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Old 02-12-2008, 09:53 AM   #1
06OutbackSport
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Default Grounding Kit for N/A cars

I'm not sure if this should be in the Electrical and Lighting or N/A powertrain forum, but because it's directed to N/A cars, I figured here is best.

I was curious if anyone has had any success with grounding kits for their cars. I have a bunch of 4 and 8 gauge amp wire lying around, and I was planning on grounding various parts of the engine... if it would help me out.

I know this won't give me power, but I'm hoping it will clean up some of my sensor signals (mainly TPS and O2 sensors). If anyone has any recommendations I'd be happy to hear them.

Thanks.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:15 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06OutbackSport View Post
I'm not sure if this should be in the Electrical and Lighting or N/A powertrain forum, but because it's directed to N/A cars, I figured here is best.

I was curious if anyone has had any success with grounding kits for their cars. I have a bunch of 4 and 8 gauge amp wire lying around, and I was planning on grounding various parts of the engine... if it would help me out.

I know this won't give me power, but I'm hoping it will clean up some of my sensor signals (mainly TPS and O2 sensors). If anyone has any recommendations I'd be happy to hear them.

Thanks.
The paranoid fabrication kit worked well for me. Results were good, less jerk in 1st while starting out when not adding throttle during takeoff. Also voltage while cruising went up .5 volts. Do some searching, I think this topic has been beaten to death in other threads.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:23 AM   #3
06OutbackSport
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Thanks for the input.

I searched around a bit, but I found most of the comments being given by people with turbo cars. I can think of better things to do with the amp wire if it wouldn't be any noticeable difference for N/A cars.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:29 AM   #4
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It smooths everything out... revs, electrical stuff, 1st gear. They work well on turbo or NA, I'd suggest making one or picking one up at some point.
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Old 02-12-2008, 10:31 AM   #5
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The difference is noticable as I noted, just don't expect any real power gains from the mod (although claims have been made). Grounding bypasses the high resistant spot welds (which also tend to get corroded) on the body and poor conductivity of the aluminum motor parts (when compared to wire) allowing for a more efficient circuit. If I had some spare wire I'd do it in a heartbeat, just do it! Recommended mod regardless of engine type (turbo or n/a).
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:04 AM   #6
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i made one from amp wire and a distribution block..deffiantly helped things run a lil smoother..clean the stock grounds off with some sandpaper (there is usually paint under them) and cover with some di-electic grease..that helps a lil too
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:11 AM   #7
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I just remembered I have one of these kits sitting over at my garage, maybe I should throw it on!
Where do the leads go? Just the major stock grounds? Any ground you can find?
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:16 AM   #8
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I made one too, it connects like 6 points around the engine and engine bay. It made my headlights brighter. I'm not going to say whether it somehow made my car run smoother or something about throttle response because those are completely subjective findings.
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:18 PM   #9
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Buy some alligator clips. They are $0.33/6 at harbor Freight. Then you can clamp on to various part and the battery negative terminal for a temp testing. Keep the wires that makes difference. Disconnect the one don't make any difference. later you can do permanent grounding of those good spots.

Mind anyone give some suggestions of which spots are recommended for trials?

Jerry
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Old 02-12-2008, 02:37 PM   #10
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I think this is one of those "YMMV" mods. I didn't notice anything when I put it on my car, using this guide as a reference. I figure at the very least, it won't hurt anything.
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Old 02-12-2008, 04:31 PM   #11
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Another +1 for the Paranoid kit. Car felt much better afterwards, there is no doubt. Drove out of the garage and up the driveway in 1st, let off the gas expecting it to buck like a bull like it did before, and it didn't!Gear changes (going both ways) also seem to be smoother. Just what I found, though.
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:27 PM   #12
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yeup i was way way way to lazy to make my own kit and the paranoid fabrications kit was just the right price for me.
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:38 PM   #13
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Did it help you piker?
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Old 02-12-2008, 05:57 PM   #14
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I highly recommend it on the sole basis of the existing ground from the battery to the body is a small 8 gauge wire. I installed a stereo and run (2) 4 gauge wires to the amps, ok a little over kill but my JL will not operate with less so i ran another to my speaker amp. It did smooth things out alot too. I made mine from leftover wire and just ran it to alt mount, TB mount, intake and both fenders, again probably overkill, but what is it going to hurt?
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:41 PM   #15
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yes, funny you mention that because i removed it when my car had to go into the shop and since than my car has felt rougher in the idles not as smooth and the freakin door keeps shocking me!!
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Old 02-12-2008, 06:46 PM   #16
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if you make it just use the 8ga, 4 is way over kill as well as 8ga too. i would hit up all the normal spots to ground, and don't forget to tie into the stock grounds on the intake. those seem to really help out.
you could also upgrade the wire from the bat to the fender with 4ga too.
Shane

