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Old 02-10-2008, 01:36 PM   #1
bucket7788
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Default Tuning Boost after GM BCS install

Installed my GM BCS last Wednesday. I'm absolutely loving it. The TD04 is working pretty well now. I could only get boost into the 15ish range with the OEM BCS. 17.5psi looks easily attainable with the GM BCS. In fact, I think it can go much higher.

Anyway, this thread is about the tuning the boost maps with RomRaider. It has been a bit of a struggle, but I'm getting close now. I hope that someone will benefit from my experience.

The tables in the tune that I've changed...

-Target Boost (duh)
-Max WGDC
-Boost Compensation (Atmosphere)
-Wastegate Compensation (Atmospheric)
-Wastegate Compensation (Intake Temp)
-Turbo Dynamics (Continuous)

Target Boost
-Initially, I just set mine for my new desired target...17.5psi. If I were to do it all over again, I would go about .5 psi below the value that you will ultimately use at first. I got some pretty big spikes my first time out.

Max WGDC
-I did a lot of reading on this prior to arriving at 70% of my STG 2 tune (decrease WGDC by 30 %). The problem was that most of what I found was from UTEC users, so didn't apply. I saw a few posts that said 70%, so I went with that. It wasn't enough. I assume that I was in the same boat as most STG 2 guys in that my Max WGDC in the 100% column were in the 90's due to the factory BCS being unable to achieve what I wanted. I would recommend 58-60% as a starting point for Max WGDC. Anyway, after the wild boost spikes, I lowered WGDC to 55%. I got about 15psi with that. From there, I worked WGDC up by a couple of percent at at time then went out to log.

Boost Compensation (Atmosphere)
-I read some posts on RomRaider regarding GM BCS that recommended changing this table's values as well. I am no authority on this table, but it seems like this table subtracts the table's value directly from Target Boost. I live in PA. Changes in elevation can drop atmospheric pressure substantially. I chose to 0 out the 13.46 column after looking at what I found yesterday when I turned the logger on. Patm was only 13.8. Where I live is only at 1500 ft above sea level, but I never imagined that it could be that low here. There was probably a low pressure system moving through.

Wastegate Compensation (Atmospheric)
-I agonized over this table quite a bit. I may be dead wrong. But it seems as if this table works opposite to what Boost Compensation (Atmosphere) does. It is set to raise WGDC by a percentage to compensate for lower atmospheric pressures. I believe that this table was a major factor in my spiking. It was set to raise WGDC 18% (relative). That's a lot. I reduced the 13.46 column value to 2.3%. Just for reference 18% of 60 = 10.8. Much too much in my opinion. I do not know if this table actually increases WGDC over what's in the Max WGDC table or not, but if it does, it would put me over 70% WGDC. Since I reduced that one value, my boost has been much more stable. Those of you at any altitude should give this table a very hard look.

Wastegate Compensation (Intake Temp)
-This table reduced WGDC by a percentage for decreasing temperatures. I agonized over this one quite a bit too. Initially I reduced all of the values by 30%. I'm thinking that I may go to 40%. We'll see.

Turbo Dynamics (Continuous)
-This table adds or subtracts WGDC for differing values of Boost Error. Values that are too large WILL cause over/under shoots in boost. Small changes will yield large results. Be careful!
Boost Error = Target Boost - Actual Boost.
Positive Boost Error is when actual boost is below target boost.
Negative Boost Error is when actual boost is above target boost (Overshoot).
The Turbo Dynamics (Continuous) table is the more important of the two Turbo Dynamics Table for normal boost tuning. The "Burst" table does not come into play except for when boost very rapidly changes, and then only briefly. It is very important to log TD Continuous while tuning boost!
Anyway, I goofed around with this table a lot. I am still working on it, but I'm using smaller values for the center columns than I had previously.

Here is my current Turbo Dynamics (Continuous) table. I'm sure that I will be changing it in the near future.
Code:
-3.48	-1.20	-0.65	-0.20	0.00	0.25	0.65	1.60	3.20
Finally, I feel that the following are the minimum that should be logged when tuning boost.
-Timing and corrections
-RPM
-Throttle
-WGDC
-Boost
-Target Boost
-Boost Error
-Turbo Dynamics (Continuous)
-Load
-MAF (g/s)
-Injector Duty Cycles

I discovered that I'm maxing out my injectors at around 5500 RPM and that I had a little knock because I'm now in higher load cells than I've ever been in before.

