not
an immediate problem but it does suggest the engine won't go the distance you hope it will. All other tests
on this oil read normally.
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Old 02-08-2008, 05:17 PM   #2
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I spoke to Dave at Redline and asked some questions -- he said these Pb levels were far from anything to worry about. He attributed it to oxidation on the bearing surface in reaction to the additives, and said the quantities were too minute to have any appreciable impact on bearing longevity. He suggested levels closer to 100 would be indicative of a problem. I'm summarizing, but after the chat I feel comfortable continuing to run Redline -- especially given how well it held up.

Last edited by TedMeyer; 02-13-2008 at 04:34 PM.
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Old 02-09-2008, 12:11 PM   #3
Steve Nastoff
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I had a similar experience with Redline 10-40 that I dumped out of one of my Supra's.
Sent the sample to Blackstone and received a similar report from them. I researched as you have and I continue to run Redline in 2 Supra's and my WRX. All heavily modified.
Additionally I have never seen cleaner internal engine components when torn down than those that had been run with Redline oils.
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Old 02-14-2008, 12:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Nastoff View Post
Additionally I have never seen cleaner internal engine components when torn down than those that had been run with Redline oils.
That's what I keep reading on bobistheoilguy. I run German Castrol but I get high fuel dilution (thus high iron) due to my short daily trips of 5 miles. The oil holds up fine though. Ted's uoa is great considering the mods (especially flash and fuel).

I might try Amsoil, Redline or this blend of soy, corn, canola, sunflower oils.

Ted, you should post these in the Service & Maint. forums in the future. You might get more feedback.

Also, be more creative with your subject. Don't make it look like it contains facts. Look at the number of views on your thread vs. "How to avoid a spun bearing".

Funny thing is, this thread actually contains the BEST information on how to avoid a spun bearing. Shear stable 5W40 made from ester base stocks and a tune by XX.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 02-14-2008 at 12:32 PM.
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:04 AM   #5
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Any reason to run 5w40?? I'm planning on using 10w30 next change (redline).
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Old 02-15-2008, 07:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fengrr View Post
Any reason to run 5w40?? I'm planning on using 10w30 next change (redline).
5w40 is a perfect weight oil for a modified and hard driven WRX.
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Old 02-15-2008, 11:26 AM   #7
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10W30 would probably be ok with Redline, but a used oil analysis is a good way to find out. It depends on your specific application (mods, driving style, air temps, etc).

-Dennis
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Old 02-17-2008, 02:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Also, be more creative with your subject. Don't make it look like it contains facts. Look at the number of views on your thread vs. "How to avoid a spun bearing".

Funny thing is, this thread actually contains the BEST information on how to avoid a spun bearing. Shear stable 5W40 made from ester base stocks and a tune by XX.

-Dennis
I'm gonna go to the Members Car Gallery to update my posting skills. I will not return until I learn to sensationalize.

To the other poster's point, I run diff oils at diff times of year -- I've got Pennzoil 5w30 in now, will switch to GC for the spring, then back to Redline 5w40 for trackday season. But to be honest, given how the redline is holding up in the UOAs, I could probably just run Redline 5w40 year-round and change it 10K miles (1/year). But I won't....
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Old 02-17-2008, 08:48 AM   #9
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Did you add any make-up oil?

-Dennis
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Old 02-17-2008, 05:39 PM   #10
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I've never had much oil consumption, so the only make-up oil was really just to replace the first sample I took.
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Old 02-18-2008, 05:45 PM   #11
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You're saying you could use Redline 5w40 all year round?? Is it a good weight for the cold AND hot months??
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:43 AM   #12
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It's a 5w40, so it should flow very well at cold temps (better than a 10w30, in theory). But given the weather in New England, I just switched to a 5w30 for the remainder of winter, as I won't be taxing the engine that much (the oil heats faster, better mileage, etc). But in those two samples reported above, the first was on an 85-degree day, the second was after a stretch of below-zero weather (all w/ the same oil). The oil seemed to work fine in both conditions, and the second UOA showed no issues.
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Old 02-20-2008, 11:59 AM   #13
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Lightbulb

Go to Redline and compare the cold cranking viscosity and pour points.

http://www.redlineoil.com/pdf/4.pdf


-Dennis
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Old 02-25-2008, 06:33 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedMeyer View Post
It's a 5w40, so it should flow very well at cold temps (better than a 10w30, in theory). But given the weather in New England, I just switched to a 5w30 for the remainder of winter, as I won't be taxing the engine that much (the oil heats faster, better mileage, etc). But in those two samples reported above, the first was on an 85-degree day, the second was after a stretch of below-zero weather (all w/ the same oil). The oil seemed to work fine in both conditions, and the second UOA showed no issues.
Have you really seen a gas mileage difference simply because of your oil?
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Old 02-25-2008, 02:58 PM   #15
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Absolutely, ~1 mpg typically or MAYBE 2 mpg in extreme cases, depending on the type of driving and weather. That's the idea behind the "energy conserving" oils... better mileage. They seem to sacrifice long-run protection, though, so I'd rather pay a slight mileage penalty.
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Old 02-25-2008, 05:39 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TedMeyer View Post
I'm gonna go to the Members Car Gallery to update my posting skills. I will not return until I learn to sensationalize.

