GT40R pump tune at 26.8 psi boost

tino · 03-14-2008, 04:31 AM

Car made 450hp atw on 1.2 bar and full boost at 4800 rpm and we thought it was gonna fly but there seems to be something holding it up somewhere not sure what it could be. We didnt want to push it too far so ended up with 505 hp atw on 1.85 bar (26.8 psi boost).

We have changed the inlet manifold, ported heads, over size valves and larger cams??

All runs were done in 5th gear and on 98 RON BP ultimate in Australia. 98 RON = around 91-93 MON in the U.S.

Engine mods:

2.5ltr (sleeved, CP coated 99.5mm pistons, Pauter rods, machined crank)
GT40R twin scroll turbo with 1.06 rear
1265cc injectors
Fuel rail and regulator
Cosworth 1mm oversize valves
Cosworth springs and retainers
Perrin equal length header with custom twin scroll upipe
perrin FMIC with custom Reversed FMIC piping
Custom intake manifold with 75mm TB..
Cosworth 278/274 AVCS cams
twin walbro in tank fuel pumps
Motec M800

As for driving it is very responsive and 4th and 5th gear is scary fast.. Ill get a better appreciation when there is little traffic around in the days to come..

A couple of issues, the intake coupler needs to be changed to a silcone one, but that was all we could find in short notice. Will order one shortly.

Opinons??

Vid of the 505hp atw run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyX0XyMXdVk

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

benw · 03-14-2008, 04:42 AM

wow! great results for that low octane. how much boost is planned for race fuel?

Lebanese rally champ · 03-14-2008, 06:12 AM

Good results...
but whats happening with the Black hose between the pipe & the manifold???
i think its leaking maybe???

do u think the +1mm oversize valves did make a difference???

Good Luck

UniqueTII · 03-14-2008, 06:52 AM

What book did you read while you were waiting for it to spool?

Seriously though, when you say there's something holding it up do you mean the top end or all the way across the board?

SilverSurfer04STi · 03-14-2008, 07:53 AM

Think he meant something is holding back overall expected power.

Do you have pics of the custom Perrin TS header / uppipe?

tino · 03-14-2008, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lebanese rally champ

Good results...
but whats happening with the Black hose between the pipe & the manifold???
i think its leaking maybe???

do u think the +1mm oversize valves did make a difference???

Good Luck

Its the joiner, not silcone reinforced so it flexes when there is soo much air pushing through it..

Not sure about the valves as i did everything all at once..

Unique... Its really not that laggy on the street.

We think theres a block somewhere as we made 450 hp atw on 1.2 bar and only 505 hp atw on 1.85 bar. We could have pushed it further on pump but my tuner was thinking that it may be too dangerous to do so.. Well leave that to race fuel when we will run 2-2.2 bar to hopefully try and push 600 hp atw...

Either way just driving it on the highway just now, its an absolute weapon and seems it just wants to keep pulling and pulling...

shvrdavid · 03-14-2008, 08:01 AM

Looking at the power curve, I would degree that cams and see where they are at...
Looks to me like your centerlines are off...
A .65 bar increase in boost pressure should be more than 55 whp...

Thats an interesting printout you got...

You don't see to many that show that low, 42whp @ 2100...
Check your centerlines and go from there...
It will take some experimenting to find the perfect centerline, but it will be well worth the effort in the end...

tino · 03-14-2008, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilverSurfer04STi

Think he meant something is holding back overall expected power.

Do you have pics of the custom Perrin TS header / uppipe?

Nah i dont mate, they coated them and put them on the car before i could do so.. But what i did see of them they look quality..

tino · 03-14-2008, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shvrdavid

Looking at the power curve, I would degree that cams and see where they are at...
Looks to me like your centerlines are off...
A .65 bar increase in boost pressure should be more than 55 whp...

Thats an interesting printout you got...

You don't see to many that show that low, 42whp @ 2100...
Check your centerlines and go from there...
It will take some experimenting to find the perfect centerline, but it will be well worth the effort in the end...

Thanks for comment, does this apply for AVCS cams?? ill ask my tuner about that and see what he says..

Lebanese rally champ · 03-14-2008, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tino

Its the joiner, not silcone reinforced so it flexes when there is soo much air pushing through it..

Not sure about the valves as i did everything all at once..

Unique... Its really not that laggy on the street.

We think theres a block somewhere as we made 450 hp atw on 1.2 bar and only 505 hp atw on 1.85 bar. We could have pushed it further on pump but my tuner was thinking that it may be too dangerous to do so.. Well leave that to race fuel when we will run 2-2.2 bar to hopefully try and push 600 hp atw...