Useful Threads:
Freon's Install Thread
Merchgod's Turbo Dynamics and Boost Control Explained
RomRaider GM BCS Thread


There you have it. I'm not 100% on my understanding of all of the tables, but hope that those that know more than I will chime in and correct me. I will edit the above as necessary to make it accurate.
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Last edited by bucket7788; 03-10-2008 at 11:16 AM. Reason: Factual Correction
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Old 02-10-2008, 01:36 PM   #2
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3rd Gear. Max WGDC = 62%

Code:
Time Boost Error  Load	RPM Total Timing IDC	Boost	MAF     WGDC Targ Boost Throttle TD Cont MPH	Patm	IAT
328	16.47	1.04	2184	21.5	14.31	0.58	39.07	27.06	16.44	100	3	31	14.07	37
672	15.39	1.16	2289	20	16.31	2.03	43.47	41.96	16.86	100	3	30	14.07	37
1031	13.63	1.3	2367	16.5	19.24	3.77	50.01	55.29	16.98	100	3	30	14.07	37
1375	11.87	1.48	2465	13	22.54	5.51	58.88	56.08	17.07	100	3	30	14.07	37
1719	9.78	1.67	2594	11.5	27.21	7.98	70.45	56.47	17.15	100	3	30	14.07	37
2063	7.08	1.93	2738	11.5	34.3	10.74	84.3	56.47	17.15	100	3	32	14.07	37
2406	3.33	2.24	2893	10.5	45.18	13.93	100.87	57.25	17.23	100	3	34	14.07	37
2735	1.01	2.41	3010	10.5	50.37	16.69	112.87	57.25	17.27	100	0.86	36	14.07	36
3078	1.06	2.37	3291	11	52.24	16.83	121.07	57.65	17.33	100	0.91	36	14.07	36
3438	0.97	2.45	3451	11.5	56.16	16.98	132.45	57.65	17.36	100	0.66	39	13.93	36
3797	0.41	2.52	3655	12.5	61.31	17.85	144.24	57.65	17.36	100	0.33	42	13.93	36
4125	0.48	2.57	3824	14	66.79	17.7	153.61	57.65	17.36	100	0.4	45	13.93	36
4469	0.81	2.52	4019	15.5	67.96	17.41	160.65	57.65	17.4	100	0.68	45	13.93	36
4828	1.45	2.47	4225	16	71.16	16.83	166.96	57.65	17.4	100	1.14	48	13.93	36
5172	1.24	2.5	4373	16.5	76.06	16.83	176.23	57.65	17.36	100	1.04	52	13.93	36
5516	1.3	2.53	4570	17.5	80.76	16.83	185.38	57.65	17.36	100	1.14	52	13.93	36
5844	1.16	2.49	4762	18	82.87	16.98	194.72	57.65	17.36	100	1	56	13.93	36
6188	1.43	2.46	4898	18.5	84.31	16.69	194.72	57.65	17.4	100	1.3	60	13.93	36
6531	1.51	2.48	5081	19	87.71	16.69	203.02	57.65	17.4	100	1.32	63	13.93	36
6875	1.82	2.5	5267	19	91.18	16.4	213.45	57.25	17.4	100	1.64	63	13.93	36
7219	2.3	2.44	5364	19	93.26	15.82	216.27	57.25	17.4	100	2.27	66	13.93	36
7563	2.69	2.41	5514	20	93.71	15.53	217.47	57.25	17.36	100	2.7	69	13.93	36
7906	3.19	2.35	5647	21	95.02	15.24	217.88	57.25	17.4	100	3	69	13.93	36
8235	3.44	2.32	5796	21.5	93.97	14.65	216.67	57.25	17.36	100	3	72	13.93	36
8578	3.67	2.29	5846	22	96.44	14.51	222.74	57.25	17.4	100	3	75	13.93	36
8938	3.81	2.25	5938	22.5	96.02	14.36	221.91	57.25	17.4	100	3	78	13.93	36
9266	4.18	2.23	6058	23.5	95.61	13.93	221.11	56.08	17.35	100	3	78	13.93	36
9594	3.71	2.2	6152	23.5	95.64	13.78	221.51	55.69	16.78	100	3	80	13.93	36
9938	3.48	2.14	6271	25.5	95.81	13.49	221.11	55.29	16.24	100	3	82	13.93	36

Last edited by bucket7788; 02-10-2008 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Adding Log
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Old 02-10-2008, 02:07 PM   #3
Tea cups
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the wg compensation tables impact the max wg duty for your version of boost control, to determine the actual max wg duty. Max wg duty (post-compensation) will always be the max wg duty, period. TD cont does not alllow wg duty to go above max - it is the absolute wgdc to add to the current wgdc based on boost error up to, but never exceeding max wg duty (post-compensation).
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Old 02-10-2008, 02:10 PM   #4
bucket7788
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Thanks.

Changing now.
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Old 02-10-2008, 03:45 PM   #5
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Tea cups, please let me know if the following are accurate statements.

As you told me before, the maximum WGDC the ECU can call for is that in the Max WGDC table, so....

The WGDC that the ECU calls for is:
Actual WGDC = Max WGDC - WG Comp(temp) + WG Comp(atm) +/- Turbo Dynamics. (up to Max WGDC)

Where the value for WG Comp(temp and atm) are both a percentage of Max WGDC.

