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Old 01-19-2010, 05:38 PM   #76
jetski247
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just bringing this back up, since i have my intake manifold off cuz of leaky fuel lines.

seems that the parallel fuel mod works if the lines are kept the same length?

scubie compensates for this in the ecu if you keep the factory fuel route?

am i reading all this right?

i was just fixin to slap mine back together.
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:32 PM   #77
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el bumpo
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Old 01-21-2010, 09:55 PM   #78
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The ECU has per-injector fueling adjustments. I decided to stay with the factory routing when I had my manifold off. Even though I had already bought the necessary fittings to go parallel.

It might be sufficient to zero out the per-injector tables if you go parallel, but it might not. I'd really like to see 4-channel EGT logs from before and after the parallel conversion. Without that, we can only speculate.
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Old 01-22-2010, 09:07 AM   #79
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that is true......and a very good point. i guess no one has done this yet?

and being dyno tuned already with the stock fuel route, i wonder if changing it, if it would change the flow characteristics of the injectors?

i do get a cold stumble out of the scubie if i dont let it warm up enough, feels like its choked or lean and surges until it warms up, i wonder if its just the tgv's or lack of fuel as in the fuel lines aren't primed up yet?

maybe the stock driver side rail has larger flow than the passanger side to split the fuel flow better?
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Old 01-22-2010, 07:56 PM   #80
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My guess is that there would be no net AFR change, but individual cylinders may get slightly richer or leaner at some RPM/IPW ranges. The stock per-injector tables don't make much sense really, so I'm not going to make any real predictions other than 'stuff might change.'

It could all be negligible, but until someone actually measures there's no way to know.

Last edited by NSFW; 01-22-2010 at 08:04 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 02-03-2010, 11:27 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
I thought it was a good idea, but it is actually a bad idea (your pics are exactly what I did). I don't think it would cause a motor to pop right away, but on throttle transitions, one bank is gonna go lean and the other rich causing a short EGT spike. Keep on driving and your coolant temps just rise and rise. It is very noticeable in the Texas heat here, especially with ym front mount and the stock radiator. My coolant temps got up to 220 or so max and I didn't like that. The EGT spikes are short, but over time it would probably cause damage.
Just to let you all know, the EGT spikes are gone now with Agency Power rails, but those did not help until I figured out my WG was partially open the whole time causing the EGTs to spike. That's gone now with a Forge Actuator.

Still would be cool to measure each cylinder AFR (I have the comp tables 0'd).
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:45 AM   #82
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Gabe, are the Agency rails copies of APS rails?
If so, I've looked into APS rails, they come with steel braided pressure hoses. But even those are not of equal length.

So you now have zeroed out the compensation tables and are running APS style rails with sonewhat unequal hoses and everything seems to be fine?

What bothers me is that APS describes them as equal flow, maybe the internal diameters somehow compensate?



Shown in this photo are APS topfeed rails, the sidefeeds look different, but similar hoses.

Last edited by Vlad; 02-04-2010 at 07:52 AM.
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Old 02-04-2010, 07:48 AM   #83
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About the actuator, what spring pressure are you using, vs the boost you're running?
I'm using 11 for 19 and think I have to go to 14 for 19, because stock is 9 for 14.
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Old 02-04-2010, 09:07 AM   #84
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Vlad, the AP rails have equal length -6AN lines and nice rails. They are more like the TXS rails.

I got the 14-18 PSI spring. I see 14 PSI when its hot out or when the engine bay gets really hot (only happens when it is above 70) and it spikes to 22-23 PSI in freezing weather tapers to 14-18 at redline. Spools like mad.

Last edited by gabedude; 02-17-2010 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 03-18-2010, 05:18 PM   #85
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I took the time to do this mod along with TGVs while I had the manifold off.

It was a fun project and a definite learning experience. I never really noticed a difference myself and my logs never changed significantly.