edit, check out here. http://www.rs25.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10865
thats around 15pages of people talking about RS grounding kits. lots of feedback there
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Old 02-12-2008, 07:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by piker28 View Post
yes, funny you mention that because i removed it when my car had to go into the shop and since than my car has felt rougher in the idles not as smooth and the freakin door keeps shocking me!!
My door is always shocking me too!! I just figured it was my ass moving around in the seats cruising with my tunes building up static? The way my car runs and the way everyone describes how it helps in first gear, I think this is a definite mod I need to do, soon.
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Old 02-12-2008, 09:58 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Drizzie View Post
My door is always shocking me too!! I just figured it was my ass moving around in the seats cruising with my tunes building up static? The way my car runs and the way everyone describes how it helps in first gear, I think this is a definite mod I need to do, soon.
You will be very surprised what something so simple will do for you. Get it on it ASAP! And piker, it is very funny you say that. Come to think of it, I was ALWAYS getting shocked before. I thought it was just the fleece jacket rubbing on the leather seats, but now that you mention it, I don't get shocked anymore no matter what I wear!
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTracer View Post
The difference is noticable as I noted, just don't expect any real power gains from the mod (although claims have been made). Grounding bypasses the high resistant spot welds (which also tend to get corroded) on the body and poor conductivity of the aluminum motor parts (when compared to wire) allowing for a more efficient circuit. If I had some spare wire I'd do it in a heartbeat, just do it! Recommended mod regardless of engine type (turbo or n/a).
Poor conductivity of the engine and high resistance of spot welds? Where did you get this info? Aluminum is extremely conductive. Those high voltage power lines that conduct electricity across huge expanses (100's of miles) are aluminum cable because they conduct so well. (also because it is light) And the engine has huge amounts of aluminum which lowers resistance just like a large gauge wire does. Spot welds MIGHT be an area of high resistance IF there were one or two on each piece being joined, but there are dozens, creating a large area of connected metal which is the same as having a large gauge wire connecting them. Im not saying the grounding kit doesn't help somehow but those two reasons are ignorant and totally incorrect.
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:16 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTracer View Post
The paranoid fabrication kit worked well for me. Results were good, less jerk in 1st while starting out when not adding throttle during takeoff. Also voltage while cruising went up .5 volts. Do some searching, I think this topic has been beaten to death in other threads.
+1 to this being covered 1000 times before. One more example where a 5 minute search would have answered every question and more in the first place.
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:16 PM   #21
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Just wondering, is the Paranoid Fabrication standard grounding kit good enough or do I have to go for the whole 9 yards for a good result?
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:39 PM   #22
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I'd say you're safe with anything shane at PF makes. Awesome company.

Kevin
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Old 02-12-2008, 11:41 PM   #23
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i have the standard kit i think its good enough unless you want to go crazy
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:38 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
Poor conductivity of the engine and high resistance of spot welds? Where did you get this info? Aluminum is extremely conductive. Those high voltage power lines that conduct electricity across huge expanses (100's of miles) are aluminum cable because they conduct so well. (also because it is light) And the engine has huge amounts of aluminum which lowers resistance just like a large gauge wire does. Spot welds MIGHT be an area of high resistance IF there were one or two on each piece being joined, but there are dozens, creating a large area of connected metal which is the same as having a large gauge wire connecting them. Im not saying the grounding kit doesn't help somehow but those two reasons are ignorant and totally incorrect.
Ignorant and incorrect? you picked the wrong flame, stay with me as I walk you through a science lesson:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistivity
Copper (wire in the grounding kit) is 67.85% LESS resistant than Aluminum (=2.82/1.68-1). Electrical current flows through the path of least resistance. Aluminum is used in high voltage wires because it is CHEAP (AL is roughly 3x cheaper than copper), conducts OKAY, and is light enough to be suspended above the ground. How can the engine be one big grounding wire as you claim when it is separated by various gaskets, rubber mounts, etc (RESISTANCE)?

And to the second part of your statement:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_conduction
"Resistance comes about in a metal because of the scattering of electrons from defects in the lattice or by phonons." What do you think a spot-weld is? Welding two pieces of similar metal together does not produce a clean atomic lattice thus resistance is added.

Please enlighten me on why YOU think a grounding kit works instead of criticizing scientifically accurate (and proven) information.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:59 AM   #25
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http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=674153

This is found on the Interior/Exterior Mod forum for some reason, but it seems reasonable, turbo or not.

Paranoid kit seems excellent, all very low resistance stuff. I just bought a spool of 10 ga wire from NAPA, like the guide above said. To be honest, there's a limit to how little resistance you can have, and I think 10 ga is adequate for the sensors.

There is an 8 ga wire just off the terminal onto the chassis. The chassis is grounded extremely well, and therefore is unnecessary to do more grounding to that.

Grounding to struts are the worst, because they really don't do much at all.

This grouding guide targets the important sensors. What he doesn't list is the throttle body which is electronically controlled. Consider bolting that up as well.

Anyway, this is what I'm going to do, and I'll tell you when I get around to it.

I won't be able to supply info on shifting, because I have an AT, but even that is electronically controlled, so I should see smoother shifting. Even the AT jerks out like mad at times.

I'm more excited about better power windows. lol.
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