Turbo Dynamics values are both direct values added or subtracted from WGDC.

Buck
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Old 02-10-2008, 03:53 PM   #6
Tea cups
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucket7788 View Post
Actual WGDC = Max WGDC - WG Comp(temp) + WG Comp(atm) +/- Turbo Dynamics. (up to Max WGDC)
No,
x = current WGDC + TD cont correction (absolute) + TD burst correction (absolute)
y = max wgdc map value + all WG compensations (relative correction)

if x > y then z = y else z = x
z= actual wgdc (applied)

Your version of boost control does not have an initial value as other ECUs do.
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Old 02-10-2008, 05:40 PM   #7
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Good write up.

I've found that the GMBCS does not need as much IAT compensation as well. In addition to decreasing the IAT comps, you may find that you need to "flatten" the map as well.

As you've noticed, this same logic will also be true for many of the Turbo Dynamics tables (TD cont, burst, positive and negative).

About 60% WGDC seems to be the sweet spot for almost all of the GMBCS's I've tuned. If you get agressive up to 18-19 PSI, you may need to increase to 65-70, but for those mild boost targets, you're right on track.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:27 AM   #8
bucket7788
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I'm getting pretty close now. I'm still finding a bit of knock here and there due to being in higher load cells. I must say that I never expected to get to a 2.71 load. I'm pretty psyched! MAF numbers look nice too I need to dial the upper RPM boost back a bit though. My IDC's are over 100%.

Anyway, I'm doing some very fine tweeks on the TD Cont table to zero things in a bit more. How much boost oscillation do you guys consider "Rock Steady"? My stock boost was FAR from rock steady, so what is considered acceptable?

Here's my latest 3rd Gear log.

Code:
RPM	Load	MAF   Tot Time	IDC	Boost Targ Boost  Error  WGDC	Throttle TD Burst TD Cont
2930	0.99	60.95	30	19.38	0.15	16.98	17.96	9.41	100	0	3.2
3018	1.39	69.18	17.5	26.04	3.77	17.23	14.87	25.49	100	0	3.2
3112	1.9	97.65	12.5	40.49	9.29	17.36	9.69	41.57	100	0	3.2
3254	2.26	126.73	10	52.75	14.22	17.4	4.52	59.61	100	0	3.2
3424	2.65	153.25	9.5	64.29	17.85	17.36	0.75	59.22	100	0	-0.02
3637	2.71	162.88	10.5	68.76	18.14	17.4	-0.48	56.86	100	0	-0.19
3796	2.54	160.91	11.5	67.21	16.54	17.4	1.16	59.61	100	0	1.2
3970	2.64	176.18	12	73.69	17.56	17.4	0.73	59.61	100	0	0.31
4194	2.7	186.49	13	80.66	17.99	17.4	-0.06	59.22	100	0	0
4350	2.7	197.36	13.5	83.52	17.7	17.4	0.15	59.22	100	0	0
4576	2.65	200.38	14	85.54	17.7	17.4	0.17	59.22	100	0	0
4759	2.65	206.99	14.5	88.61	17.7	17.44	0.23	59.22	100	0	0
4889	2.68	220.77	15	93.87	17.27	17.4	0.56	60.39	100	0	0.45
5078	2.66	225.27	14.5	96.4	17.27	17.4	0.68	60.78	100	0	0.56
5289	2.63	228.31	14.5	98.16	16.83	17.4	0.91	61.18	100	0	0.93
5446	2.57	231.77	15	99.92	16.4	17.4	1.43	61.57	100	0	1.4
5588	2.53	236.54	15.5	100.81	15.82	16.65	1.6	60.39	100	0	1.2
5738	2.47	236.54	16.5	101.61	15.38	15.53	1.1	58.82	100	0	0.98
5919	2.41	236.98	18	102.28	14.8	14.83	0.7	58.04	100	0	0.38
6029	2.35	234.38	19.5	102.89	14.51	14.1	0.06	56.86	100	0	0
6162	2.3	237.41	20	103.86	14.22	13.71	-0.04	55.29	100	0	-0.03
6260	2.23	235.68	22.5	102.84	13.93	13.34	0.04	54.12	100	0	-0.05
6388	2.2	233.07	23	102.21	13.93	13.01	-0.21	52.94	100	0	-0.14
6522	2.16	236.11	22.5	102.95	13.64	12.94	-0.25	52.55	100	0	-0.16
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:48 AM   #9
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i believe IDCs have more to do with maf scaling and the fuel table.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:55 AM   #10
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My MAF (and table) is stock. My AFR's are where I want them.

The only thing left for me to do is taper boost so that my IDC isn't static.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:24 PM   #11
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Your log appears to start at 2930 rpm and you still have a boost oscillation of 1.6 psi at 3637 rpm. You need to dial in your boost better.

