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Old 02-14-2008, 01:17 PM   #1
skimmilk68
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Default Can a B-1B do a barrel roll?

I'm in engineering class and teacher says the B-1 won't be able to complete a barrel roll... I disagree...

who's right?
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:19 PM   #2
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A true 1G-barrel roll? Probably, nearly any plane can.

A snap roll? Doubtful.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:20 PM   #3
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http://www.airshowbuzz.com/forums/in...ter&f=55&t=134

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On several different occasions, I have heard that a particular B-1 pilot did an aileron roll with a B-1 at an air show. Some have dismissed this as the kind of thing that would immediately end the pilot's career and, therefore, impossible. And some have heard that they had heard the same story from a credible source. Can anybody out there offer something like a definitive answer: was there a woman AF Reserve pilot who did an aileron roll in a B-1 at relatively low altitude during an air show in North American sometime during the last 20 years?

John Cudahy


Posted by: Steven Holzinger Jan 26 2007, 01:06 PM
John, if I recall, the GA ANG Bone crew at Miramar in 1999 did a roll (performed at like 4,000+ feet up) and I believe there was a woman among the crew...


Posted by: Chris Smallenberg Jan 26 2007, 06:11 PM
The Georgia ANG B-1B crew did a roll on climbout after their high speed pass at Cold Lake in 1999. That's the only time I've seen a complete roll...I was told that Air Force guys were limited a lot more than the Air Force guys in what they could do in their demos.

I have seen Air Force B-1Bs go inverted but once inverted they'd always pull back the way they entered the roll. I have a pic that shows exactly that from a Mountain Home B-1B at McChord AFB in 2000.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:20 PM   #4
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that thing has more power than us, and we can do a barrel roll

so I would say yes

edit: by regulations, no, aerodynamically i would say yes
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:21 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by skimmilk68 View Post
I'm in engineering class and teacher says the B-1 won't be able to complete a barrel roll... I disagree...

who's right?
... did you ask him why?

Show him this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=3IV9PZW1N9U ... yes, that's a 707. On a test flight. Tex Johnson had large testicles.

... if an airliner can do it, I'd imagine a high-speed variable geometry (and thus, pretty damn well engineered) military bomber could accomplish it. Also, ask him what he means by "can do." Are we talking structural failure, or simply that it'll result in some sort of unrecoverable stall / spin / etc?
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:21 PM   #6
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Hell yes a B1-B can do a barrel roll. Why the hell not?

I've seen a 767 do a barrel roll.

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s...VTS_01_1-7.flv

Here's a video of one doing a roll. Not a barrel roll, looks more like a Cuban.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:22 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Thumper23 View Post
that thing has more power than us, and we can do a barrel roll

so I would say yes

edit: by regulations, no, aerodynamically i would say yes
This is pretty sound logic. I don't think you can argue this.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:23 PM   #8
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This video suggests otherwise....

skip to about 1:30 remaining.

Dammit - linky is borked -- it's in this thread --

http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s...VTS_01_1-7.flv
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:26 PM   #9
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he said something about the engine isn't located in the centerline like a typical fighter doing a barrel roll would cause too much stress on the frame
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:26 PM   #10
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With its wings swept back at a higher rate of speed - more than likely it can.

Just check out this 707 doing a barrel roll

http://www.aviationexplorer.com/707_roll_video.htm



The B-1B's are notorious for malfunctions though. Perhaps this is why your teacher was concerned? I'd also think it'd depend on the roll/airspeed etc - a traditional barrel roll at low speed, depending on the planes coefficient of drag and lift might make a difference. By full roll, I'm talking traditional barrel roll with rudder deflection.

edit: I'd also say it would need sufficient altitude to even begin to attempt this - wouldn't try it at 1000 ft, to be safe I'd give it 10k or so in case something catastrophic were to occur.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:26 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by skimmilk68 View Post
he said something about the engine isn't located in the centerline like a typical fighter doing a barrel roll would cause too much stress on the frame
... this guy is an Engineering professor at the Air Force Academy?

