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Old 02-06-2002, 01:34 PM   #1
twlai
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Question Where to get metal hubcentric ring for rota subzero?

Does anyone know where I can get metal hubcentric ring for
the rota subzero?
I got the ring from revolution, but it is made of plastic!
The way I understand it, the 5 bolts are for locking the
wheel in, and not for supporting the weight of the car.
Therefore, hubcentric ring is need if the rim is not built specific
for the car. After reading all of posts discussion on hubcentric
ring, it maybe okay for normal day to day driving without
hubcentric ring, but it is much safer if you want to go to autox
or the track.

I tried tirerack and discount tires and they don't carry it.

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Old 02-06-2002, 02:50 PM   #2
skidplatez
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Plastic works fine that's why they sent it to you. The ring is only used to locate the wheel during installation.
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Old 02-06-2002, 03:02 PM   #3
twlai
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That's not true. The ring is there to support the weight of the
car. On the stock rim, the dimension is perfect, the inside of the rim will sit on top of the circular metal in front of the rotor. The is
NO pressure go down on the 5 screws. All the weight of the car
is press on the rim only.

Without the hubcentric ring, imagine you hit a BIG pot hole,
all the force will be absorb by the 5 screws. This is not safe.
It is a common and wrong assumption about the usage of
hubcentric ring. It is not to use to center the wheel, but to
support the weight of the car.
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Old 02-06-2002, 03:16 PM   #4
mitch808
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twlai

In your first post you say:
Quote:

The way I understand it, the 5 bolts are for locking the
wheel in, and not for supporting the weight of the car.


Then in your second you are saying that you are your sure. Make up your mind?

But no, they are only used to center the rim and not support the rim. Even the metal rings are made of very soft metal, not at all strong enough to handle the loads applied by a vehicle. The lugnuts are tightened down enough with 5 studs to excert a tremendous amount of force to keep the rim on the hub. I've drivin my car for about 700 miles from typical pothole styled streets to sprints of 90-100MPH for 50 miles straight and no problems whatsoever with my subzero's.


You know there is one thing about the i-club, It's the community. We are very different from other car enthusiasts. We are almost like an Apple/Mac cult(computer affeciandos will know what I'm talking about) But our opinions can get very strong at times and can be hard when trying to understand a problem. Vendors offer their advice, but can get regularly shot down. These are the people that sell these products day in and day out, and yet we contradict them in their recommendations to us. I remember Revolution Motorsports saying you don't need hubcentric rings, but he went ahead and made it available for us. Cause we kept bitching that we needed them.
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Old 02-06-2002, 03:27 PM   #5
WRXAngell
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Twlai,

The hubcentric rings do not support the weight of the car. Neither does the raised shoulder that you are trying to match to. The rings simple center the wheel to the hub so that you have less/none of the out-of-balance vibration. The studs and lug nuts support the weight of the car.

Just my $0.02.
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Old 02-06-2002, 03:54 PM   #6
mitch808
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Here is an interesting thread, not about the rings but about lugnuts. Something to ponder while on the toilet....

CLICK ME
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Old 02-06-2002, 04:59 PM   #7
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from: http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/centerb.htm

Quote:
The centerbore of a wheel is the size of the machined hole on the back of the wheel that centers the wheel properly on the hub of the car. This hole is machined to exactly match the hub so the wheels are precisely positioned, minimizing the chance of a vibration. With a hubcentric wheel, the lug hardware will not be supporting the weight of the vehicle, all they really do is press the wheel against the hub of the car. Some wheels use high quality, forged centering rings that lock into place in the back of the wheel. This is acceptable alternative.

If you have non-hubcentric (lugcentric) wheels, they should be torqued correctly while the vehicle is still off of the ground so they center properly. The weight of the vehicle can push the wheel off-center slightly while you're tightening them down if left on the ground.
from : http://www.europeancarweb.com/wheels/wheels01_01.shtml

Quote:
Centering
The other element that affects directly whether a wheel can be bolted onto a car is hubcentricity. Long ago, in the deep mists of time, wheels were located by the taper of the lug nuts or bolts. This could lead to all sorts of problems, but they can be summarized by saying centering was liable to be less than perfect, and the sheer stress on wheel bolts or studs could be enormous. I am not aware of any passenger car wheels now made that are not hubcentric. Hubcentric wheels have a hole at their center that fits closely over a round feature on the hub, serving to center the wheel on the axis of the spindle, as well as bear the vertical weight of the vehicle. The wheel bolts or studs then serve simply to hold the wheel onto the hub, and are loaded only in tension, where they are strong. If the studs were required to absorb vertical forces, they would be loaded in single shear, the weakest arrangement for any fastener. Factory wheels are all machined to fit their specific application exactly, and some of the better aftermarket wheels are, too. However, many aftermarket wheels rely on centering rings. This means that, instead of machining wheels specifically for each O.E. centering hole diameter, the wheel manufacturer machines all wheels to one size, and then uses inserts to give a centering surface of the diameter required for each application. This is obviously easier to do, and makes inventorying a complete wheel line much simpler and less costly. If you buy wheels that use centering rings, be sure the rings fit snugly in the wheels. If they are loose enough to fall out, how accurately can they be locating your wheel? Some tire shops automatically remove centering rings to balance a wheel, just to make sure there is no slop to make their balancing inaccurate.