Start your log at 2000 rpm.
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Old 02-13-2008, 01:25 PM   #12
bucket7788
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Dialing in my boost is what this thread is about.

I'm working on it.

It's already pretty stable from 2k up. Now I'm trying to dial out overshoots for going full throttle at higher RPM.

Buck
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:38 PM   #13
bucket7788
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Default Latest Log

So, weather and life have made tuning slow lately. But, I've made some progress.

First, a few observations:
1. Small changes yeild LARGE results. A 1% change in WGDC can make a substantial difference with this BCS. Be patient and methodical when changing Max WGDC table.

2. Don't change too many things at once. Cranking on Max WGDC and both turbo dynamics tables all at once will yield very unpredictable results. KISS applies here. Make one change, maybe two, then go see what results.

3. Intake Air Temp and Atmospheric Pressure WGDC Compensation tables have considerable effect on boost. I changed both of these tables quite a bit. I've read that some guys have zero'd out the WG Atmospheric Pressure compensation table. I didn't, but flattened it out considerably as Wage suggested. I flattened out the IAT table as well.

3a. IAT Comp reduces WGDC while Atm Press Comp INCREASES WGDC (up to max WGDC table value). They work in opposite directions. Tea Cups PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong! One of the places that I log is a very secluded road on the top of a mountain and whenever I logged there, it gave me fits trying to figure out what was going on because I got more WGDC than expected for the changes that I made. Then I started logging Patm. Some days the atmospheric pressure up on the mountain was below 14 psi. Anyway, tuning boost at different elevations and IAT's is very difficult. It throws extra variables into what to tune. I now log both IAT and Patm.


4. Turbo Dynamics Burst doesn't seem like it is ever used while I'm on the throttle. The only time that I've logged TD Burst is when going from 100% to 0% throttle. I'm not sure if changing the TD Burst Thresholds is advisable, or will make a difference. I might do it just to see what happens.

5. Turbo Dynamics Continuous is very important. But it is not the most important table. Max WGDC is. If your max WGDC table it too high, no amount of TD Cont fiddling will help you. I suspect that many of us that had trouble with spiking and oscillations made the mistake of having Max WGDC too high, then trying to correct with TD Cont. It may *kind of* work that way, but it makes everything a lot easier with proper Max WGDC. Others have said this, but it didn't sink in until I actually had to do it myself.

6. The 100% column for the Max WGDC table shouldn't necessarily be all of the same value for the cells that have the same corresponding Target Boost. As an example, my current Target boost is 18.5psi for the 100% column between 2500-5000 RPM, then tapers. I have the Max WGDC for the corresponding cells set at 62.5%. The problem is that boost starts to taper itself with those WGDC from about 3800 RPM on. I suspect that I'll have to bump up Max WGDC in the two cells that are effected in order to get boost to hold a bit longer. In fact, my next flash will do just that by .5%. Remember, small steps.

7. Install a switch instead of messing around with the stupid flash connector. I'm sick of crawling under my dash all of the time. It's my next mod.

Logs forthcoming.

Buck
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Old 03-02-2008, 05:52 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucket7788 View Post
3a. IAT Comp reduces WGDC while Atm Press Comp INCREASES WGDC (up to max WGDC table value). They work in opposite directions.
The WGDC compensation tables do not change the actual WGDC. The compensation is applied to the max WGDC map value to determine the final Max WGDC. For example, if atmospheric compensation was 10%, then the max wgdc is compensated by 10%, which would work exactly the same as if you were to a flash a 10% change to the max wgdc table yourself. Only turbo dynamics directly impacts the applied WGDC, with max wgdc simply being the max limit.
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:06 PM   #15
bucket7788
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Default 3rd Gear Log

Conditions: 30 F, secluded road, no other traffic, 3rd gear.

There are a few things that I looked at here.

First, I'm not quite making target boost, but pretty close between 3200-3500 RPM. Notice that WGDC is about 60.7. The table is 62.5% for that area, so the compensation tables are knocking WGDC down by almost 2%. I was considering increasing my Max WGDC there, but if I do that, when it warms up over 50 deg I'll potentially get overboost. So I'm leaving the Max WGDC alone there for now. I'll look at it again when it warms up.

2nd, boost starts taking a dive around 4100 RPM. You can see the TD Cont values increasing. I decided to add .5 WGDC in the 4500 and 5000 RPM cells to see if that helps flatten my boost curve. I have to be careful though. I'm still bumping up against static fuel injectors. IDC goes over 90% at about 5000 RPM. I'm hoping the Walbro that's on the way might help me out with that too. We'll see.