To the other poster's point, I run diff oils at diff times of year -- I've got Pennzoil 5w30 in now, will switch to GC for the spring, then back to Redline 5w40 for trackday season. But to be honest, given how the redline is holding up in the UOAs, I could probably just run Redline 5w40 year-round and change it 10K miles (1/year). But I won't....
Do you not feel comfortable running GC all year long? From what I've heard (haven't used GC yet), it holds up well in a wide range of conditions.

good thread btw.
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Old 02-26-2008, 02:43 PM   #17
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I'd feel totally comfortable using GC (or even Redline 5w40 for that matter) year-round. I'm just trying to save a couple bucks by running some thinner, less-expensive oil (Pennzoil Plat 5w30) when I know I won't be running the engine very hard.
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:29 AM   #18
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http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1782091_n.jpg


Another UOA on here (actually a few more since the last one I posted). From L to R are changes using German Castrol 0w30, dino Castrol 10w40 (EngineRX rinse phase), Pennzoil synth (EngineRX cleanse phase), and then the samples described above.

Here's the linky for the discussion on BITOG:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...06#Post1509978

Ted
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Old 06-25-2009, 12:42 PM   #19
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Viscosity higher than normal for a 30 grade. I guess they've been seeing way too many M1 and RP xW-30 uoa's.

Looks great, but there's only 4k on the oil. Actually, that's nearly double of some uoa's I've seen lately. And those uoa's were worse!



-Dennis
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Old 06-25-2009, 03:02 PM   #20
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just an observation

this thread is a perfect example of those that know something and those that do not know anything about motor oil
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:27 AM   #21
TedMeyer
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Default Motul 8100 X-Cess Oil Results

I figured I'd top up this thread with some additional results from my most recent Used Oil Analyses. The BITOG thread is here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...80#Post2992480

But here's the Cliff Notes version:
1) Motul 8100 X-Cess works well... shrugged off 9000+ miles in brutal desert heat and doesn't show the weird lead (Pb) results that Redline does.
2) K&N air filters don't cut it in the desert. The Si count really sky-rocketed once I moved to AZ. Back to paper filters for me.
3) GC (German Castrol) may still be the best bet of all for the money. I like the Motul better than the GC, but Motul is pricier.

Also note: the earlier oil changes were Redline 5w40 (the ones with super-high moly counts) and GC....


Last edited by TedMeyer; 05-15-2013 at 02:28 AM. Reason: world peace
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Old 05-15-2013, 08:26 AM   #22
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GC is very good, but not sure I would push it as far as you did the X-cess. Get a TBN next time.

-Dennis
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Old 05-15-2013, 11:21 AM   #23
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It's interesting to see you had elevated lead with Redline, but normal copper. My car showed the opposite, high copper, low lead.

I'll echo Dennis' comments, get a TBN next time, 9k is pretty long on a turbo Subie. It could be fine, but heavy footed driving or short trips will kill just about anything by 9k in our cars.

GC is fine oil, but I'm not sure it's such a great value these days. It's cheap when on sale, but some Walmarts are now carrying M1 0w40 in the 5qt jug for $25 and there's always forum favorite RT6 at a similar price. All of the above blow away Motul and Redline from a value perspective though.

Oh, and thanks for continually sharing your UOAs.
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Old 05-15-2013, 02:31 PM   #24
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Yeah, I was not intending to go 9,000 miles without a change. Too much travel and crap going on in my life since I moved to AZ... I think I mentally blocked it out in favor of mountain bike riding. That, or I just didn't want to crawl under a hot car with its 120 outside. I actually just changed my plugs after realizing I had 40,000 miles on my copper NGKs (!!!). The gap had grown to almost 38, though the color looked OK (a shade lighter than biscuit brown).

I would expect to migrate back to ~5,000 mi/change (and try a TBN next time... I've got Motul 8100 in there again).

Ted
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Old 05-15-2013, 04:15 PM   #25
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I hear you. I had the same problem at the end of last year in my car. I went 7.5k on Redline and it was a bit too far.
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