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View Poll Results: All season: Proxes 4 or P-Zero Nero M+S?
Toyo Proxes 4 8 40.00%
Pirelli P-Zero Nero M+S 12 60.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-03-2008, 05:45 PM   #1
Linkseal
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Question Advice Needed: Which A/S tires, Proxes4 or P-Zero M+S?

Subies:

I have a hard time to decide which All seasons tires I should pick...upon my buget, I finally narrow down to two options:

Toyo Proxes4 - 235/40/18 95W - 23.4lb/tire

V.S

Pirelli P-Zero Nero M+S -235/40/18 91W - 25 lb/tire



My driving style:

City/highway, no tracking, maybe auto-x (BBS will be on by then), as you know they are all season, so I prefer excellent on dry, good on rain (good resist hydroplan) /wet snow. quiet, not too soft sidewall since sometimes I try cornering for fun. I would never drive when it snow hard like last month.

Both tires are at the same price around 1k now, and I hope to hear more members' preference and driving experience here.

P.S: After voting, please post as well to share your experience, that will be valuable to me. I'll appreciate your opinion.

Thank you!

-Link
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Last edited by Linkseal; 03-18-2008 at 09:52 PM. Reason: Typo!
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Old 03-03-2008, 06:02 PM   #2
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Although i cant compare the two, i'm running a set of Proxes4 in 245/40/17 and i can say that i'm not disappointed by them at all. They are definately not loud and pretty good in the wet (though they aren't T1S's by any means) and grippy in the dry. Driveable in the snow as long as you dont drive like youre Petter Solberg.
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Old 03-03-2008, 06:10 PM   #3
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^ That would be considered as luxury to me.... like others, I wish I should have summer and winter beater, but...my driving style should fit in A/S tires all year aorund I think.
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Old 03-03-2008, 07:15 PM   #4
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get the toyo T1R.....LOL or bridgestone RE01R

but for the two u ask......i say p-zero
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:18 PM   #5
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Whichever is cheaper.

I did a full year on Proxes4s and liked them, snow, rain, track, gravel.
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Old 03-03-2008, 09:42 PM   #6
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For our local weather I would pick the PNero Zero M+S.
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:10 PM   #7
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^ For the brand, both are good, and I was told Toyo ones are made in japan, and Pirelli ones, some of them are made in south America... anyway, want to hear more 2nd opinion...
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Old 03-03-2008, 11:10 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alvinli217 View Post
get the toyo T1R.....LOL or bridgestone RE01R

but for the two u ask......i say p-zero

Dont they have a new Proxes R1R?
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Old 03-04-2008, 04:25 PM   #9
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^ True...
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:47 PM   #10
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Still hard to decide!! >< Which A/S I should go for?

Interesting I found another similar poll on legacygt.com and ended up with totally seperate result as more people voted for Proxes 4 then Pzero Nero:

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1159&page=5

And I checked out Carbon888's similar thread http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...PZero+Proxes+4
but still getting nowhere...sigh...any thoughts?

Last edited by Linkseal; 03-18-2008 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 03-18-2008, 09:54 PM   #11
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FYI, here what I found from iwsti.com, and Ray_Sti is a STi driver who tried both Proxes 4 and Pzero Nero M&S...and weight of each tire and size updated!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_Sti View Post
Its Review time .. I've got a few requests for these so here goes...

Toyo Proxes 4 vs Pirelli PZero MS on a 05 STI

I've had the Proxes4 for about a year and almost 28000miles.

AWESOME grip.. near the stock REs. Wet traction and Light Snow is great too. Noise level is GREATLY reduced over stock.

The tread pattern definately make a statement about how much thought went into this tyre.

I recently changed to the Pirellis PZero MS. Out of the box.. WOW.. this thing is QUIET. I thought it couldnt get any quieter than the Toyos but i was definately mistaken. BUT as soon as you take the first hard corner.. you see the sacrifice that you just made.