Code:
Load	RPM	Boost	T Boost	WGDC	MAF	TD Cont	IDC	Throttle
0.99	1887	-5.08	-0.85	0	17.78	3	6.44	100
1.14	1964	0.58	13.69	5.88	40.85	3	13.83	100
1.23	1972	1.74	16.38	20.78	39.06	3	15.44	100
1.3	2057	3.05	17.58	38.82	43.06	3	17.11	100
1.41	2150	4.21	17.71	55.69	47.26	3	18.8	100
1.55	2285	5.51	18	57.65	54.25	3	21.45	100
1.75	2365	7.11	18.22	58.82	61.78	3	23.71	100
1.97	2492	9.29	18.45	60.39	74.26	3	29.23	100
2.29	2625	11.75	18.47	60.78	90.07	3	34.38	100
2.46	2747	15.38	18.47	60.78	107.24	3	45.71	100
2.48	2995	17.85	18.47	60.39	121.03	0.73	52.39	100
2.51	3129	18.28	18.47	60.39	129.31	0.43	55.4	100
2.58	3274	18.43	18.47	60.78	137.74	0.3	59.36	100
2.58	3538	18.43	18.47	60.78	150.13	0.3	64.15	100
2.57	3744	18.14	18.47	60.78	158.04	0.77	67.9	100
2.54	3943	18.14	18.47	60.78	166.96	0.73	71.05	100
2.56	4120	17.99	18.47	60.78	175.52	0.84	75.6	100
2.57	4352	17.7	18.47	60.78	181.47	1.18	79.85	100
2.53	4472	17.7	18.47	60.78	192.48	1.08	83	100
2.52	4646	17.56	18.47	60.78	193.98	1.26	84.26	100
2.51	4908	17.27	18.47	60.78	204.2	1.64	87.57	100
2.48	5067	16.98	18.39	60.78	212.21	1.95	91.89	100
2.43	5169	16.69	17.91	60.78	219.41	1.88	93.73	100
2.37	5399	16.11	17.67	60.78	216.6	2.02	94.45	100
2.33	5539	15.53	17.02	60	216.21	1.91	93.35	100
2.28	5694	15.24	16.09	58.43	220.61	1.38	95.97	100
2.22	5854	14.51	14.73	56.86	223.11	0.91	98.52	100
2.16	5962	14.07	13.96	54.9	219.41	0.31	96.66	100
2.11	6122	13.64	13.69	53.73	218.61	0.56	96.65	100
2.08	6244	13.2	13.34	52.16	219.8	0.48	97.25	100
2.01	6404	13.06	13.09	50.98	221.43	0.5	98.37	100
1.99	6516	12.77	12.8	49.8	219.81	0.4	97.31	100
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tea cups View Post
The WGDC compensation tables do not change the actual WGDC. The compensation is applied to the max WGDC map value to determine the final Max WGDC. For example, if atmospheric compensation was 10%, then the max wgdc is compensated by 10%, which would work exactly the same as if you were to a flash a 10% change to the max wgdc table yourself. Only turbo dynamics directly impacts the applied WGDC, with max wgdc simply being the max limit.
I know that you must get tired of correcting people. I want you to know that I appreciate all of your efforts and replies.

Thanks again,

Buck
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:30 PM   #17
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Default 4th Gear. Same day, time and place.

I fully achieve target boost in 4th gear, but it is still tapering above 4200 RPM. There is also a bit of oscillation, but it isn't too bad. I might dial back the TD Cont value from .31 to .28 or so.