Either way just driving it on the highway just now, its an absolute weapon and seems it just wants to keep pulling and pulling...

Im sure that with racing fuel u'll get some great numbers,coz ur fuel is like ours in Lebanon(Total 98 unleaded) & it is much less octane to 91 california,i think its around 88 octane max

pls do it soon & keep us updated.

Homemade WRX · 03-14-2008, 08:57 AM

was there any port work done to the heads?

tino · 03-14-2008, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

was there any port work done to the heads?

Micah the heads had a slight port and polish...

blowbyu24 · 03-14-2008, 09:15 AM

looking good Tino, i can't wait for your race gas tune....thats what i want 500whp on pump congrats!!!

tino · 03-14-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blowbyu24

looking good Tino, i can't wait for your race gas tune....thats what i want 500whp on pump congrats!!!

Theres just something restricting it though.. what could it be is the question??

would a 3inch dump be a restricition i wonder??

Also torque figure seems really low should be around 6-700nm imo..

blowbyu24 · 03-14-2008, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tino

Theres just something restricting it though.. what could it be is the question??

would a 3inch dump be a restricition i wonder??

Also torque figure seems really low should be around 6-700nm imo..

well if you were at 450 @ 1.2 bar you should have been close to 550 at 26psi

theres something not right b/c your power should be climbing way high with the turbo fully spooled...im not sure to what the problem could be....good luck and keep us posted

Junior2JZ · 03-14-2008, 01:22 PM

25-26psi on pump I make 480-500whp on a DD. 29psi makes 550/60 on c16 and traps 132. 39psi it makes high 600s. I have to remove the muffler for that though.. Dies up top with it on. It doesnt keep climbing either it hits peak power and stays flat to 7500-8000.. This motor has 15,000 miles like this too.. Still runs and doesnt have broken or disrtorted sleeves from running "so much boost"
Single Scroll 4088
Perrin EQ headers
Built 2.0 Heads (All Ferrea parts + bigger valves)
Crower Cams
2.5 stock sleeves, with Carrillo rods, Weisco Pistons, cosworth pump + bearings
Stock reversed intake manifold, throttle body..
Ported TGV housing
3" borla hush
1100 CC injectors
Custom Fuel System
TXS UTEC + Stock ECU
MBC
6spd and a single plate..

Dont worry about the dyno, see how it feels and take it to the track.. I know the graph seems laggy, but I bet it hits like a mac truck
Junior

cornerbuddy28 · 03-14-2008, 01:39 PM

Oh, I've been fortunate enought to get a ride in that car. Awesome setup.

2REDSTARS · 03-14-2008, 02:48 PM

just curious, why was it dyno'd in 5th gear? and also could you be losing pressure from that coupler leaking, and maybe thats robbing power?

cpturbo · 03-14-2008, 05:41 PM

check for boost leaks first. Then ask your self what the next biggest restriction is. Look closely at the header for leaks and its overall runner size. Maybe the turbo wants more flow than you can give it on the exhaust side. I agree that you should be making >12hp per psi in that range.

I wouldn't tune again until you figure this out.

engineerx · 03-14-2008, 07:06 PM

^^^ What he said +

The Perrin EL headers make nice power on the smaller turbos, for a large turbo like the GT40, the diameter of the runners on the header are too small in my opinion. They might be restricting flow to that large turbo. I'd try a different header. Didn't read whole thread, maybe some1 suggested this above.

tino · 03-14-2008, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2REDSTARS

just curious, why was it dyno'd in 5th gear? and also could you be losing pressure from that coupler leaking, and maybe thats robbing power?

Yeh it was dynoed in 5th gear as for stis that is the closest 1:1 ratio... for wrxs with 5 speeds dynos should be done in 4th gear to get 1:1 ratio

modaddict · 03-14-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tino

Yeh it was dynoed in 5th gear as for stis that is the closest 1:1 ratio... for wrxs with 5 speeds dynos should be done in 4th gear to get 1:1 ratio

I wish more people would realize this.

