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Old 10-29-2008, 12:09 AM   #126
RaceFaceXC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
No, I don't run MBT at all. MBT is 13.5. I stay richer of that just in case I spike lean for some reason. IIRC, my fueling map is stoich from idle to 4kRPM and then 12.5 from 4kRPM to redline for all loads under 0.9g/rev. From 0.9g/rev to max, it's stoich from idle to 2kRPM and then 12.5 from 2kRPM to redline. On each of the "borders" between stoich and 12.5, there's 1 cell of 13.6 in between to provide a taper.
My bad, i meant 12.5 i just wrote MBT. Its so cool to see how simple your map is, mine is all over the place relative to yours. I just got my WB a week ago and after getting the win vista kinks out and getting it working right with RR im just starting to use it. So far im just corrolating my maps AFR's to what im actually getting on my WB and adjusting my maps accordingly to get the actual afr's (WB afr's) that i want. so do you get a consistant AFR on your fuel map for your desired AFR (12.5, etc)? its late and i cant even clearly write what im thinking, so im out. thanks for all your advice, williaty.
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Old 10-29-2008, 12:17 AM   #127
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The best way to go to get things sorted out in the beginning is to make it even more simple than what I have. Make everything to the left of some load point (I used 0.9 g/rev) stoich and everything to the right 12.5. Then you use the MAF tool a couple of times to get the CL MAF scaling close and then prefect it with the manual scaling method I posted. Once you're down to stable <2% AF Learning D, and 0 is better but stable is the most important, move on to OL. Go do a dozen 2k-redline WOT pulls. Bring the data home and do the method we talked about to calculate the corrections. Rescale the MAF and then do another dozen pulls. Crunch the numbers, rescale the MAF, do more pulls. Repeat until you're happy with the OL MAF scaling. Then set your Primary OL Fueling table to what ever values you really want it to be long-term. BTW, make sure that you don't apply your OL calculations to MAFvs that get seen in CL. For whatever reason, CL and OL scaling isn't identical in the MAFvs where they overlap. It's better to have a accurate and stable CL scaling so AFL D doesn't change and then finnese the actual AFRs in OL a little if you have to.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:29 AM   #128
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There are like 6 timing tables. Which one do you adjust or all of them. These tables different value...?
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Old 10-29-2008, 01:25 PM   #129
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For each table with the same name, I set the tables to the same thing (A=B=C). Which table I adjust depends on what I'm trying to do.
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Old 10-30-2008, 04:11 PM   #130
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Today, I updated my ECU Master's timing tables revision 5 together with my latest MAF table. Drove around. Didn't feel any improvement in power. Amazing. IAM value dropped from 1 to 0.5.

Last edited by Jerry Xu; 10-30-2008 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 10-30-2008, 08:45 PM   #131
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IAM starts at 0.5 after an ECU reset. You need to get the car to pump the IAM back up to whatever it wants to be at. I've detailed how somewhere on this forum.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:36 PM   #132
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you can adjust the IAM initial setting with RR, and if you are using the Master 2.5i maps in any form, he did have the IAM set to 1.000 on many of them. so if your starting @ 1.000 and dropping to .500 then you should switch back to a known good map and tweak the new map as required to avoid knock. starting @ .500 IAM is a good idea because it lessens the chance of severe knock due to overly advanced timing... if you get your IAM up to 1.000 and then flash a new map with slightly higher timing, using initial IAM of .500 will start you off with less timing than you dialed in for the new map, but allow it to rise to the full advance that was dialed in IF there are no problems with it in terms of knock. At least thats how i understand it.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:49 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
you can adjust the IAM initial setting with RR
but you shouldn't
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:56 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
but you shouldn't
I agree.. for exactly the reason i explained in my previous post. just one more reason why flashing an unknown map to your car is a very bad idea. If the IAM was .500 then only half of the advance would have been applied to start, which could be the difference between seeing a problem and adjusting timing to fix it or seeing a problem and paying for engine repairs.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:58 PM   #135
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Yeah, I just wanted to make that god-awful clear on a post all to itself. With how little people are willing to work to understand this, I'm almost looking forwards to the first guy who blows up his engine so that maybe people will realize how important it is to be careful and understand what's going on.
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Old 10-31-2008, 09:48 AM   #136
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Thanks guys.
Even with the stock timing, my IAM normally would climb up to 0.650-0.750 and stop there. I saw 1.000 a few time, but it retreated to 0.700 after a while of normal driving anyhow. Does this mean we should stay away from even the stock map since the IAM is less than 1.000? Does that also mean that there is just not enough room left for improvement unless one uses 93 octane or enriches the AFR tables.

