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Old 03-20-2013, 06:17 PM   #1
WRXt4cy
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Default E85 Blackstone oil analysis results

I'm hoping to get some feedback from other people running E85 who have had Blackstone oil analysis' done. I've got one from my own car and another from a friend's car to share. Both are stock turbo, running E85. I've had my car on E85 for one year now and the engine has seen about 12,000 miles on it. It's seen some track days, autocross and plenty of hard driving. Its been solid, and oil consumption is nearly zero. I was a little surprised to see the higher ppm of some of the metals, especially the iron. I'm wondering if this is normal with E85. Perhaps its causing faster engine wear.

What are other people seeing with E85 and Blackstone reports? I'm wondering if I should lower my oil change interval (I normally do 2500 - 3000 miles) or consider a thicker oil? I've used T6 for a long time now and its always seemed to be good stuff.

My report, 2011 STi:



2012 STi report:

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Old 03-20-2013, 06:39 PM   #2
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Great info. Thanks!
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:53 PM   #3
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I rarely see Subaru uoa's on E85. I would do one more 3k oci with a uoa on RT6, and contact Terry Dyson if the wear levels do not drop.
http://dysonanalysis.com/Dyson_Analysis/Welcome.html
Blackstone will only make random comments, but Dyson will work with you to find the source of a problem and find the optimum oil for your application.

You shouldn't need to go thicker IMO. I seem to recall someone mentioning before that E85 will affect an oil's lubricity. You can also try searching or posting this on bobistheoilguy.

As to your buddies uoa, I would not recommend Amsoil SSO for an STI. Only DEO 5W-40, HDD Series 3000 5W-30, or the new Euro Full SAPS 5W-40. I've run SSO a couple of times and it's not an ideal oil for turbo Subaru applications IMO.

-Dennis

Last edited by bluesubie; 03-20-2013 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:39 PM   #4
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
I rarely see Subaru uoa's on E85. I would do one more 3k oci with a uoa on RT6, and contact Terry Dyson if the wear levels do not drop.
http://dysonanalysis.com/Dyson_Analysis/Welcome.html
Blackstone will only make random comments, but Dyson will work with you to find the source of a problem and find the optimum oil for your application.

You shouldn't need to go thicker IMO. I seem to recall someone mentioning before that E85 will affect an oil's lubricity. You can also try searching or posting this on bobistheoilguy.

As to your buddies uoa, I would not recommend Amsoil SSO for an STI. Only DEO 5W-40, HDD Series 3000 5W-30, or the new Euro Full SAPS 5W-40. I've run SSO a couple of times and it's not an ideal oil for turbo Subaru applications IMO.

-Dennis
Thanks for the info Dennis. I'll send another sample with a lower interval and see what it shows. My friend already switched to T6 after this sample was taken. He will be getting another UOA soon on the T6.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:51 PM   #5
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You're Stage 2 E-85 tune is a pro-tune, right?

I agree with bluesubie, in that one more data point would give a clearer picture. The risk is minimal, IMO, so long as the "wear" you're seeing isn't due to tune-related issues. The oil itself has held up well, though I'd not push too much longer than what you're doing now.

I also had poor results with Amsoil's SSO, but have not tried any of their other options appropriate for our application.

If T6 doesn't provide the results you're looking for, then spending a little more on something exotic is probably in order.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:01 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gathermewool View Post
You're Stage 2 E-85 tune is a pro-tune, right?

I agree with bluesubie, in that one more data point would give a clearer picture. The risk is minimal, IMO, so long as the "wear" you're seeing isn't due to tune-related issues. The oil itself has held up well, though I'd not push too much longer than what you're doing now.

I also had poor results with Amsoil's SSO, but have not tried any of their other options appropriate for our application.

If T6 doesn't provide the results you're looking for, then spending a little more on something exotic is probably in order.
I've tuned the car myself. Its not overly aggressive and the numbers it puts down are comparable to other people running the stock turbo with E85. I know people get carried away with E85 tuning but that's not my approach at all so I don't think the tuning itself is causing extra wear. The extra power its making could certainly be a contributing factor to the higher wear but that's exactly why I made this post. I'm trying to get a feel for if there is any extra wear coming from running E85 vs gasoline.

I'm hoping other people will chime in and post E85 and non-E85 Blackstone reports to see what kind of a trend there is. Its hard to know what kind of people are in the sample for Blackstone's baseline numbers. Are they mostly stock? Stage 2? Who knows.

I'll see how my next sample looks and if the wear still seems high, I will probably try a different kind of oil.
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:29 PM   #7
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Nice results I've been running e85 for roughly 10 months now & I've been wondering how it effects the motor versus gas as I've started having issues and yes it is tuned
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Old 03-20-2013, 08:32 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by dgriff992002 View Post
Nice results I've been running e85 for roughly 10 months now & I've been wondering how it effects the motor versus gas as I've started having issues and yes it is tuned
What kind of issues are you having?

What kind of oil are you running?