I would warn anyone who does this however to check the seal on your fuel lines 2-3...hell maybe 4 times - because having a fuel line spray gas all over your engine at high speed on a freeway is not fun
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:10 PM   #86
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Summit sells a 5/16" barb tee that is for nitrous applications. Would this work in lieu of the NPT tees and 3 Hose barbs? It would def look much cleaner.... Also.. anyone tried running SS braided lines.... would there be room for all the hose ends & fittings?

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Old 05-25-2010, 04:38 PM   #87
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Yes it would work and be much cleaner. In fact, I am about to buy a -6an to 5/16" barb fitting as I am using AN lines with old style Perrin rails. I need it to plumb back into the 5/16" feed line. The return line goes through the stock FPR so I am good there.

My L will use the stock rails and rubber hose, and of course the 5/16" Tees that you are talking about.

Last edited by aboothman; 05-25-2010 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:44 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urabus its 40 View Post
Summit sells a 5/16" barb tee that is for nitrous applications. Would this work in lieu of the NPT tees and 3 Hose barbs? It would def look much cleaner.... Also.. anyone tried running SS braided lines.... would there be room for all the hose ends & fittings?

Thanks
They sell these at autozone in a pack of three assorted for $7, I was looking for these yesterday. I really wanted a Y fitting because it would promote better flow. Speaking of flow, The little T's you and I are talking about have a tiny ID. I'm thinkning I am going to get the actual NPT T fitting and get barbs for it because it has a much wider ID than those little barbed T's do. I'm not sure if I am being way to pickey, It was just my observation.
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:32 PM   #89
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Another thing i was curious about... the equal length talk. The word "after" isnt always clear when talkin about something with feed and supply. Are the parts that are to be equal the supply side lines AFTER the T to the rails, and the return side line from the rails to BEFORE the T? Do the supply line between the T and check valve and return lines from check valve to the T matter on length?
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:35 PM   #90
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I would play it safe and keep everything equal. By check valve I assume you mean the Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR?)

In theory the length after the rails does matter, as the side with the shortest return line will build pressure quicker than the longer line.
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Old 05-25-2010, 10:40 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
Just an update. Make sure to use equal length line after the T-s if you do this. I reused the stock hard lines and ended up going lean on one bank and rich on the other causing high EGT spikes and rising coolant temps during throttle transition. So to do it right, make sure your feed and return lines going to each rail are equal length (which means do not re-use any of the stock hardlines). I would recommend not using soft line either, use -6 AN lines if you can or just the steel braided hose and bard fittings.

I don't want to remove the manifold again, so I am just buying rails (the new design of the AP rails which are much like TXS rails).

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...2&postcount=43


Quote:
Originally Posted by gabedude View Post
No, the length does not matter as much as having the fuel lines to each bank after the Ts be of equal length (the returns have to be equal and the feeds have to be equal).
quotes for relevance
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:23 PM   #92
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I am doing this aswell just waiting for a new motor.

One thing I want to ask though, Has anyone had a problem with the OP's setup?

Out of all the setup's that have been discused it looks to me like the OP's setup is the best if you dont want or need to buy new rails. AND as long as you keep the line from getting pinched.
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Old 08-06-2010, 05:57 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSTi-wa View Post
I am doing this aswell just waiting for a new motor.

One thing I want to ask though, Has anyone had a problem with the OP's setup?

Out of all the setup's that have been discused it looks to me like the OP's setup is the best if you dont want or need to buy new rails. AND as long as you keep the line from getting pinched.
The only things I would say are missing;

- Do NOT underestimate how long this will take, give yourself an ENTIRE weekend (it may take less than that...but you'd rather have time to spare trust me - I rushed the finish and cleanup of the mod and one of the hose adapters slipped off...bad smell + I smoke = very bad possibilities AND I had to re-remove and re-install the intake manifold to fix it)

- Re check ALL connections again....and again....and again....and maybe even again if you feel its necessary before you put the assembly back on the engine and bolt it up.

