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Old 09-10-2008, 08:38 PM   #76
watchunglava
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Have it? Yo I'm running it! And have logs
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Old 09-11-2008, 02:26 PM   #77
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I have an 07 2.5i and need the map also. I can't make the link from OP work. "File deleted?"
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Old 09-12-2008, 12:26 AM   #78
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Holy crap!
I have the exhaust same mods as the OP.. besides the magnaflow, I have the Espelir JGT500..
Would love to take a look at this.
I've NEVER, touched on tuning AT ALL. Wheres a good place to start?
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Old 09-12-2008, 07:50 PM   #79
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Nobody has a copy of this map?

watchunglava, you said you're running it. Did you get tuned, or did you use that map?
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Old 09-12-2008, 08:16 PM   #80
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i have the Master2192 maps for an 07 2.5i manual trans only. Dont know which ECU differences there are between the MT and AT but there are some that are significant, I know that. If you would like them, please PM me. dont forget to include your email as i cant attach files on the nasioc message service. It will be a WinRAR zipped file. please be patient as I will be out of town this weekend for a mountain bike race and dont frequent this board daily, but i try to. tuesday-wed at the latest. also, keep in mind, these are not good to go maps for anyone with an intake and headers/exhaust, so use them at your own risk and with extreme caution. 99% of you will require some additional tweaks to make it best for your vehicle. EVEN if you have the same exact mods as the tuner vehicle. I havnt looked at these maps in depth, but im almost positive that they are tuned for a high octane fuel, at least 91, probably 93-94. good luck
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Old 09-12-2008, 08:21 PM   #81
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im rockin the master map its sweet. read the entire thread
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Old 09-12-2008, 09:22 PM   #82
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Watchunglava - not useful if you don't share.
Are you running 89, 91, or 93 octane? Can you send me your logs?

RaceFace, thanks! That's a damn plethora of maps. I'll post up if i find something interesting.
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:01 PM   #83
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the map was made for 87 . you a good tuner sniper ? cause i suck and would love to have this map tweeked. nasioc wont let me post attatchments i think cause i get warned so much or something. i do live like an hour away. mabe two depending on where in ma . you ever go to the boston meets?
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Old 09-12-2008, 11:12 PM   #84
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87, eh? sweet.

Looking at the maps, this was done mainly for throttle response and a bit more pep at high loads and low/mid RPM (IE, it was made for when you stomp on it from a roll). Right?

Also, have you run the maps with the flattened throttle? I'm curious as to it's fidelity at wide throttle angles (does it feel like it runs out of go at ~60% throttle?).



No, i'm not a good tuner. I'm a pretty good engineer, though i say it myself, but this is my first foray into engine management.




And please excuse the profile, i live in minnesota for the winter.



EDIT: What do you want changed? I can certainly try to learn how, but i don't think i'll be touching any of the fueling/timing for now.
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Old 09-13-2008, 12:59 AM   #85
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Guys, for the love of god, you need to realize that you can't just share custom tunes like you're all excited about. For one thing, the ROMs are different from car to car. If you've got an early 06 and they've got a mid 07, there's no guarantee that your car will even start if you flash their map. Beyond that, you have no way of knowing what internal changes Subaru may have made to the engine. For all you know, that map that runs fine on his car will cause yours to die. Finally, there are significant car-to-car variations. A map that is perfectly safe on Car A may cause Car B to grenade. There's only two ways to safely flash your engine: 1) get it custom tuned by an experienced tuner 2) pull your own ROM, spend a couple of months learning tuning theory, and then carefully tune if yourself.
Basically, if you want to get some advice on a specific tuning issue post and say "I identified this issue. Here are some logs demonstrating it. How have you all solved this issue?" At that point, take the theory the other person used to solve the problem and apply it to your car. DON'T USE THEIR EXACT NUMBERS!


If you all keep running around stupid, one of you WILL eventually blow an engine and it'll be your own dumbass fault.

The only way you can potentially share ROMs is if the tune is a "staged" map tuned to account for the worst possible condition your car could be in. I promise you, on 99% of the cars you flash that generic map into, it'll run worse than stock. NA's aren't like turbos guys.
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Old 09-13-2008, 01:03 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
On a side note: Why does the stock map appear to be WOT, depending on the conditions, with as little as 35% on the TPS?
I'm assuming you mean pedal sensor, not throttle sensor for this answer...

