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Old 10-14-2008, 03:41 PM   #101
Jerry Xu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper1rfa View Post
The one that says flat throttle changes how the throttle plate reacts to your pedal position. He basically made it so that at all times the pedal exactly corresponds to the throttle position in your DBW throttle.

EDIT: in the regular map, you're pedal tells the computer how much torque you want, and the computer figures out the best way give it to you.
If what you say is correct, does the flat throttle program respond to your foot input quicker? (not waiting for the computer to figure the the plate position based on the torque you request)

If this is true, I will love to try it. Since I have the master's maps (thanks RaceX!) I want to see what change made a ECU "flat throttle?" Does anyone know?

Jerry
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Old 10-14-2008, 03:47 PM   #102
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Changing the mapping of the DBW system will have absolutely no effect on the speed of the reaction between moving the throttle pedal and the throttle plate hitting the target position. No matter how you map it, the DBW system runs exactly the same program and takes exactly the same amount of time.

Mapping the pedal and plate together 1:1 (the "flat throttle") you're talking about is a bad idea. That's how the 05 RS comes stock. If you read my article on DBW tuning, you'll see the problems with it.
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:45 PM   #103
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The "Flat throttle" 1:1 map is still better than the stock 06-07 maps in the way that is uses more of the pedal stroke... but its far from being good. i started with the 1:1 map and massaged it to my liking. its very sensitive early in the accel pedal stroke, it felt like even more so than the stock 06-07 maps. but it uses almost the entire pedal stroke, instead of saving the last 30% ore so for nothing. williaty write up on the DBW tuning is great and explains the ECU's logic for determining what the actual throttle plate position will be so you can modify the input table(s) so it will do what you want.
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Old 10-14-2008, 08:50 PM   #104
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Weird, my 05 (which had a 1:1 map) used less of the pedal travel than our 06 (which had a "progressive" map). Strange that you felt that the 05 was better than the 06 since both she and I are definitely convinced the 06 map was better than the 05 map.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:10 PM   #105
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if you look at the pedal angle % vs engine load % graphs that you posted in your DBW thread you can see that the 05 map and the 06(07) map get very near 100% engine load about the same pedal position, but the 06(07) map had virtually zero modulation above 60% pedal position... anything past 60% pedal position will go from 60% engine load to very near 100% engine load in about the next 10% of pedal travel and then after that its all done... like a virgin. but on the 05 map, you have that last 40% of engine load spread over almost 70% of the throttle pedal range... and it doesnt hit the ceiling so hard like the 06(07) maps... but in either case, both are poor, for some of the same reasons and some different reasons.
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Old 10-14-2008, 09:48 PM   #106
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I'm sorry for his passing I know he's tearing up rally courses in heavem...does anyone know if his girl is looking to get rid of any of the parts...I'd love to have the engine the ndress it up with his signa on the motor that would be tight.
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Old 10-14-2008, 10:40 PM   #107
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He died as a result of crashing his car.. i dont know the details of the collision but i bet the car is no longer around. if the vehicle was salvageable, the insurance company probably parted it out and sold it. If it wasnt salvageable, the insurance company probably did the same thing since they are all about $.
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Old 10-15-2008, 01:04 AM   #108
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Anyone in the MN area able to tune my 06 2.5i?
PM me
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:56 PM   #109
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I have a hard time scaling the MAF according to the following procedure. I am new to this, trying to get some help and see what I did wrong... Anyway,

I left the Max air temp at 35, Williaty was questioning this, is that F or C?
With cable connected, I can log to a file. But after I clicked the record button (after getting into in the MAF tab), no data is showing up on the large graph area to the right, that doesn't seem normal to me.
Any help from those who have done it is appreciated.
Jerry

Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Actually, I can't even find the post I'm talking about, so:

1) Open RomRaider
2) Open a saved copy of the ROM currently loaded into the ECU
3) Launch the RomRaiderLogger
4) Select the MAF tab
5) Set the values along the left side to reasonable values
6) Click Record Data
7) Drive around for about an hour moving your right foot as slowly as possible
8) Click Record Data to stop collecting data
9) Disconnect the laptop from the car but DON'T close the logger or the MAF tool tab
10) Select an order and click Interpolate.
11) Try each order for the polyfit (clicking Interpolate after each change of order) to figure out which one best fits the data you have
12) Set the MAF Scaling update range (left side) to the voltage range you want to update
13) Click Update MAF (and tell it you're really sure)
14) Close the logger
15) Save the now-modified ROM under a new name
16) Flash this new ROM into the ECU
17) Repeat steps 1-16 until you're satisfied with your scaling
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:42 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Xu View Post
I have a hard time scaling the MAF according to the following procedure. I am new to this, trying to get some help and see what I did wrong... Anyway,

