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Old 02-07-2002, 10:28 PM   #1
Keith
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Default Working out, check my plans and help me out

yo, as most of u know, I'm working out now.
So right now, I'm doing this
monday - cardio step aerobics. 1 hour.(also some ab workout)
tuesday- 8-10 miles (25mins) on the bike, "row machine (pulling, using legs and back) (15 mins), and random upper body workout (arms, chest). everything is done as fast as possible with high reps at low weight.


weds cardio step
thur- same thing as tuesday
fri same
sat same
sun same

now my question, is should I NOT do the upper body work out every day? I thinK I read somewhere that your only supposed to do it every other day? is this true.
I just started doing the upper body stuff today, so I haven't done any damage
also, can anyone point me to some sites that have upper body workouts?
Thanks Beochs
Keith

Edit:
my goal is to lose weight and get some kinda strength/stamina worked up ( I'm so friggen weak and out of shape now). I'd like to also tone up a bit.
I have been eating well and drinking alot of water.
thanks for the help
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Old 02-07-2002, 10:31 PM   #2
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you should pm brucelee... are you going to use that oil stuff too?

anyway, i think that you are supposed to work out the opposite muscle like when you do biceps, do the triceps(i dont think onthe same day)...right?

also to loose weight and junk i think you are supposed to stay on smaller weight and do more reps as opposed to someone trying to bulk up who would want to lift large with less reps

Last edited by YaZahX; 02-07-2002 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 02-07-2002, 10:32 PM   #3
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try not to workout the same muscle groups in consecutive days.

you might wanna work on ur back and biceps on one day, chest and triceps on the 3rd day and say shoulders on the 5th.

gives you soem time to rest and heal up
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Old 02-08-2002, 12:56 AM   #4
Keith
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cool deal, I wasn't sure about that, I just wanted to check out what u pplz thought
Next question,
I ride the bike every day (execpt for monday and weds) is that ok? or should I not be doing that. Like I said, I do 25mins on the bike now.

one last question, any good sites out there with diagrams of good workouts with free weights?
Thanks guys
Keith (gonna kick bruceLees ass asap )
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Old 02-08-2002, 01:52 AM   #5
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don't just ride a bike, take spin classes. did wonders for a friend of mine.
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Old 02-08-2002, 03:43 PM   #6
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My 2 cents:

Your plan looks pretty good but I would slightly adjust it:

1) I wouldn't work the same body parts every day. That being said, there's a lot of variation on how much rest your muscles need. Some muscles, like biceps can be worked every day, but others, like your lower back muscles take up to 72 hrs to recoop.
Also, it depends on your lifting routine. I only work out each muscle group once per week (ie. Chest and thighs only on Monday), but I do fairly heavy weight, low reps (6-10). For toning, you do low weight, high reps, multiple times per week.

2) Concerning biking, its really only effective if you do it for a short time at high intensity (sprints) or if you do it at low intensity for a really long time(20+miles). Short time, low intensity on a bike doesn't do very much.


The websites for Men's Health and Muscle and Fitness magazine both have a lot of weight lifting info. Men's Health probably has more what you are looking for.
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Old 02-08-2002, 03:53 PM   #7
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Most muscles generally require 48 hours to recoup....it's during this time that they repair themselves which builds strength. Abs recoup faster and should be done daily.

If you work a muscle more often then it can recoup, then you're just burning energy, not building strenght. In that case, stick with aerobic routines.

As for biking, to get more out of it change your pace during that 20-30 minute ride. Warm-up, then sprint for 2 or 3 minutes, then back off to rest, then sprint again, etc...

Edit: Also, when lifting, make sure you are fatiguing the muscles on sets 2 and 3 (and 4). My guess is that you will be targetting for 12-14 reps, so use enough weight that you fatigue in that range.
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Old 02-08-2002, 07:41 PM   #8
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Sorry, had to chime in on this one. There is no such thing as a "toning" workout. To get muscle tone you must lose fat, period. Building muscle is building muscle.
As well, on the days you work out I would ride the bike after the workout. The workout will burn off carbohydrates for you allowing you to burn fat during your biking quicker. You should also decide on what you want right now, better cardio fitness or lean body mass. A high intensity cardio workout will not allow your body to burn fat as well as a lower intensity one. Fat takes more time to convert to energy than either carbohydrates or protein. You can't beat a brisk walk for fat burning.
You should also vary your workout every 3 to 4 weeks, changing from heavy/low rep to lighter/high rep. Your body will adapt to your workouts after a while reducing the effectiveness, so throw in a change-up. And don't worry about going heavy and "bulking up"... if it was that easy to look like the guys in Flex magazine a lot more people would.
And ab workouts... hit them heavy/low reps three times a week. Your abs are used to doing light work all day long, so hit them hard, they won't even see it coming.
Sorry for the long message...
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Old 02-08-2002, 07:49 PM   #9
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PuffCookie is right. If you have fat on top of muscle, you're not going to look "toned" and if you don't, you will look "ripped". The "toned vs. not" distinction might matter at the 3% bodyfat competition level, but otherwise, it's elementary.