Without looking at your specific ROM, I can only make a pretty good guess at what's going on. First of all, read my article on DBW tuning. You'll see that they "pump up" the throttle response to make the car feel more sporty. Additionally, there's multiple DBW input and output tables in the ROM. This is how the fancy-pants cars do SI-Drive. All the "Sport Sharp" mode does is open the throttle too damned fast to be useful to make you feel like a hero. Similarly, the Economy mode leaves you unable to floor it. All of the 32bit ROMs that I've looked at have had multiple maps. However, without a button to switch between them, the cheap cars just only use one. If you saw one that went to 100% throttle opening at 35% pedal angle, my guess is that you looked at the unused "Sport Sharp" table.
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Old 09-13-2008, 01:10 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Guys, for the love of god, you need to realize that you can't just share custom tunes like you're all excited about. For one thing, the ROMs are different from car to car. If you've got an early 06 and they've got a mid 07, there's no guarantee that your car will even start if you flash their map. Beyond that, you have no way of knowing what internal changes Subaru may have made to the engine. For all you know, that map that runs fine on his car will cause yours to die. Finally, there are significant car-to-car variations. A map that is perfectly safe on Car A may cause Car B to grenade. There's only two ways to safely flash your engine: 1) get it custom tuned by an experienced tuner 2) pull your own ROM, spend a couple of months learning tuning theory, and then carefully tune if yourself.
Basically, if you want to get some advice on a specific tuning issue post and say "I identified this issue. Here are some logs demonstrating it. How have you all solved this issue?" At that point, take the theory the other person used to solve the problem and apply it to your car. DON'T USE THEIR EXACT NUMBERS!


If you all keep running around stupid, one of you WILL eventually blow an engine and it'll be your own dumbass fault.

The only way you can potentially share ROMs is if the tune is a "staged" map tuned to account for the worst possible condition your car could be in. I promise you, on 99% of the cars you flash that generic map into, it'll run worse than stock. NA's aren't like turbos guys.

wility knows his shoot. i have an 07 but bought it in 06 . this guys map worked great for me . and after logging i have no knock or anything. and it appears that i can push it even further at points because the computer is still advancing the timing at points. in saying that my has never felt better. im allmost finished changing every single bushing on the suspension and gear shifter . feels groovy!!!!!

anway wility dude why dont you write me a nice map . maybe we can work something out . id love to have a map for my stock rom. your the man at this dude dont you see that no one else knows wtf your talking about!!! haha and when you finnally get a little clue ou blow it out of the water !!!!!! dude write me a map!!!!!!!
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Old 09-13-2008, 01:13 AM   #88
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Watchung, you went the lucky way. The car that map came from obviously was more knock prone than yours, so you got off safely (though without making as much power as you could). However, imagine if it had gone the other way. The tuner made the map for your car and then you gave it to the other guy. The tune that's totally safe on your knock-resistant engine would have caused his knock-prone engine to grenade. That's the problem, you just never know what you're going to get.

I'm not willing to tune other people's cars because of the legal liability. However, I'm willing to discuss any aspect of tuning theory with anyone who starts a thread.
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Old 09-13-2008, 07:51 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Guys, for the love of god, you need to realize that you can't just share custom tunes like you're all excited about. For one thing, the ROMs are different from car to car. If you've got an early 06 and they've got a mid 07, there's no guarantee that your car will even start if you flash their map. Beyond that, you have no way of knowing what internal changes Subaru may have made to the engine. For all you know, that map that runs fine on his car will cause yours to die. Finally, there are significant car-to-car variations. A map that is perfectly safe on Car A may cause Car B to grenade. There's only two ways to safely flash your engine: 1) get it custom tuned by an experienced tuner 2) pull your own ROM, spend a couple of months learning tuning theory, and then carefully tune if yourself.
Basically, if you want to get some advice on a specific tuning issue post and say "I identified this issue. Here are some logs demonstrating it. How have you all solved this issue?" At that point, take the theory the other person used to solve the problem and apply it to your car. DON'T USE THEIR EXACT NUMBERS!


If you all keep running around stupid, one of you WILL eventually blow an engine and it'll be your own dumbass fault.

The only way you can potentially share ROMs is if the tune is a "staged" map tuned to account for the worst possible condition your car could be in. I promise you, on 99% of the cars you flash that generic map into, it'll run worse than stock. NA's aren't like turbos guys.
Williaty said it better but this is what i was getting at when i said that these maps are not good-to-go and to use at your own risk, etc etc. Im all about sharing them and studying them to see what changes were made and understanding why, but if you just flash it to your ECU and go, you are rolling the dice. not a good idea. and watchunglava, these have got to be maps for 91-93 octane at least. there is some significant timing added in a couple places. the stock rom is already "over timed" for 87 to be honest.
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Old 09-13-2008, 09:33 AM   #90
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Williaty:

Believe me, i'm not planning on using these maps. I just wanted to look at them, to see what he did and how. I'm excited because i was sent several revisions of the maps, so i get to see the changes in sequence. The fact that it's the same basic car is just a plus, because it makes the theory more directly applicable.

Could i have a link to your article? And, for that matter, anything else you might have handy that i should look at?