Code:
Load	RPM	Boost	T Boost	WGDC	TD Cont	IDC	MAF	Throttle
1.21	2012	1.6	17.56	9.02	3	15.03	39.58	100
1.31	2079	3.05	17.6	27.06	3	16.85	42.59	100
1.41	2135	4.21	17.64	41.96	3	18.68	47.57	100
1.51	2152	5.66	17.75	56.08	3	20.2	51.38	100
1.62	2220	6.82	17.87	57.25	3	21.78	56.41	100
1.75	2254	8.27	17.94	57.65	3	24.04	62.68	100
1.93	2333	10.01	18.06	58.04	3	27.37	69.89	100
2.09	2380	11.61	18.22	59.22	3	30.14	79.15	100
2.23	2447	13.64	18.31	60.39	3	35.85	87.07	100
2.31	2521	15.67	18.47	60.78	3	40.87	95.27	100
2.38	2586	17.12	18.47	60.78	1.75	43.58	102.08	100
2.43	2671	17.85	18.41	60.39	1.06	45.58	107.49	100
2.48	2781	18.28	18.47	60.39	0.55	48.64	116.5	100
2.49	2833	18.72	18.47	60.39	0	50.77	120.47	100
2.46	2930	18.72	18.47	60.39	0	51.87	121.6	100
2.48	2994	18.57	18.47	60.78	0.31	52.37	121.91	100
2.47	3081	18.57	18.41	60.39	0	55.22	131.86	100
2.51	3193	18.43	18.47	60.78	0.31	56.53	133.91	100
2.51	3295	18.86	18.47	60.39	0	58.59	137.45	100
2.54	3369	18.43	18.52	60.78	0.43	59.65	141.83	100
2.6	3451	18.43	18.47	60.78	0.38	61.87	145.76	100
2.56	3524	18.86	18.47	60.78	0	65.41	155.5	100
2.58	3616	18.28	18.47	60.39	0.5	65.57	154.85	100
2.56	3702	18.14	18.41	60.39	0.61	67.91	160.32	100
2.58	3776	18.28	18.47	60.78	0.6	68.48	161.63	100
2.53	3858	18.43	18.41	60.39	0.45	69.96	165.3	100
2.54	3954	17.99	18.47	60.78	0.75	70.85	166.98	100
2.56	4030	18.14	18.47	60.78	0.8	72.22	166.96	100
2.55	4134	18.43	18.47	60.78	0.43	77.61	180.42	100
2.55	4225	18.28	18.47	60.78	0.5	77.51	178.67	100
2.56	4308	17.99	18.47	60.78	0.84	78.11	180.41	100
2.55	4358	17.99	18.41	60.39	0.8	79.95	187.25	100
2.54	4417	17.85	18.47	60.39	0.84	81.03	186.88	100
2.53	4520	17.85	18.41	60.39	0.93	82.94	193.98	100
2.52	4618	17.85	18.47	60.78	1.08	84.72	195.47	100
2.52	4673	17.85	18.47	60.78	0.93	84.73	195.47	100
2.52	4746	17.85	18.41	60.39	1	86.57	198.83	100
2.51	4820	17.85	18.41	60.39	0.95	87.28	201.82	100
2.52	4896	17.7	18.41	60.39	1.16	87.73	202.23	100
2.5	4957	17.56	18.41	60.39	1.28	89.89	208.2	100
2.49	5047	17.27	18.41	60.78	1.5	90.44	210.2	100
2.47	5133	16.98	18.22	60.78	1.69	91.99	213	100
2.47	5190	16.98	18.12	60.78	1.62	93	214.6	100
2.43	5222	16.69	17.87	60.39	1.58	92.47	218.63	100
2.46	5323	16.54	17.79	60.39	1.62	93.11	215.01	100
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Old 03-10-2008, 03:36 AM   #18
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I am liking your thread so far. It's informative to hear how you are working through these problems as they come. I hope I will have as much success as you. If you have the links handy to the Rom Raider threads discussing the GM BCS conversion could you post them. No problem if not, I will dig them up.
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Old 03-10-2008, 09:16 AM   #19
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Ace, I edited my first post to include links to a couple of threads of interest. Let me know if you have others to include as well.

Good Idea. Kind of Unabomber style
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Old 03-11-2008, 01:04 AM   #20
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Thanks for the links. Let us know when you make any more progress.
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:31 AM   #21
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Once you get this all dialed in, I suggest you start trying to get faster spool. With some tuning, you can get MBC response from the GM Solenoid.

After much tweaking, here is my Continuos table:
Code:
-2.94	-1.70	-0.31	0.31	0.77	1.70	2.94	4.51	7.00
-3.00	-1.00	-0.10	0.10	0.50	1.50	7.50	22.00	100.00
Here is my Burst table:
Code:
-2.94	-1.70	-0.77	0.00	0.31	0.77	1.70	2.94	4.51
-5.50	-4.00	-1.00	0.00	0.50	2.00	9.00	22.00	45.00
Here is the last column of my Max Duty table:
Code:
	100
800	99.6
2500	99.6
2600	77.3
3000	69.9
4000	69.9
5000	77.3
5500	91.8
7000	96.1
I tuned my Max duty cycle so that I hit my targets in higher gears without any waver. Waver means that I need to slightly lower max duty at that RPM. Missed targets means that I need to slightly raise the max duty at that RPM. Once I had the targets nailed perfectly, I left the tables alone. In the winter and summer I've played with the temp compensation, and now I've got perfect boost from -10 to 110 degrees F. I can hit 19psi in 1st gear using these tables.

Notice that I rescaled the tables to allow more agressive duty cycle when the boost error is higher. Also note that I rescaled the max duty RPM to allow me to prevent spiking. The fast duty cycle ramp up at 5000 RPM allows me to reach full boost in 2nd and 3rd gear with the puny TD04 on my 6MT. Without that, the turbo falls flat before it can spool. In my car, 2nd gear lasts all of 1 second, so there's not much time for spool.
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Old 03-12-2008, 10:53 AM   #22
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Have you altered the thresholds for TD Cont and/or TD Burst at all? What you have done makes a lot of sense to me. I only wonder why you need such huge Max WGDC numbers. Though if you have Turbo Dynamics dialed in perfectly, I guess it isn't as critical.

If you don't mind, could you post a log or two of, say 2nd and 4th gear pulls? I would also really like to see your compensation tables too.