- Do whatever you have to, to make absolutely sure the hose > FPR adapter connection is solid and as permanent as possible (JB weld + fuel line clamp + follow jB weld directions to the letter = success for me)

- get proper fuel line clamps, do not use worm gear type hose clamps, or cheapy-plastic-T-handle style ones either....use the 5/16" Fuel line clamps ONLY (the ones that have an overlapping metal tab to ensure even pressure and no pinching)




....oh don't forget a cooler, lots of ice, and <insert beer>
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Old 08-07-2010, 07:29 AM   #94
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Well the only reason I thought I would give this a shot is because of the fact that I already have everything out of the car so that wont be a problem at all haha.

BUT I forgot to ask this, what is the difference between NIP and NPT? I went to lowes and all I could find was NIP tee's. Are they ok to use? Also wouldn't it be a good idea to use some sort of teflon tape on the threads aswell? Or was that what you were refering usng the JB weld for Xdarkn3ss, to seal the threads?
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Old 08-08-2010, 03:44 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NWSTi-wa View Post
Well the only reason I thought I would give this a shot is because of the fact that I already have everything out of the car so that wont be a problem at all haha.

BUT I forgot to ask this, what is the difference between NIP and NPT? I went to lowes and all I could find was NIP tee's. Are they ok to use? Also wouldn't it be a good idea to use some sort of teflon tape on the threads aswell? Or was that what you were refering usng the JB weld for Xdarkn3ss, to seal the threads?
Personally I found every single thing I used in this project (aside from the gaskets for the intake mani and the FPR adapter) at ACE and thus would recommend them for the pipe fittings definitely but Lowes should have the right T's. But to answer your first Q - I don't think it's gonna matter as long as the inner diameter matches size (5/16") and they are brass.

If you're referring to using teflon tape on the barbed fittings' threaded attachment to the T piece - definitely use teflon tape.

Actually what I was referring to when I mentioned JB weld was the Fuel Pressure Regular connection.



In the pic above the FPR is bolted to a spot on the drivers side of the intake mani. - although this isn't where I mounted mine I still had to run new hoses for the FPR cuz with this mod you cannot mount it to the stock location. What you end up doing is having to put a hose over the oddly shaped protruding end of the FPR (which is a BIT bigger than 5/16") and since that connector is not very long and has an o-ring on the outside it wants to slip out of the hose - so what I did to solve the issue was lightly apply some JB weld to the connector on the FPR - slip the hose over the end, crank the S*** out of the fuel line clamp - then liberally apply JB weld around the edge of the hose>FPR connection.

That all sounds very complicated but once you see what I'm talking about it'll make sense.
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Old 08-23-2010, 05:23 AM   #96
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Thanks for the help xdarkn3ss! Got it all done with the JB weld and it sealed nicely with no leaks so far. This mod = best bang for the buck out of all my mods so far, glad I did this one
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:50 AM   #97
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Sorry to bring this back from the dead. I need to know how the 05 LGT fuel pressure is regulated, I'm doing a swap into my bugeye and can't figure out how the pressure is regulated, the rails have 2 (one on each rail) what looks to be FPRs but there is no vacuum in for them so I'm stumped, can anyone explain or sugest how I should hook up the fuel and whether I need an aftermarket FPR for the setup.

Thanks
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Old 12-18-2010, 01:17 PM   #98
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I am not familiar with those, but if what you say is true then I would recommend using some WRX fuel rails. You can find stock rails pretty cheap.
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Old 12-18-2010, 02:41 PM   #99
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The 05 LGT regulator is mounted on the driver-side strut tower, connected to the fuel rails via rubber hose, which runs from the FPR to hardlines that come up through the intake manifold.

So, if you just have the fuel rails, you don't have the FPR.
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Old 12-19-2010, 01:40 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NSFW View Post
The 05 LGT regulator is mounted on the driver-side strut tower, connected to the fuel rails via rubber hose, which runs from the FPR to hardlines that come up through the intake manifold.

So, if you just have the fuel rails, you don't have the FPR.
Thank you so much exactly what I was thinking. So time for aftermarket adjustable FPR woooohooo spend more money. So what are those things on the rails? Fuel dampers?
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