Dry Traction: The dry grip is NO WHERE NEAR the Proxes4s. I was amazed as to how quickly these tires let go in dry. Analyzing the tread pattern revealed the obvious. this tyre was designed more for a cush ride than something that would grip the tarmac. Making things worse is the ROUNDED sidewalls that really hurt hard cornering. After driving my car hard for almost a year I finally experienced the dreaded understeer, even with upgraded sways front and rear. Where the Toyos would grip and pull me thru a corner, I find the Pirellis scrambling to find grip.

From my girl: "These new ones dont give u the confidence AT ALL during sudden direction changes. I can feel the grip is there but it takes a while to build the confidence. The Toyos were so much more communicative during sudden direction changes, overtaking at speed etc. "

The difference between the dry traction of the Pirellis and the Toyos is DAY and NIGHT.

Wet Traction: This seems to be a viewpoint question. I personally felt the car is a bit more composed in the rain with the Pirellis. The diffence is hardly noticable to a normal person, but to an enthusiast, its definately a small step up. However my gf who drives it to work every day feels the Toyo's were more communicative in the rain.The thing we both agree on the fact that the Pirelli's Rounded sidewalls are not the best thing to have on a cornering machine: DRY or WET. It seems that the Pirellis are designed for the BMW 5s and 3s. Its for people who 'think' they have a fast car, but would never corner at 70mph, and want a CUSHY COMFTY ride with a decent level of grip (Dry and wet).

SNOW is right around the corner, so lets see how these perform then. Analyzing the tread pattern, i think these would definately provide more grip in the snow, but then again, I was pretty satisfied with the Grip of the Toyos.[/b]

Last edited by Linkseal; 03-18-2008 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:09 PM   #12
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Nokian WR
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youthanasia View Post
Nokian WR
I have that. It is great for the rain and snow, but I would not consider that for any kind of performance driving.

Just have 2+ set of wheels. Get a set with some Hankook R-S2 for the summer, and run the WR for the other 11 months
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:03 PM   #14
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i use to have the p zero's in 253-40-18.....quiet and have soft side walls. I would not put all seasons on an STI! But if you have to pick between the two i would go with the
toyos. Go with 2 sets of tires, then you can have snows and agressive summers for an agressive car!
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:51 PM   #15
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^ That is what I am thinking here... I am leaning towards Toyo...
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:55 PM   #16
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I have experience with both tires, had the Toyo on my 04 WRX wagon, love it. Also have the P-Zero as well, its P-Zero good on dry and decent on wet and loose surface (gravel) but absolutely suck in snow.

Hope it helps

Ted
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:08 PM   #17
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^ Ted Thank you for your info. Now here is the thing really confused me.

I believe, when I look at the tread pattern on Pzero Nero, I think it should be better in Dry
also, when I look at the tread pattern on Toyo P4, I think it will work well in wet and snow..

However, from most of the review and comparison I searched last whole week, Pzero is quiet for sure, comfty on hwy and cruising, but soft sidewall and it hurts in cornering and dry gripping...on the other hand, Toyo is tested with better dry grip than Pzero, maybe toyo P4 has harder sidwall, or lighter ?! and also perform better in wet and snow...3

Ted could you talk more about the dry performance inbetween Toyo P4 and Pzero m+s please? it will help more ^^

The only thing I am concerning right now is, toyo has lighter weight, and better performance based on other subies' review. but, to be honest, I am a Fan sucker somehow and I haven't heard bad stuff about Pirelli dough...
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Old 03-19-2008, 06:58 PM   #18
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I have the P-Zero's and I would NOT recommend them. They wander quite a bit - especially compared to my Nokian WRs and even my previous 'High Performance A/S' - Falken Ziex 512s.

Can't speak for the the Proxes though.

Edit: The wandering is annoying yes...but they perform quite well in the rain and dry...no complaints there.
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:04 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minifreak View Post
I have that. It is great for the rain and snow, but I would not consider that for any kind of performance driving.