... welp, there goes the Air Force.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:26 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by skimmilk68 View Post
he said something about the engine isn't located in the centerline like a typical fighter doing a barrel roll would cause too much stress on the frame


Show him my video of the 707 Become a hero of the classroom.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:27 PM   #13
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Just saw a video of a bone doing a loop at work.

A barrel roll is a 1g maneuver and any plane could do it, as long as there was enough altitude to complete the move.

I pray to god that your instructor doesn't wear pilot wings.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:27 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by maxQ View Post
A true 1G-barrel roll? Probably, nearly any plane can.

A snap roll? Doubtful.
Not true - some planes have a very asymmetrical airfoil, which would result in significant altitude loss if it was inverted, even with full down elevator. It's the reason why you can't easily snap roll top-wing aircraft, i.e. Cessnas.

You can fly a barrel roll with most planes, which the pilot applies up elevator in the entrance of the roll and begins his roll.. the up elevator offsets the altitude loss brought on by inverted flight.

twotacos wants to go bring his Katana MD out, but it's too damn windy.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:28 PM   #15
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http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra...ideo-7401.html

I win the Internets. Watch the last :30.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thumper23 View Post
that thing has more power than us, and we can do a barrel roll

so I would say yes

edit: by regulations, no, aerodynamically i would say yes
Station wagons rule. Grumman Ironworks FTW



I would say the Lancer is perfectly capable of doing a barrell roll, its just that A/F guys have to route a chit before they go to the bathroom, so it would take too long to get the required approval.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:28 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Mr_Blastman View Post
Show him my video of the 707 Become a hero of the classroom.
... Or a P-38. Or a P-61. Or an ME-262. Or the above-mentioned A-6/EA-6. Or any other multi-engined airplane.

That is some hideous logic.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:28 PM   #18
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Quote:
Posted by: Steven Holzinger Jan 26 2007, 01:06 PM
John, if I recall, the GA ANG Bone crew at Miramar in 1999 did a roll (performed at like 4,000+ feet up) and I believe there was a woman among the crew...
I was there in attendance, and saw it with my very own eyes. So yes, I can confirm this is possible. A roll is a 1G maneuver, and can be accomplished by most, if not all aircraft. So much so, that the FAI doesn't even recognize an aileron roll as a aerobatic maneuver. Only point and slow rolls are.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:29 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by richde View Post
Just saw a video of a bone doing a loop at work.

A barrel roll is a 1g maneuver and any plane could do it, as long as there was enough altitude to complete the move.

I pray to god that your instructor doesn't wear pilot wings.

By 1g maneuver, do you mean positive G's?
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:31 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by twotacosfor99cents View Post
Not true - some planes have a very asymmetrical airfoil, which would result in significant altitude loss if it was inverted, even with full down elevator. It's the reason why you can't easily snap roll top-wing aircraft, i.e. Cessnas.

You can fly a barrel roll with most planes, which the pilot applies up elevator in the entrance of the roll and begins his roll.. the up elevator offsets the altitude loss brought on by inverted flight.

twotacos wants to go bring his Katana MD out, but it's too damn windy.
I said nearly any plane but....


<---Been in a top-wing Cessna while inverted......
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:31 PM   #21
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By 1g maneuver, do you mean positive G's?
I hope so, cause if you hit negative g in a barrel roll, you ****ed it away
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:32 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by maxQ View Post
I said nearly any plane but....


<---Been in a top-wing Cessna while inverted......
DOUG MASTERS!!!!

... don't run the Snake, man. Remember what happened to Jimmy Branson!
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:33 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by r0bman View Post
... Or a P-38. Or a P-61. Or an ME-262. Or the above-mentioned A-6/EA-6. Or any other multi-engined airplane.

That is some hideous logic.

yeah I agree. ME-262 is a great example. Heck, the engines aren't even technically on the wings of the B-1B but instead they are on the wingroots.

How about a de Havilland Mosquito? Mossies were known to do all sorts of crazy stuff while in service in WW II.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:34 PM   #24
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I think it's possible to do a barrel roll in just about anything. The question is: how much altitude are you willing to give up? I don't think a B-1 would have a problem with it, but I don't fly them either.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:34 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole View Post
http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircra...ideo-7401.html

I win the Internets. Watch the last :30.
End of thread.
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