The fact that a wheel physically bolts onto a car doesn't necessarily mean it "fits." The centering surface could be too large, in which case there essentially is no centering. Just as importantly, the offset could be wrong.
from: http://www.ronalusa.com/choose.html

Quote:
"Hubcentric" is another term that is often not mentioned or is misunderstood. A hubcentric wheel is a wheel designed with a centerbore opening to match the exact diameter of the hub of a specific vehicle. The importance is that the weight bearing of the wheel, in reference to the vehicle, is accomplished by the hub and centerbore mating to an exact fit. The lug nuts/bolts' only purpose is to affix the wheel to the mounting surface, not to bear the weight of the vehicle. Often wheels that are not hubcentric create driveability problems--shimmy, vibration, and erratic tracking. Many quality manufacturers design their wheels to be versatile by providing hubcentric centering rings that snap into place inside the wheel, to make the wheel hubcentric. This is an important safety issue--hubcentricity is highly recommended.
Anyone still not a believer?
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Old 02-06-2002, 05:40 PM   #8
Dolphin Overton
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So the question was where to get good metal hubcentric rings. Anybody wanna give an answer? I would like to know also.
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Old 02-06-2002, 10:57 PM   #9
twlai
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Thank you, Zahnster. Excellent post!
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Old 02-07-2002, 02:06 AM   #10
mitch808
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Quote:
Originally posted by Zahnster
from: http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/centerb.htm



Anyone still not a believer?

Well the first quote contridicts the other two. It is not conclusive at all. Interesting read though

1st
Quote:
If you have non-hubcentric (lugcentric) wheels, they should be torqued correctly while the vehicle is still off of the ground so they center properly.
2nd
Quote:
The fact that a wheel physically bolts onto a car doesn't necessarily mean it "fits." The centering surface could be too large, in which case there essentially is no centering.
3rd
Quote:
This is an important safety issue--hubcentricity is highly recommended.
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Old 02-07-2002, 03:50 AM   #11
rota wheels wrx
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I put some interesting comments on another thread regarding wheel hubcentricity.

Anyway, regarding metal rings. We are sourcing right now from Japan and expect it in a month or so.
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Old 02-07-2002, 12:05 PM   #12
twlai
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Thanks, rota wheel wrx. Any idea about how much it will cost?

mitch808, without the hubcentric ring, the bolts of the car
and the metals around the holes of the rims has to support
the weight of the car. And I think it is a lot safer for the
centerbore of the rim and the hub of the car to support the
weight.
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Old 02-07-2002, 03:00 PM   #13
sorny
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I installed my Rota Subzero's today. I love the rim! But I had a little problem with the little plastic hub rings I got from Discount Tire. They were 57.1 - 67. Shouldn't it be 57.1 - 67.1 (notice the .1 on 67.)? Just wondering because when I installed the rims with them installed on the back, the bastards broke! Yeah, when I tightened the lugs (not even a lot, 20 ft/lbs or less) they broke! I took the rim off and examined it, the edges of the plastic just crumbled. It did it on two of them before I just gave up and tried centering the rim myself while it was still in the air. I just went for a test run and, of course, starting about 45mph it starts vibrating the steering wheel about 3-4mm in each direction until about 60mph when it seems to ease up (maybe I was just getting used to it). It really didn't move my hands back and forth 3-4mm each way, because they were absorbing the vibration, I took my hands off the wheel for a split second on straightaways. It's not real bothersome, but just makes me afraid to go ultra fast or take turns really hard. I didn't get to go over 60mph (darn speed limits) so I don't know if it would've gotten worse or better.

I'm sure my centering job wasn't the greatest, but I tired to keep the rim from resting on the bolts that the lugs screw onto. I'm worried about the shaking, not so much the 'safety' issues that everyone is talking about. If there was a metal one that would not "explode" under 20 ft/lbs of force then I'd be happy to buy a set.
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Old 02-07-2002, 03:42 PM   #14
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Okay, just called Discount Tire on a whim. The guy I talked to was extremely nice and said he'd ship me out another set of rings (no charge). He said that my problem could have been that even though the ring was on the back of the wheel fairly tight, when I was putting the lugs on I could have let it slip off or get turned sideways, thus crushing it when I tighened the lugs. I may get the two of my remaining unbroken rings for now and see if I can put them on without them breaking if I'm more careful. He also mentioned something about holding the wheel in the center while attaching the lugnuts so it won't move around and break the plastic again. I'm really lazy though and just hate jacking the car up and taking wheels off and all that .. *sigh*
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Old 02-07-2002, 11:11 PM   #15
CDTOYS
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Quote:
"But I had a little problem with the little plastic hub rings I got from Discount Tire. They were 57.1 - 67. Shouldn't it be 57.1 - 67.1 (notice the .1 on 67.)? "
The rings should be 56.1 I.D. and 67 on the O.D. If they sent you 57.1 rings, they were not
correct.
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Old 02-08-2002, 09:15 AM   #16
sorny
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Quote:
Originally posted by CDTOYS


The rings should be 56.1 I.D. and 67 on the O.D. If they sent you 57.1 rings, they were not
correct.
Sorry, was kinda tired, they were 56.1 and 67.
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