Master's revision 5 has very mild timing advancement (from stock), together with fuel enrichment. In fact, in tables D and E, he had most cells timing retarded (I was hoping that these tables are not normally used, compared to Tables A-C). After trying (any monitoring the Knock), I have to say I didn't feel noticeable power gain. The gain, if any, was much less than the intake mod I did to this car.

I hope one of you can share the secret that can keep the IAM high and have advanced timing at the same time.
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Old 10-31-2008, 10:55 AM   #137
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Quote:
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I hope one of you can share the secret that can keep the IAM high and have advanced timing at the same time.
Simple - increase fuel octane.
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Old 10-31-2008, 02:10 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Jerry Xu View Post
Does that also mean that there is just not enough room left for improvement unless one uses 93 octane or enriches the AFR tables.
In a lot of tuners' opinions, this is exactly the case. The stock tune is too aggressive. It's pretty obviously targeted at returning the maximum MPG while keeping the engine alive just long enough to get it out of warranty. I've yet to see any tune for a 05+ RS that didn't reduce timing compared to stock if they stayed with 87oct gas.

Quote:
I have to say I didn't feel noticeable power gain. The gain, if any, was much less than the intake mod I did to this car.
Everyone who's tuned an NA has been VERY up front that there are NO power gains to be made by tuning on a stock NA. It's only with substantial mods to the engine that you can start making more power.

Quote:
I hope one of you can share the secret that can keep the IAM high and have advanced timing at the same time.
First of all, what you said doesn't make sense. You said "Keep the advance high while advancing". IAM is Ignition ADVANCE Multiplier.

But, to answer what you thought you were asking, you can't. The engine, on a given octane, will only allow so much timing. To get the IAM high and stable, you have to reduce the base timing in the rough correction evaluation range.
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:49 PM   #139
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I am grateful to your answers but disappointed of your answers.
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Old 10-31-2008, 04:54 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Jerry Xu View Post
I am grateful to your answers but disappointed of your answers.
Hey, all everything I wrote was available on at least 2 different forums. Diligent research before you started tuning would have turned up the fact that you weren't going to gain any power plus the answers to all the questions you've asked both in the forum and in PMs.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:51 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
It's pretty obviously targeted at returning the maximum MPG while keeping the engine alive just long enough to get it out of warranty.
How many properly maintained stock EJ253's have failed before hitting 100k? IMHO the engine has established itself as highly reliable and capable of 200K+. Subaru is pushing timing the same way other manufacturers are. After all why not: more timing = more power, more economy, and less emissions. A win-win provided it is done safely. When I was running stock with 87oct I averaged IAM of .7, that leaves room for IAM correction (rough) and fine learning correction. The result is more than enough timing correction to compensate for a horrible tank of gas...

...or maybe the gas is just better in MN.
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Old 10-31-2008, 11:55 PM   #142
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It's not the lack of overhead to accommodate a tank of worse-than-average gas that worries me, it's the continuous knocking that many of these engines suffer. I think it will be interesting to see how many 05-07's are still on their first engines 5 and 10 years, 150k and 300k miles, etc from purchase.
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Old 01-19-2009, 05:39 PM   #143
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Anybody have the file still. I am not a noob tuner, but I have only done turbo tunes.

I will be helping a buddy tune his 07 2.5i, and wanted to have something to look over in RR for a starting point.

Was this set-up for 87 octane, or higher?
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Old 01-19-2009, 06:07 PM   #144
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it was set up for 91+
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Old 01-21-2009, 07:28 PM   #145
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would anyone care to share their map?
i've been looking for the map for MY05 5MT.
following mods with
borla header
catless
2.25 custom mid pipe
STi Genome axleback
injen CAI.
91+ Oct

please PM

Last edited by aznguyjac; 01-21-2009 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 01-21-2009, 08:06 PM   #146
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Sharing custom maps is a BAD idea. What runs fine on one car may cause another car to blow an engine, even with similar mods. Find someone who's willing to work with you to develop a custom tune for your car.
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Old 02-09-2009, 06:01 AM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceFaceXC View Post
it was set up for 91+
Wrong. It was tuned for 87.
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