I was happy to see my TBN was still pretty good after 3400 miles. I've noticed my oil always smells like Ethanol when I change it and was worried it might be breaking down quickly but it doesn't seem to be too bad.

I run a Moroso catch can setup so I keep a lot of fuel byproduct out of my oil that way.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:01 PM   #9
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I have done 6 Blackstone oil analysis all on E85. I am doing some testing of oil types for my own interest. Change intervals are based on usage not miles, so after dyno tuning or open track days. I just have had high copper which has come down recently.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazswing View Post
I have done 6 Blackstone oil analysis all on E85. I am doing some testing of oil types for my own interest. Change intervals are based on usage not miles, so after dyno tuning or open track days. I just have had high copper which has come down recently.
That's great. Feel free to share your findings here. I couldn't find a good thread on this subject.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXt4cy View Post
That's great. Feel free to share your findings here. I couldn't find a good thread on this subject.
I'll try and post that up. Part of the reason is the 95% of the stuff on here is not data driven. Even our oil analyses are going to run into issues of degree of use, time on the engine, etc. But I will work on posting my latest report.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:57 PM   #12
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E85 will contaminate oil much more than standard 93 and even more so on built motors that have any sort of expansion rates to the sealing of the pistons. I've seen a guy who's basically running 2-2500 on his oil and that's what was recommended by two facilities due to the breakdown the oil was seeing.

There are oils (like bluesubie mentioned) that will help in reflecting the ill effects so that there isn't detrimental damages caused. Naturally though E85 vehicles run cleaner but not without sacrificing the requirement of early maint. to materials.

I think that Dennis has grand advise about speaking with someone (not bob the oil guy) about possibly working with you to find an oil that will be more suitable to the needs.

-Mark
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:21 PM   #13
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That is good info! Different oils between the two. I came across this statement from mobile 1 about what oil to run with E85: http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/..._E85_Fuel.aspx

They seem to say a HD truck oil like the Rotella is best for acid neutralization in E85 fueled vehicles.
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:21 PM   #14
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazswing View Post
I'll try and post that up. Part of the reason is the 95% of the stuff on here is not data driven. Even our oil analyses are going to run into issues of degree of use, time on the engine, etc. But I will work on posting my latest report.
Valid point here. I'm just interested in seeing any data people have. Its better than nothing which is about all I've been able to find so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by APM Tuned View Post
E85 will contaminate oil much more than standard 93 and even more so on built motors that have any sort of expansion rates to the sealing of the pistons. I've seen a guy who's basically running 2-2500 on his oil and that's what was recommended by two facilities due to the breakdown the oil was seeing.

There are oils (like bluesubie mentioned) that will help in reflecting the ill effects so that there isn't detrimental damages caused. Naturally though E85 vehicles run cleaner but not without sacrificing the requirement of early maint. to materials.

I think that Dennis has grand advise about speaking with someone (not bob the oil guy) about possibly working with you to find an oil that will be more suitable to the needs.

-Mark
Thanks for the info Mark! It has been my feeling as well that E85 would probably break down oil quicker than gasoline. I normally change my oil between 2500 and 3000 depending on the kind of use/abuse it sees. I'm going to send another sample at 2500 and see how things look. I want to find the oil change interval that makes the most sense with E85.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #15
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05' sti stock block w/external mods only.

hm....will repost pic, need to remove personal data.


Last edited by k mier; 03-21-2013 at 09:42 PM.
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Old 03-21-2013, 08:31 PM   #16
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i just got mine back from them and i run e85 told me to bump it up for 7500 miles per change
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:03 AM   #17
WRXt4cy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k mier View Post
05' sti stock block w/external mods only.
Looks similar to what I'm seeing. Higher PPM of some of the metals vs. whatever the Blackstone baseline is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cefaln452 View Post
i just got mine back from them and i run e85 told me to bump it up for 7500 miles per change
What kind of oil are you running? Did you have a TBN done?
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:30 AM   #18
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:46 AM   #19
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I run amsoil asl 5w30
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:44 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cefaln452 View Post
I run amsoil asl 5w30
Can you post the uoa? See my Amsoil recommendation above as well as the link from Mobil posted by ebmxer.

-Dennis
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:48 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k mier View Post
05' sti stock block w/external mods only.

hm....will repost pic, need to remove personal data.
Am I seeing correctly that your lead is 375?

-Dennis
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Old 05-13-2013, 10:46 PM   #22
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sorry to bump an old thread, but does the OP have anymore results? my buds 2013 sti was just tuned on e85, and i am going in 10 days for the same tune. just want to know if anyone has tried diff oils, i am currently on T6
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Old 05-14-2013, 08:45 AM   #23
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Do a uoa at 3k miles and do not run the oil any longer unless the uoa shows low wear numbers.

-Dennis
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Old 01-14-2014, 02:17 PM   #24
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any further results? BigRob74 did you ever do a UoA?
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Old 01-14-2014, 09:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asharus View Post
any further results? BigRob74 did you ever do a UoA?
i did, everything was fine, but it was only with running e85 for 2200 miles. i wont run it year round, i'll be back on it in june
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