Anyway, on to my main point. Every day is almost certainly too often for the same muscle. It varies for different people, sadly there's no easy solution, you're just going to have to do it for a while and see what works. I will say, for me, I get the best results from working each group once a week, that's right, once a week. That's longer than most people but not too unusual. Really, if you're not juicing, it's very easy to overtrain (work the muscle too often). If you are working out, and getting sore, but not gaining, suspect overtraining first.

Suggestion, a lot of people do a pushing : pulling workout. That means, for example, biceps & back (pulling) one day, and chest, tris, and some shoulders the next (pushing). And by the same token it's important to work bigger muscles first. You don't want to beat up your tri's doing tri work, and _then_ go on to do your chest, and you can't get a good chest workout because your tri's are worn out.

Erm... that's all I have. Good luck dude!

cheers
mbs
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Old 02-10-2002, 02:13 PM   #10
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hey guys I just wanted to say thanks
ehhee
this is very usefull
keith
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Old 02-10-2002, 05:36 PM   #11
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oh also, I just want to clarify somethjing.
I'm not trying to work out my legs every day by doing the bike, its just one of the few things I have access to, to do cardio work.
My main focus on my workouts are to burn fat, not really to bulk up. But I figure while I'm there, I might as well do some weight lifitng, so when I burn this fat, there is a nice muscle behind it

So, my goal.
To lose body fat.
then to tone up/build stamina (cuz I have NONE now).

knowing that, what would u say about my workout?
Also, what are other GOOD cardio things to do. The treadmill is a bitch to get to sometimes, cuz we only have 3 and there is always ppl on it.
the only things I think we have for cardio is
bikes, row machine (ahhaha thats mine, no one uses that execpt for me )
treadmil, and this thing that looks like ur running on it..I don't know how to explain it. Umm, the air runner or something?
I also walk about a 1/2-1 miles (each way) when going to the gym.
Help me out, if u were in my position what would u do.
I already changed my eating habbits as best I could (lots of salads and tuna fish, and fruit..good stuff), so what about the work out part.
Thanks beochs
Keith
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Old 02-11-2002, 12:01 AM   #12
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I'm an exercise physiologist; Go get Men's Health magazine....good diagrams on use of free weights.

So much has been said but Diet is always left out. Once you get that down on how to optimize what you eat to exercise, the rest is easy. Remember two words: Supply and demand. Talk to a registered Dietician first.

To build up stamina you need running and sprinting to tax the anaroebic metobolism which will raise your stamina over time.

To tone up, these will help along with weight training. It is more important to increase the heart rate during these types of exercises for a longer duration than lower heart rate for less time.

Intensity and duration are two other words or principles to remember. The higher these are the more stamina and muscle cut achieved. This will add to your strength which will add tone. It is a wholistic approach that you're after.
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Old 02-11-2002, 12:39 AM   #13
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Diet, I have taken that into account, and I have tried to eat low fat foods, and lots of salad/greens.
I have also been eating tuna....I hear that is supposed to be good (and it taste good also )

As for running, i'd love to do some running, but I had 6 knee operations, and running normally cause that to hurt.
So I try to avioid running, I can do skating though. They wont allow me to skate on the inside track (at the gym), so that is weather dependent also, so its kinda tough to do.
Thats why I do 25 mins on the bike, I thought that it might be a good medium between running and skating.
I think I'm going to try sprinting on the bike for 2 mins or so, on and off.
thanks for the input guys, keep it coming if u have anything to add
keith
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Old 02-11-2002, 10:01 PM   #14
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why get a 6-pack when you can have a keg (pats belly with satisfaction of knowing that i got the better deal)
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Old 02-11-2002, 10:01 PM   #15
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.
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Old 02-11-2002, 11:49 PM   #16
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Keith, what about swimming? Most pools open early so people can do laps. It's a good workout and it improves a life saving skill.
You should look into reading some nutrition books so you understand how the body uses protein, carbohydrates and lipids. Then you'll understand why foods, such as tuna, are "good" for you, especially while trying to gain muscle mass.
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Old 02-11-2002, 11:54 PM   #17
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Good info, thanks ppl. Here's the deal: I just started working out last week. Damn it feels good and I so badly need it. I am trying to loose fat while increasing stamina. The owners of the Gym wrote my plan for me.Thay are dieticians, trainers, certified in ...blah blah blah.