I left the Max air temp at 35, Williaty was questioning this, is that F or C?
With cable connected, I can log to a file. But after I clicked the record button (after getting into in the MAF tab), no data is showing up on the large graph area to the right, that doesn't seem normal to me.
Any help from those who have done it is appreciated.
Jerry
I think the max intake air temp being F or C depends on what def's you are using (standard or metric) Standard = F and metric = C... i just raised mine to 120 so it would not affect my data either way. That was the only thing i had to change to get data to plot. Also, the min coolant temp will keep it from logging/plotting data until the engine is warmed up.. so keep that in mind. The following tips will not be necessary if you follow the list of steps that Williaty posted exactly, but i had problems with the things i am about to mention, so i bring them up so you understand what the problems are and hopefully no one else has the same problems. When you get a good useful collection of data plotted on your graph, before you update the MAF table, make sure you specify the range of the plotted data that you want it to use.. if you just leave the data range alone, it will use bad data as well as the good data that you gathered on the plot... and that will just mess up your MAF scaling everywhere else. One more thing.. you have to open the ECU editor and then open the logger through the editor or it will not be able to find the MAF table when you want to update it. probably a good idea to open the map you want to update before logging, too. Hope that helps.
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:11 PM   #111
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You want to set the max intake temp just above your cruising IAT on that specific day. Basically, you need to use the max IAT variable to let cruising data through but gate out the data while you heatsoak at a stoplight.
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Old 10-27-2008, 10:37 AM   #112
Jerry Xu
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Thanks guys!!!

After changing the Max temp I was able to plot np. Turned out that my new intake made the MAF off (underestimated) by as much as 18% at low MAFv's, and 6% at high MAFv's. After several updates, the car felt smoother with more torque. I am so happy. If I am correct, 6% more fuel is like another 10hp at least. I have Master's files, however, none of them seem to have MAF rescaled.

PS: I just found out that if I don't close the logger program, and cable connected, I can continue to get data (from multiple trips) even if I turn off the car in between.

Now, how to monitor and improve timing???
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Old 10-27-2008, 01:17 PM   #113
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Nope, you didn't gain any airflow or torque or power. You don't understand the data you're looking at.

The MAF scaling tab collects the amount of fueling error at each MAFv. So when you were off by 18% at lof MAFvs, the ECU had polled the MAFv, looked up how much air that was supposed to be, calculated how much fuel that air required, injects the fuel, then uses the O2 sensor to determine the amount of error, and decided that it had been 18% rich or lean. On the next cycle, the ECU uses that 18% measured error to compensate the calculation of fuel step. So the total airflow doesn't change. After sampling tens of thousands of cycles of this, the MAF tool allows you to then find the most frequent error at each MAFv and apply that typical correction to the MAF Scaling map.

All you're doing with the MAF scaling is making sure that the ECU looks up the correct amount of air and therefore gets the fueling right on the first try.
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Old 10-27-2008, 08:17 PM   #114
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Jerry, got your pm and replied, but i cant stress enough that you do not want to make any changes to fueling or timing until your MAF scaling is just about perfect.
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Old 10-28-2008, 03:14 PM   #115
Jerry Xu
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Thanks guys!
I rescaled the MAF 6 times by now. I was able to get the fit curve to 2-3% from 0 throughout the range, except for may be the MAFv's of 1.1-1.2 where the data is a little unsettled.
Williaty, thanks for the information. It is sad to know that I got no more power. The car felt smoother, sounds less rough, and drove stronger--maybe a placebo effect. RaceFaceXC, thanks for the reply. If the car gets another 5-10hp it will be perfect for the daily driving I do.