Thanks,

Buck
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:21 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucket7788 View Post
Have you altered the thresholds for TD Cont and/or TD Burst at all? What you have done makes a lot of sense to me. I only wonder why you need such huge Max WGDC numbers. Though if you have Turbo Dynamics dialed in perfectly, I guess it isn't as critical.

If you don't mind, could you post a log or two of, say 2nd and 4th gear pulls? I would also really like to see your compensation tables too.

Thanks,

Buck
TD Burst Threshold is -0.50/+0.50
TD Continous Threshold is -0.25/0.25

Without the huge Max Duty numbers, I'd get 17psi in 1st, 13psi in 2nd, 15psi in 3rd, and 20psi in 4th-6th. WOT Boost target is 20psi from 3000-4000, then taper. Boost target is 0psi below 50% throttle for economy. That plays a factor in why I had to ramp up my duty cycles as well.

2nd:
Code:
RPM	TPS	MPH	WG %	Boost
2823	0	22	0	-10.882
2821	1.96	22	0	-10.882
2825	4.71	22	0	-9.722
2789	22.35	22	0	-3.627
2851	49.41	22	0	0.435
2888	83.53	22	48.24	2.467
3142	100	22	70.2	5.949
3400	100	24	70.2	9.431
3632	100	24	70.2	13.929
3925	100	25	70.2	19.298
4183	100	25	70.2	19.298
4491	100	25	70.2	18.718
4777	100	29	70.2	18.282
5102	100	29	70.59	17.122
5353	100	34	71.76	16.106
5597	100	34	73.33	15.38
5868	100	34	75.69	14.655
6063	100	40	79.22	13.929
6329	100	40	84.31	13.639
6510	100	45	87.45	13.494
6655	100	45	89.8	13.494
6957	100	49	90.59	13.639
3rd:
Code:
RPM	TPS	MPH	WG %	Boost
3671	10.98	40	0	-9.431
3729	17.25	40	0	-5.078
3684	18.43	39	0	-3.918
3765	26.67	39	0	-1.886
3794	47.45	40	0	4.353
3892	95.29	40	63.92	9.141
4089	100	40	70.2	14.655
4213	100	40	70.98	18.863
4383	100	40	70.98	19.588
4562	100	42	70.59	19.298
4690	100	42	70.2	18.718
4814	100	45	70.2	18.137
4970	100	45	70.2	17.847
5140	100	49	70.2	17.267
5327	100	49	72.16	16.541
5423	100	49	72.94	16.106
5597	100	53	74.12	15.671
4th:
Code:
RPM	TPS	MPH	WG %	Boost
1929	3.53	29	0	-10.157
1954	4.71	27	0	-8.561
1913	10.98	27	0	-7.11
1961	23.14	27	0	-2.031
1990	37.65	27	0	0.435
2007	77.65	27	65.88	1.306
2054	100	27	100	2.031
2125	100	27	100	2.757
2169	100	28	100	3.337
2216	100	28	100	4.063
2280	100	29	100	4.788
2321	100	29	97.65	5.514
2404	100	29	92.16	6.239
2465	100	30	88.63	7.545
2505	100	30	82.75	8.706
2587	100	33	80.39	10.157
2658	100	33	78.04	11.753
2776	100	35	75.69	13.639
2854	100	35	74.12	15.816
2972	100	35	70.98	18.137
3052	100	38	70.2	19.878
3171	100	38	70.2	20.024
3249	100	40	70.2	19.733
3351	100	40	70.2	19.878
3451	100	43	69.41	20.169
3571	100	43	69.02	20.169
3669	100	43	69.02	19.153
3774	100	46	70.2	19.008
3894	100	46	70.2	19.588
3998	100	50	70.2	19.878
4063	100	50	69.8	19.733
4185	100	53	69.8	19.588
4308	100	53	69.8	19.298
4401	100	53	69.41	19.008
4451	100	57	69.41	18.718
4548	100	57	69.41	18.718
4658	100	60	69.02	18.573
4786	100	60	69.02	18.282
4829	100	63	69.02	17.992
4908	100	63	69.02	17.702
5071	100	63	69.41	17.412
5105	100	66	69.8	17.267
5212	100	66	69.8	17.122
5323	100	69	70.2	16.831
5353	100	69	70.2	16.396
5446	100	72	70.59	16.106
5568	100	72	73.33	15.816
5626	100	72	74.12	15.525
5729	100	75	75.29	15.525
5769	100	75	75.69	15.38
5850	100	78	76.86	15.09
5933	100	78	78.04	14.945
6048	100	80	79.61	14.8
6107	100	80	81.18	14.51
6219	100	80	82.75	14.365
6271	100	83	83.92	14.365
1-2 and 2-3 shifts:
Code:
RPM	TPS	MPH	WG %	Boost
6416	100	23	83.92	13.059
6631	0	23	0	-7.255
5841	0	29	0	-8.706
5423	22.75	29	0	-2.031
4717	90.98	33	62.75	6.965
4753	100	33	77.25	12.043
5023	100	33	78.82	17.412
5205	100	36	78.82	17.122
5547	100	36	79.22	15.816
5868	100	39	80.78	14.8
6137	100	39	83.53	14.075
6188	100	43	85.1	13.929
6516	100	43	89.8	13.349
6672	100	43	92.16	13.349
6745	100	48	94.12	13.494
6544	0	48	0	-3.192
6048	0	52	0	-9.141
5699	55.29	52	21.96	2.322
5296	100	53	65.88	9.431
5419	100	53	90.59	13.929
5568	100	53	92.16	16.106
Atmospheric WG Comp:
Code:
8.51	9.75	10.98	12.22	13.46	14.70
14.8	14.8	14.8	10.2	4.7	0.0
Intake Temp WG Comp:
Code:
-40	-22	-4	14	32	50	68	86	104	122	140	158	176	194	212	230
-50.0	-37.5	-31.2	-25.0	-18.8	-6.2	0.0	1.6	4.7	6.2	7.8	9.4	12.5	14.1	15.6	18.8
This method isn't the traditional way of doing it, but it's smooth and fast. I have to roll into the throttle when autoxing or I spin my 245's...
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Old 03-12-2008, 01:32 PM   #24
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Note that when I take off from a roll in 2nd and 3rd I hit 19.5psi, but when I run through the gears, I hit 17.5 psi. That's my target because of the taper. I can't hit the targets when changing gears without the higher WG Duty. The higher WG Duty at high RPM could allow a spike in 5th or 6th gear, but my poor abused 148,000 mile TD04 doesn't have the juice to build a spike there.