Some of the things they mentioned I see contridicted here, and am confused. I start off on the bike for 30 minutes which works up a great sweat, and do this to warm up. My heart rate is around 160-170 after 10 mins, and stays there the remaining 20. (Don't flame... I know it's sad.)
Quote:
2) Concerning biking, its really only effective if you do it for a short time at high intensity (sprints) or if you do it at low intensity for a really long time(20+miles). Short time, low intensity on a bike doesn't do very much.
Doesn't cardio depend on how long you maintain a "training" pulse?

So bike 5 days, and then weights after. I work chest biceps, triceps, calves, and on alternate days work quads, hams, lats, lower back. Does this sound right? I asked about stomach and was told not until upper muscles show, or else it will just push my fat to the side and make me wider. ????I guess it will take a while to see if it is working. In addition, my eating habits have changed and drink much more water. And does lifting help burn fat almost as much as cardio?

As the old man who wrote my program said: "Remember.... look at how many years it has taken to get your body in the shape it's in now...... it won't happen over night." Good way of looking at it.
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Old 02-12-2002, 05:36 PM   #18
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interested in this also..bump
keith
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Old 02-13-2002, 12:46 AM   #19
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First, cardio doesn't burn fat (well, very little). It burns carbohydrates. Weight lifting doesn't burn fat at all. It is an anaeorbic exercise (without oxygen) and relies on the body to convert sugars (carbohydrates) very quickly, in the absence of oxygen, to energy. This is why I said in an earlier post to do the weights first, then low intensity "cardio". The weights burn off the carbs and allow the cardio to dip into fat conversion quicker. Now, you're probably thinking, "How then do people get thin from doing cardio and weights?" The key is in caloric deficits. It's as simple as energy in vs energy out. If you maintain the same caloric input, but now all of a sudden you're burning an extra 600 calories a day due to working out, you will lose weight. The body, over time, will use fat stores to make up the deficit of energy. There are even diets, that work very well, that allow you to eat lots of fat. You eat fat and protein and little to know carbohydrates. If you're interested do a search on ketogenic diets. They require a lot of meal planning and pissing on keto sticks, but hey, you get to eat spoon fulls of peanut butter .
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Old 02-13-2002, 03:29 PM   #20
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Here's what seems to be working well for me:

Sunday: lower-body + abs resistance training
Monday: cardio (20 minutes of continuously varying intensity)
Tuesday: "front" upper-body (chest, biceps, shoulders, etc)
Wednesday: cardio (same as above)
Thursday: "back" upper-body (rows, lat pulls, triceps, etc)
Friday: cardio (same as above)

Working out on an empty stomach (and drinking water while you work out) is the best way to lose fat, while working out after you've eaten (or while drinking a sports drink) is probably the best way to build muscle. Your stomach is probably the emptiest in a day when you first wake up... so while it may not necessarily be fun to work out in the morning, you'll probably see the best results (since your main goal is to lose weight). As far as getting "toned"... lose fat and gain muscle, that's how you get toned. The more lean muscle mass you have, the more calories you burn just by having to "feed" them. Overall weight loss isn't important... % fat loss is.

The above is working well for me (and has worked in the past)... if you really want, I can post exercises/sets/reps/weights for you.