Just have 2+ set of wheels. Get a set with some Hankook R-S2 for the summer, and run the WR for the other 11 months
Yes, but performance all-season's are a bit of a misnomer as well. At least, the WR's would give you decent traction on snow... better than the two tires above. I have them on my Odyssey and I love them. But for my suby, I have separate snows and summers.
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Old 03-20-2008, 04:33 AM   #20
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I think you will be ok with either of the selected tires. I wouldn't even think about factoring in their weight. I've had Proxes 4's and I liked them.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:35 AM   #21
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I was lucky to have both tires in the on the same setup so it was able to give me some true comparison.

I think you petty much nail it right on, the Toyo's side wall does feel stiffer, however, both tires grap fairly well in both dry and wet weather, performance is very similar and grap is consistant, but I find the Toyo scream more often tho, both are quiet compare to my other all season performance tire I have used. If you are going with 45 series tires, I don't think the tire wall softness is noticable.

Both tires will most likely in the bottom of list when it comes to snow performance, the Toyo is manageable, with the P-Zero in absolute dead last. I don't know how much time or you will spend any time on loose surface (gravel, etc), I find both tires are decent with the Toyo graps a bit quicker, may due to the tread pattern.

I also just recently purchase a set of Falken Ziex912 for the ix, rather disappointed , except it is cheap. If you are considering this price range, go with the old Ziex512 if you can find them.

Oh, one more thing, the Toyo do wear out faster.

Hope it helps

Ted
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:51 PM   #22
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^Great Info, after reading your review, I am actually rethinking about PZero ^^"...
I am not driving around if it snows outside, well, I might drive our once a while if slush or wet snow for shopping...but great info.

Update: 235/4018 PZero is out of stock and need to back order. So If I pick Pzero then will go for 245/40/18, rim is 18x8.5 so should be ok, but one think I need to consider is whether 245/40/18 will rub my rear end fender, imagine 2 people sitting in the back...and that size Pzero weighted 26lb/tire...><

My thread with more info for 245/40 roll rear fender:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1471181

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linkseal View Post
Hi,

I have been told that 235/40/18 is the safest tire size for 18" wheel upgrade if your ride is lowered. I have a deal to a set 245/40/18 PZero Nero M+S now. (I know a lot of people blaming on A/S, as I live at Vancouver, Canada, we have 200+ days in raining a year here), but I am not sure if they will fit on my lowered STi, with a set of 18x8.5 wheels.

To be honest I am not a tire/wheel tech guy, and I am worried about 245/40 will be too tall, or too wide for 18x8.5 wheel on lowered STi? I am a daily driver, and I don't want to have my rear fender rolling...

So I'm just wondering does anyone know if 245/40-18 A/S on 18x8.5 on a lowered STi, I hope some can give me second opinions or experience, so I can decide to go for it, Or to source another 235/40/18 set of tires. I will appreciate your thoughts in advance.


I try to provide as much as info here:

My Suby: 2005 STi

Suspension Setup: Stock STi struts, Stock tophats, Espelir ASD springs; For ASD springs they drop F: 35mm (1.4") R: 20mm (0.8")
Spring Rate F: 4.5K R: 3.5K
Camber Setting: F: - 1.3 R: -1.5

Wheels : Rays Gram Lights 57F
Size: 18x8.5"
Offet: +45

Pic of my car right now, with stock BBS w/ RE070.
(Fender gap: 2.5 fingers in front, and 1~1.5 fingers in back)


Thank you for your help!

-Link

Last edited by Linkseal; 03-23-2008 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 03-23-2008, 06:17 AM   #23
Linkseal
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Problem solved! Thank you for the post guys, will go for 235/40/18 Toyo P4 after comparing the prices, reviews, tire weights and members' experience.

Will post pics when the tires and rims on...

Mod please close this thread!
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Old 03-23-2008, 06:20 AM   #24
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