Somehow in the last couple years, it's switched to 4th gear in the sti and 3rd in the wrx

tino · 03-14-2008, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Junior2JZ

25-26psi on pump I make 480-500whp on a DD. 29psi makes 550/60 on c16 and traps 132. 39psi it makes high 600s. I have to remove the muffler for that though.. Dies up top with it on. It doesnt keep climbing either it hits peak power and stays flat to 7500-8000.. This motor has 15,000 miles like this too.. Still runs and doesnt have broken or disrtorted sleeves from running "so much boost"
Single Scroll 4088
Perrin EQ headers
Built 2.0 Heads (All Ferrea parts + bigger valves)
Crower Cams
2.5 stock sleeves, with Carrillo rods, Weisco Pistons, cosworth pump + bearings
Stock reversed intake manifold, throttle body..
Ported TGV housing
3" borla hush
1100 CC injectors
Custom Fuel System
TXS UTEC + Stock ECU
MBC
6spd and a single plate..

Dont worry about the dyno, see how it feels and take it to the track.. I know the graph seems laggy, but I bet it hits like a mac truck
Junior

hey junior, have u got a dyno printiout of ur pump run, want to see the torque... i think my toruqe is too low for the power that im running... Also was this with 0.86 or 1.06 rear housing??

And yes it feels very strong to drive, almost scary especially when u hit the bigger gears in the sti.. hahah

cpturbo/ engineerx
Headers could be an issue, in terms of flow. The upipe has also similar diameters but as its a twin scroll is much much larger than a single scroll upipe...

tino · 03-14-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modaddict

I wish more people would realize this.

Somehow in the last couple years, it's switched to 4th gear in the sti and 3rd in the wrx

ITs all about chasing the numbers i feel now, i dont really care about the numbers but what it will do at the 1/4 to give an indication of power...

but in this instance: I believe there is something holding me making more power thus the discussion..

but have been given some good ideas:

1) Cams may need to be centered
2) Headers may be restrictive
3) Manifold may be restrictive
4) Dumpipe may be too small i.e 3" maybe increase to 4" then into 3.5??

Thats what i like about these forums.... any more suggestions will be great as ill throw all these at the tuner and well go from there..

S L O W W R X · 03-14-2008, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engineerx

^^^ What he said +

The Perrin EL headers make nice power on the smaller turbos, for a large turbo like the GT40, the diameter of the runners on the header are too small in my opinion. They might be restricting flow to that large turbo. I'd try a different header. Didn't read whole thread, maybe some1 suggested this above.

Ding ding ding....we have a winner.

The header is way to small

03-14-2008, 04:31 AM	#1
tino Top Scoob 019 Member#: 43630 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Down Under Vehicle: 2004 GT40R-built 2.5 604 whp @1.8 BAR on VP109	GT40R pump tune at 26.8 psi boost Car made 450hp atw on 1.2 bar and full boost at 4800 rpm and we thought it was gonna fly but there seems to be something holding it up somewhere not sure what it could be. We didnt want to push it too far so ended up with 505 hp atw on 1.85 bar (26.8 psi boost). We have changed the inlet manifold, ported heads, over size valves and larger cams?? All runs were done in 5th gear and on 98 RON BP ultimate in Australia. 98 RON = around 91-93 MON in the U.S. Engine mods: 2.5ltr (sleeved, CP coated 99.5mm pistons, Pauter rods, machined crank) GT40R twin scroll turbo with 1.06 rear 1265cc injectors Fuel rail and regulator Cosworth 1mm oversize valves Cosworth springs and retainers Perrin equal length header with custom twin scroll upipe perrin FMIC with custom Reversed FMIC piping Custom intake manifold with 75mm TB.. Cosworth 278/274 AVCS cams twin walbro in tank fuel pumps Motec M800 As for driving it is very responsive and 4th and 5th gear is scary fast.. Ill get a better appreciation when there is little traffic around in the days to come.. A couple of issues, the intake coupler needs to be changed to a silcone one, but that was all we could find in short notice. Will order one shortly. Opinons?? Vid of the 505hp atw run: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyX0XyMXdVk * Registered users of the site do not see these ads. Last edited by tino; 04-18-2008 at 08:06 PM.

03-14-2008, 01:39 PM	#17
cornerbuddy28 Scooby Specialist Member#: 88976 Join Date: Jun 2005 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Hinesburg VT Vehicle: Main Ingredients: WRX motor, PPG's, me	Oh, I've been fortunate enought to get a ride in that car. Awesome setup. Last edited by cornerbuddy28; 03-14-2008 at 02:17 PM.

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03-14-2008, 04:42 AM	#2
benw Scooby Specialist Member#: 103320 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Oklahoma City Vehicle: 2005 wingless aspen white	wow! great results for that low octane. how much boost is planned for race fuel?