Regarding the throttle - i was confusing myself with the target throttle plate map. The "requested torque" map is much more linear with pedal angle. my bad. Should both of these maps be retuned with power adders, so the "requested torque" and "target throttle plate position by requested torque" maps match up with actual available output?




RaceFace: when i was looking at the maps last night, i noted the most of the timing i noticed was at mid/high load and low/mid RPM, where the rest of the map was relatively unchanged. Wouldn't the advance in these ranges be limited primarily by the position of the piston, rather than the octane of the fuel?

That is to say, because the relative speed of the flame front is so high compared to the speed of the piston, only minimal changes in timing will be available with a given increase in knock resistance, and large changes would be available with extra fuel or mis-timing to begin with (the second being unlikely). As we discussed, it looks like his primary goal was more to richen the car up earlier to promote a more eager engine, trading off fuel economy. This could be done without a change in octane, IMO. It's also a more realistic goal, since the compression isn't available to really take advantage of high octane fuel, and the stock ecu is already timed to the max, but for fuel economy.

Last edited by sniper1rfa; 09-13-2008 at 09:44 AM.
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Old 09-13-2008, 10:20 AM   #91
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i have run this car on 87 but ussually run it on 91 , and it does feel better when i do. there were two threads dealing with masters map. the first accually had input from master and he claimed he made these maps for 87 octane. that thread is like unfindable .it was called like 2.5i 87 octane map or something.

(postion of piston) i swear to god i ran this very impreza with the spark plug wires 3 and 4 switched for like 6 months without even knowing it! no code no nothing . except the smallest bit of bucking at low low revs like revs that are never seen.

i definatly lucked out!!!!! this map feels awesome on my ride though, and on my ride at least can be tuned out even further in spots.

fuel economy has suffered greatly with this map but that could have been from the plug wire too! we will see.
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Old 09-13-2008, 10:31 AM   #92
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:06 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watchunglava View Post
(postion of piston) i swear to god i ran this very impreza with the spark plug wires 3 and 4 switched for like 6 months without even knowing it! no code no nothing . except the smallest bit of bucking at low low revs like revs that are never seen.

Certainly possible if these cars are wasted spark ignitions. If you flip the correct pair of wires, nothing will happen, since both plugs are sparked simultaneously. In fact, any bucking or problems with that situation were probably in your head.


No, fuel consumption is definitely the result of the map. You are burning tremendously more fuel almost all the time outside of closed loop. I'll check the CL/OL transition and see how much change there was.
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Old 09-13-2008, 04:58 PM   #94
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anyway so in the file there are a bunch of revisions. 5 and the 5th has 2 one just says 5 one just says 5 flat throttle. whats the difference? i think i flashed the one that says 5
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Old 09-13-2008, 05:01 PM   #95
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Default or was it flat throttle

it could have been either or . i would have to pull it to check. but whats the difference?
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Old 09-13-2008, 06:32 PM   #96
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The one that says flat throttle changes how the throttle plate reacts to your pedal position. He basically made it so that at all times the pedal exactly corresponds to the throttle position in your DBW throttle.

IMHO, it's not a very good idea, since maybe 90% of your power is made in the first 60% of the throttle's throw. That crams most of your sensitivity into the first half of your pedal throw. *shrug*

He basically took a 3D map and forced it into a linear 2D map. I'd run the regular one.


EDIT: in the regular map, you're pedal tells the computer how much torque you want, and the computer figures out the best way give it to you.
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Old 09-13-2008, 06:39 PM   #97
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For another attempt, look at my article on DBW programming in this forum. It's a good read.
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:30 PM   #98
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good food for thought , but to answer my origional question is the flat throttle his take on modifying the dbw? cause i dont think i flashed that revision. but if it what i think then i should flash that one and tweek it no to my style no?
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Old 09-13-2008, 11:34 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
Certainly possible if these cars are wasted spark ignitions. If you flip the correct pair of wires, nothing will happen, since both plugs are sparked simultaneously. In fact, any bucking or problems with that situation were probably in your head.


No, fuel consumption is definitely the result of the map. You are burning tremendously more fuel almost all the time outside of closed loop. I'll check the CL/OL transition and see how much change there was.
what would happen if it wasnt a wasted spark igniton? would it just stall out?
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Old 09-14-2008, 12:12 AM   #100
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It probably would never start. Not with two misfire CELs and 50% loss of cylinders.

"wasted spark" means two plugs tie to one coil - therefore. each cylinder's plug fires once per revolution. However, each cylinder is only fueled every other revolution, so half the sparks are "wasted" on a cylinder in its exhaust stroke.



Yes, the flat throttle is his take on the DBW. I don't think it's a very good take. I wouldn't flash it. williaty has a good plan in his other thread.
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