Jerry

Last edited by Jerry Xu; 10-28-2008 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 10-28-2008, 06:15 PM   #116
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Power comes from timing. I'm loving the cold weather because of all the timing I can add to the tune
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:52 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Power comes from timing. I'm loving the cold weather because of all the timing I can add to the tune
+1, even here in FL its in the 50's when im on the road and im making great power. much better than IAT's being 110+.
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:57 PM   #118
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i wish i had a clue about any of this open source tuning

pros/cons anyone?
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:23 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
+1, even here in FL its in the 50's when im on the road and im making great power. much better than IAT's being 110+.
Yeah, I've been able to add 8* of timing over the last two days. I'm doing it in little bits each time I go out, looking for the point at which the car is going to say enough. The three things I've noticed so far:

1) The place where I do 3rd gear WOT pulls used to only fit 2 pulls plus a little extra run off. Now, I can do 3 pulls in that distance if I cut it tight on the safety margin.

2) A place where I used to Vmax it for the fun of it now sees me 20mph faster 200yds sooner before I chicken out and get off the gas.

3) It's much harder to shift smoothly or launch gently due to how much more aggressively the car builds torque. I may "feather" the timing into the low-load cells to make the onset more smooth.
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:53 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
Yeah, I've been able to add 8* of timing over the last two days. I'm doing it in little bits each time I go out, looking for the point at which the car is going to say enough. The three things I've noticed so far:

1) The place where I do 3rd gear WOT pulls used to only fit 2 pulls plus a little extra run off. Now, I can do 3 pulls in that distance if I cut it tight on the safety margin.

2) A place where I used to Vmax it for the fun of it now sees me 20mph faster 200yds sooner before I chicken out and get off the gas.

3) It's much harder to shift smoothly or launch gently due to how much more aggressively the car builds torque. I may "feather" the timing into the low-load cells to make the onset more smooth.
wow, thats quite the change. i would have never thought a temp drop would cause changes that drastic. What kind of IAT difference are you experiencing to get those changes?

When I pulled out into traffic this morning i would have been usually getting on it hard and having the car behind me coming up in my rear view closer than id like but i found myself getting up and going violently.. it gave me a little rush that i hadn't gotten in a while. love it. also noticed when i pull onto the main road after work that there is a cop @ the next cross street and if im WOT through 2nd gear im still under the speed limit b4 i get to the cop that is always there in the same place... was almost 5 mph over the limit today. Where are you adding timing (rpm range)? And are you having to adj fueling along with the added timing or are you getting pure advance without AFR adjustment? I only have added 3* at some load/rpm cells but have not started to get any complaints from my ECU in terms of knock. looks like i need to try another * or two.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:13 PM   #121
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1) Fueling should never change because of timing. Fueling needs sorted out before timing.

2) I've added the timing literally to every cell in the entire map. On this last round, there were 2 spots where I added the timing to the whole map, then took the increase back out in those spots (easiest way of doing it). So the whole map is up 8* and 95% of the map is up 9* and rising.

3) Yeah, the car definitely feels more frantic. Everything happens sooner than I expect. I keep bouncing off the damned fuel cut.

4) Right now, I'm seeing about an 80F change from the worst steady-state IATs I saw during the summer. I expect to get another 30-40F colder than this over the winter.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:12 AM   #122
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i think my target AFR's are a little leaner than they should be in some areas, but im not knocking anywhere and i have added a bit of fuel to a few cells when adding timing. i need to spend a lot more time with my new WB O2 and get it gravy everywhere i guess. Do you just tune fuel for max torque @ any given ingition timing? Seems like you would need a dyno to do that well. i wish i was in Michigan again, with 30* weather.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:18 AM   #123
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Well, 13.5 AFR is MBT. I try to run at 12.5 AFR just to allow a little room for error. Without a dyno, that's the best you can do. Then I add all the timing the car will tolerate.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:31 AM   #124
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i see... i guess i just didnt think it was that straight forward. Do you run MBT at all cells near WOT? how do you judge which loads need that much fuel and when to taper off... I just adjusted the base map here and there little at a time, seeing what the changes made. very slow an tedious but so far its going ok. using the factory trend for enriching as a guide, and just using my own target values to follow a similar "delta" from stoich based on load, etc. staying reasonable, because factory AFR's are stupid rich near the top, as you are aware.

Last edited by GrundleJuice; 10-29-2008 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:34 AM   #125
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No, I don't run MBT at all. MBT is 13.5. I stay richer of that just in case I spike lean for some reason. IIRC, my fueling map is stoich from idle to 4kRPM and then 12.5 from 4kRPM to redline for all loads under 0.9g/rev. From 0.9g/rev to max, it's stoich from idle to 2kRPM and then 12.5 from 2kRPM to redline. On each of the "borders" between stoich and 12.5, there's 1 cell of 13.6 in between to provide a taper.
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