03-14-2008, 06:12 AM	#3
Lebanese rally champ Scooby Newbie Member#: 89192 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lebanon Vehicle: 2004 USDM STI Crawford Performance S5	Good results... but whats happening with the Black hose between the pipe & the manifold??? i think its leaking maybe??? do u think the +1mm oversize valves did make a difference??? Good Luck

03-14-2008, 06:52 AM	#4
UniqueTII Scooby Specialist Member#: 93040 Join Date: Aug 2005 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Ankeny, IA Vehicle: 2005 300C Satin Jade	What book did you read while you were waiting for it to spool? Seriously though, when you say there's something holding it up do you mean the top end or all the way across the board?

03-14-2008, 07:53 AM	#5
SilverSurfer04STi Scooby Specialist Member#: 71542 Join Date: Sep 2004 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Midwest Vehicle: 2013 WRB BRZ	Think he meant something is holding back overall expected power. Do you have pics of the custom Perrin TS header / uppipe?

03-14-2008, 08:01 AM	#7
shvrdavid Scooby Specialist Member#: 86078 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Central Pa. Vehicle: 2005 Sti 4094R Twin Scroll	Looking at the power curve, I would degree that cams and see where they are at... Looks to me like your centerlines are off... A .65 bar increase in boost pressure should be more than 55 whp... Thats an interesting printout you got... You don't see to many that show that low, 42whp @ 2100... Check your centerlines and go from there... It will take some experimenting to find the perfect centerline, but it will be well worth the effort in the end...

03-14-2008, 08:57 AM	#11
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: 3MI Racing LLC Vehicle: 96 bastard child search FIRST, then PM!!!	was there any port work done to the heads?

03-14-2008, 09:15 AM	#13
blowbyu24 Scooby Specialist Member#: 84482 Join Date: Apr 2005 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: PA / Element Tuning Vehicle: 2005 STI.UR gt4088r E85 pro comp sti	looking good Tino, i can't wait for your race gas tune....thats what i want 500whp on pump congrats!!!

03-14-2008, 01:22 PM	#16
Junior2JZ Scooby Guru Member#: 64908 Join Date: Jun 2004 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: Tuning 8/9sec Subies @ P&L Vehicle: 10.8 XT+ Real stock turbo record holder 11.4	25-26psi on pump I make 480-500whp on a DD. 29psi makes 550/60 on c16 and traps 132. 39psi it makes high 600s. I have to remove the muffler for that though.. Dies up top with it on. It doesnt keep climbing either it hits peak power and stays flat to 7500-8000.. This motor has 15,000 miles like this too.. Still runs and doesnt have broken or disrtorted sleeves from running "so much boost" Single Scroll 4088 Perrin EQ headers Built 2.0 Heads (All Ferrea parts + bigger valves) Crower Cams 2.5 stock sleeves, with Carrillo rods, Weisco Pistons, cosworth pump + bearings Stock reversed intake manifold, throttle body.. Ported TGV housing 3" borla hush 1100 CC injectors Custom Fuel System TXS UTEC + Stock ECU MBC 6spd and a single plate.. Dont worry about the dyno, see how it feels and take it to the track.. I know the graph seems laggy, but I bet it hits like a mac truck Junior

03-14-2008, 02:48 PM	#18
2REDSTARS Scooby Newbie Member#: 157777 Join Date: Aug 2007 Chapter/Region: South East Location: florida Vehicle: 2006 WRX TR WR Blue Pearl	just curious, why was it dyno'd in 5th gear? and also could you be losing pressure from that coupler leaking, and maybe thats robbing power?

03-14-2008, 05:41 PM	#19
cpturbo Scooby Specialist Member#: 49175 Join Date: Nov 2003 Vehicle: 2004 STI WRB	check for boost leaks first. Then ask your self what the next biggest restriction is. Look closely at the header for leaks and its overall runner size. Maybe the turbo wants more flow than you can give it on the exhaust side. I agree that you should be making >12hp per psi in that range. I wouldn't tune again until you figure this out.

03-14-2008, 07:06 PM	#20
engineerx Scooby Specialist Member#: 42614 Join Date: Sep 2003 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: Bullet-Dodging Fwy Los Angeles Vehicle: 0405 WRX STi/S2000 AspenWhite/Silverstone	^^^ What he said + The Perrin EL headers make nice power on the smaller turbos, for a large turbo like the GT40, the diameter of the runners on the header are too small in my opinion. They might be restricting flow to that large turbo. I'd try a different header. Didn't read whole thread, maybe some1 suggested this above.