--jeff
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Old 02-13-2002, 03:45 PM   #21
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the keiths momz press always keeps me in shape!!
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Old 02-13-2002, 04:44 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Keith


knowing that, what would u say about my workout?
Also, what are other GOOD cardio things to do. The treadmill is a bitch to get to sometimes, cuz we only have 3 and there is always ppl on it.
the only things I think we have for cardio is
bikes, row machine (ahhaha thats mine, no one uses that execpt for me )
treadmil, and this thing that looks like ur running on it..I don't know how to explain it. Umm, the air runner or something?
that's probably the elliptical machine, aka the Precor machine. it's pretty much the best cardio workout you can do...it's weight-bearing (unlike biking), it's no-impact (unlike runing/walking/steppers), and it burns calories like a mofo -- i usually average about 16 cal/min during my workouts. (that's 960 cal/hr for you english majors). j/k. it IS a little weird at first, but you'll get used to it quickly.

i'll do that for about 40 mins before i lift. if i don't do that, i'll take a spinning class. which is also good, good stuff. much better than the regular bike -- you work harder b/c of the class, and it's more interesting besides.

i work out 3x a week...one day chest/tris, one day back/bis, one day shoulders. abs and cardio at every workout. i don't lift w/ my legs b/c the cardio workouts are usually at a slower pace w/ high resistance and bulky legs are a distance runner's death sentence. i work out w/ my buddy j and he lost about 15 pounds over the first two montsh we did it. 2 pounds a week is just about the right pace to lose weight. and yes, lifting weights will burn calories just as well as cardio, so long as you don't stand around bs-ing btw every set.

sorry this is so long...here's my advice.

IMPORTANT: since you just started working out, BE CAREFUL NOT TO OVERTRAIN. eeeeeease into a regular workout routine. you might feel like you're not doing much and that you could work harder at first, and you might feel stupid not pushing yourself very hard, but believe me, taking it real slow for the first 4-6 weeks will pay HUGE dividends later.

good luck man. keep us posted on your progress!
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Old 02-13-2002, 06:41 PM   #23
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Wow, you guys know a lot about fitness. What are your opinions on supplements, like creatine et. al.?

I, myself, have never had a workout routine in my life, I've always been a skinny guy with a high metabolism. If I were to want to build some muscle mass and regain stamina, what types of exercises should I look to do? High resistance, low reps, eat a meal before I workout? I think I will pick up Men's Health, if you guys think it's a good place for info and not just articles on a better sex life, etc.

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Old 02-13-2002, 09:38 PM   #24
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The below is aimed toward skinny guys and gals that want to gain muscle mass, not lose weight (though some of it certainly would apply, not necessarily all of it would for "bigger guys" that want to lose fat and gain muscle).

Creatine works, but you have to be doing enough exercise to warrant the "slightly faster recovery" that it gives you. I have some left over from when I was having back issues but played drums in marching band anyway... the doctor actually recommended it as a way to possibly be in a little less pain at the end of the day (since he couldn't get me to quit).

Eating a meal of equal portions protein and carbs about an hour before you work out would be my recommendation.

Make sure you work out your lower body too, not just your upper-body! Even if you think "my legs are fine"... you want them to grow in proportion to your upper body.

Also, make sure you work out opposing muscle groups equally (though not necessarily on the same day). One set of muscles (ie lower back) can only get so strong before you need for the opposing muscles (your abs) to get stronger to balance them out. There are some people who say this isn't true, but none of them that I've met in person are any stronger than me.

Make sure you don't undereat if your goal is to gain weight; if you're working out regularly (and you're always tired at the end of each workout -- not necessarily sore, but tired), you'll want to consume from 4,000 to 5,500 calories per day

And I'll echo the comments of not overtraining. You gain strength on the days you rest! Make sure each muscle group gets at least 2 days of rest before you exercise it again. Example:
Monday: upper-body
Tuesday: lower body
Wed: cardio
Thurs: upper-body
Friday: lower-body

and then switch the upper with lower and vice-versa for the next week.

As usual, I'm not a doctor and YMMV.

--jeff
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Old 02-13-2002, 11:03 PM   #25
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thanks for the helpful info. Many of it is still confusing to me, most of which is in the diet department. I know of people who swear a hi carb diet is the way to go and it worked for them, others swear to stay away from carbs. I think carbs and think spaghetti and other pasta. Bottom line: Burn more calories a day then you take in and lose weight (From what I know) so I am watching caloric intake, 30 mins on a bike burns around 230 calories....... much work to burn of that cup of yogert. I'd rather skip the yogert.) A few questions still unsure about.

Is keeping a journal of foods eaten a good idea?

Does a cardio workout help burn fat or not?

Does lifting weights burn many calories?

How many calories do you burn in a day w/o exercise sitting at a desk with no exersice?

Can one overtrain from cardio? I understand how and why overtraining from lifting happens, but is too much cardio harmful?

What is the best routine for losing fat?

thanks in advance.
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