You obviously can't just paste my values into your ECU, but applying extended tables and higher duty at low RPM can give great results. I tuned my MAX duty at low RPM while in 6th gear.

Last edited by bluescoobywagon; 03-12-2008 at 01:38 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 03-13-2008, 06:39 PM   #25
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Thanks for the data. It helps a lot.

My current situation is that warmer temps are confounding me a bit. My latest log, which I'll post in a bit, show that I'm no longer hitting target boost even with higher Max WGDC with nothing else changed. Well, nothing except atmospheric temp. IAT has gotten higher as nicer weather has moved in and my boost has gone down. Meh.

So, I feel like I'm chasing a ghost. I guess that I'm just going to have to tune it in warmer weather, then mess with the compensation to keep it in check when the weather gets cold again.

Third Gear Pull

Code:
RPM	IDC	MAF	Boost	WGDC	T Boost
1994	9.36	31.97	-1.74	0	6.56
2024	15.06	36.86	1.74	18.04	17.33
2065	16.31	40.67	2.9	32.94	17.5
2126	17.66	44.98	4.06	47.84	17.62
2203	19.86	49.92	5.37	58.43	17.79
2260	21.59	55.97	6.67	59.61	17.91
2361	24.68	64.14	8.27	60	18.14
2494	29.19	74.46	10.59	61.57	18.39
2610	33.78	85.96	12.77	62.35	18.41
2688	42.15	99.23	15.24	62.35	18.41
2812	47.39	113.13	17.27	62.35	18.41
2984	49.96	119.41	17.7	62.35	18.41
3139	51.14	122.15	17.56	62.35	18.41
3298	53.49	131.58	17.56	62.35	18.41
3448	58.85	141.57	17.7	62.75	18.47
3606	61.86	149.19	17.7	62.35	18.47
3737	63.84	152.98	17.41	62.35	18.41
3896	65.39	161.62	17.27	62.75	18.41
4067	70.31	164.91	17.27	62.75	18.41
4232	73.01	170.98	17.27	62.75	18.47
4391	76.9	181.47	17.12	62.75	18.41
4562	79.32	185.76	17.12	62.75	18.41
4720	81.59	192.48	17.12	62.75	18.47
4842	83.56	196.59	16.98	62.75	18.47
4960	85.71	201.48	16.83	62.75	18.41
5116	86.89	206.6	16.4	62.75	18.33
5234	88.2	207.8	16.11	63.14	18.08
5384	90.73	212.2	16.11	63.14	17.96
5539	89.81	209.4	15.38	63.14	17.77
5673	91.15	212.21	15.09	61.18	16.59
5791	92.66	215.01	14.8	59.61	15.8
5910	94.34	218.2	14.36	58.43	14.87
6014	92.38	213.8	13.78	56.47	13.98
6127	92.81	213	13.49	55.29	13.63
6183	93.65	214.2	13.2	54.51	13.52
6286	93.88	217.8	12.91	53.33	13.25
6443	94.84	216.21	12.77	52.55	13.11
6499	93.79	214.6	12.62	51.76	12.94
6596	92.88	213.81	12.62	50.98	12.8
6696	91.43	212.21	12.33	50.2	12.63

Last edited by bucket7788; 03-13-2008 at 06:52 PM. Reason: Add Log
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