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Old 03-03-2008, 09:24 PM   #1
2gnt2wrx
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Default Problem with keeping LC-1 wideband calibrated

I'm having a problem keeping my wideband calibrated. It will calibrate and read correctly the first time you start the car. But upon the second start the gauge starts reading 22 in vacuum and 7 when on the gas. So far I've reset the sensor and gauge twice took the car out ran logs just fine. But when i restart the car later I get the 22 7. Any input is appreciated.
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:16 AM   #2
williaty
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OK, crash course in LC-1 triage to make sure you have a real problem:

1) Remove the sensor from the pipe it's in, letting it hang in free-air
2) Use LM Programmer to tell the LC-1 to reset calibration
3) The LC-1 will now do a heater cal and a sensor cal
4) Use LogWorks2 to check the signal the LC-1 is putting out. LogWorks should show it saying about 20.8% O2. If the readout is in AFR or isn't near 20.8%, you have a problem
5) Use LM Programmer to set the fuel type back to Gasoline
6) Re-install sensor in pipe
7) Log in application of choice.

If these steps don't result in the LC-1 functioning properly, it's time to get on the phone to Innovate.
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:56 PM   #3
2gnt2wrx
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I'm not having a problem calibrating it, I'm having a problem with the unit keeping Calibration. We've installed it 3 times 3 different ways, the latest install includes a relay so the power comes directly from the battery so there is no excuse for voltage drop. With the relay setup it lasted about 5-6 startups before dropping calibration which is a far cry from the 1-2 startups before. I've now decided to send it back. It sucks because i need it for my new water meth setup.
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Old 03-30-2008, 03:59 PM   #4
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Are you logging with a laptop?

I was nuking my calibration by plugging/unplugging the serial cable from the LC-1 to the laptop while the car was on. This causes the LC-1 to lose its calibration. You absolute MUST have the LC-1 off to connect or disconnect the laptop.
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Old 03-30-2008, 04:33 PM   #5
2gnt2wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Are you logging with a laptop?

I was nuking my calibration by plugging/unplugging the serial cable from the LC-1 to the laptop while the car was on. This causes the LC-1 to lose its calibration. You absolute MUST have the LC-1 off to connect or disconnect the laptop.
It was off, when plugging in and unplugging. After we ran logs i started and drove to the store with it still calibrated. Then we went to start the car when we got back and it went out of cal.
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Old 03-30-2008, 04:54 PM   #6
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I'm the one who installed it on his car... We have entertained all suggestions by people (including their forums).

1. Ran dedicated ground DIRECTLY to engine block.
2. All connections are soldered and heat shrinked.
3. After it was suggested that the switched power that the unit was using was 'dirty', we ran the power DIRECTLY to the battery via a relay. We use the switched power from his stereo to activate a 30A Bosch-style relay, thus feeding power directly to the unit.

In my opinion, they didn't handle the calibration routine right. It leaves too much room for error. Their routine appears to look on power-up for the last power-up sequence result. If on the last power-up, the O2 WAS NOT found, then it proceeds with calibration. If it indeed works this way, it absolutely needs to change. This car has a good battery and the LC-1 is running the newest firmware. While he DOES have the ability to calibrate with the switch, the LC-1 will still respond to the 'old fasioned' method of 'thinking' the stupid sensor is not there.

I'm unsure on why they didn't include a switch in their base (no gauge) kit to FORCE calibration when the user wants to. I'm almost comical about suggesting a dedicated gel-cell for the LC-1. The place he purchased it from hasn't been the best, and the Innovative forums are full of people complaining about it losing calibration.

I'm not a wideband 'guru', but it seems odd that they even require a calibration to 'fresh air'. The content of oxygen (%) does not change any where on the planet (unless you are in a bar/volcano/fart infested frat house). Why don't they hard-code this value? My Turbo Jetta had a factory Bosch wideband and I didn't have to recalibrate it at every oil change. It just worked. The only thing that they would need to add is a baro sensor to compensate for the change.

http://www.apogee-inst.com/pdf_files...alpressure.pdf


Eric

Last edited by Obsessive; 03-30-2008 at 09:00 PM.
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Old 03-30-2008, 11:59 PM   #7
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The percent O2 in air doesn't change meaninfully, however, the response of a given sensor to O2 might change over its lifetime in response to wear, contamination, etc. Basically, the calibration is just accounting for variance at the hardware level. It's just a way of getting greater accuracy out of the system.

As far as the problem you're having, all I can say is that there's 5 of us that come to our local subie club weekly meets and NONE of us are having this issue. Since you've been through multiple LC-1s, it would be incredibly improbable that you've had multiple bad units. It's either the car or the install that's suspect.
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Old 03-31-2008, 12:32 AM   #8
2gnt2wrx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
The percent O2 in air doesn't change meaninfully, however, the response of a given sensor to O2 might change over its lifetime in response to wear, contamination, etc. Basically, the calibration is just accounting for variance at the hardware level. It's just a way of getting greater accuracy out of the system.

As far as the problem you're having, all I can say is that there's 5 of us that come to our local subie club weekly meets and NONE of us are having this issue. Since you've been through multiple LC-1s, it would be incredibly improbable that you've had multiple bad units. It's either the car or the install that's suspect.
Its the SAME LC-1 installed 4 different ways, If you checkout Innovates forums everyone that just bought one is having issues. There are like 5 new thread a day about calibration issues from new units in various cars. There is no way that we have installed this POS wrong 4 times in a row. E/Obsessive has an electronics degree to add to his credentials. http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...splay.php?f=10

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...ead.php?t=8328
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:11 AM   #9
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Oh, I thought you had meant you'd sent it in and had it replaced multiple times
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Old 03-31-2008, 01:37 AM   #10
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I'm gonna try to get my money back and get something else, I can't trust my engine to a flaky wideband, especially now with water/meth.
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