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Old 02-26-2009, 08:38 AM   #301
tino
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^^^

So not much of an update.. Car has a few niggling issues trying to sort out. i.e brake vacumm still trying to route braided teflon lines to get enough vacumm ect, pulling decent vacuum (0.4 bar) but i want a lil more to bring it closer to stock (0.7 bar)... Might mean i need a larger tank, which ill sort out next time.

Not doing any power runs until all the niggly bits are sorted out..

Heres a vid that i just took of the TBs with the manifold off after i extended the brake vaccumm lines....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOkv6k3PCdg
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Old 02-26-2009, 11:09 AM   #302
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Do you have a lightweight flywheel on the car? I know first hand that this should be the first step for engine responsiveness before quads. 9lb flywheels are awesome. Looks like the Motec is paying dividends on the responsiveness compared to my Hydra. It doesn't appear to lean out at all when you gun it.

Have you pressure tested the manifold and TB system yet? If you have any leaks, this may be where your last bit of vacuum has gone. Please read over my previous post about vacuum tank volumes. I really don't think this is ever a solution to low vacuum.

Your vacuum coverts to about 12inHg and if you have an aggressive cam / headwork?, I think this may be the best you can get with your setup regardless of what you do. This should be plenty of vac for your brake assist.

How are you adjusting your idle? and what are you doing for idle control (if anything)?
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:39 PM   #303
tino
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bill I'm running a tilton lightened flywheel which came with my clutch.

The tune is not 100% but it's getting there has alot to do with the motec but more to due with the tuner.

I'm running cossie 264/278 cams so they are a decent size. I'm getting decent vacuum but I just want more. There dosent seem to be any leaks but I haven't flow tested it yet. Too much other stuff to do. I might need to get an electric vacuum tank for that extra bit of pressure.


Idle control can happen in more than one way. One ok the turntable. Two on each tb bank and three using the motec.
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Old 02-26-2009, 06:44 PM   #304
john 1badSTI
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what rpm and what afr do you have at idle,big non-avcs cams seem to like the afr around 13.6 to 13.9 at idle and 1100 rpm to make good vacuum in my experience.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:20 PM   #305
tino
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These are avcs cams so not sure if the same thing applies? Idle is set to around 1100rpm . Not sure of other settings.
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Old 02-26-2009, 07:23 PM   #306
john 1badSTI
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you should be ok my idle is 1100 and afr 14.5 at idle with 272/272 avcs kelfords but with a little more lift and a liitle bit more ramp and I pull about 14-15 inhg
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:29 PM   #307
tino
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^^^

Yes but u have a much larger plenum volume to which to draw brake vacuum.. I dont because of the itbs..
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Old 02-26-2009, 08:42 PM   #308
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
bill I'm running a tilton lightened flywheel which came with my clutch.

The tune is not 100% but it's getting there has alot to do with the motec but more to due with the tuner.

I'm running cossie 264/278 cams so they are a decent size. I'm getting decent vacuum but I just want more. There dosent seem to be any leaks but I haven't flow tested it yet. Too much other stuff to do. I might need to get an electric vacuum tank for that extra bit of pressure.


Idle control can happen in more than one way. One ok the turntable. Two on each tb bank and three using the motec.
thomas makes some nice, fairly small and fairly light 12v vacuum pumps that some guys use for hotrod setups with big cams...I use mine for collecting vegetable oil for the hungry diesel
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Old 02-26-2009, 09:48 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
^^^

Yes but u have a much larger plenum volume to which to draw brake vacuum.. I dont because of the itbs..
Volume means nothing, (please listen to what I am telling you). You wouldn't expect your air compressor to make more PSI just because you attach it to a larger tank would you? You have to either MAKE more vacuum (with ignition timing / tuning / less aggressive heads / optimal idle point) or loose less vacuum (fix leaks) to read a higher vacuum pressure.

A larger volume tank just allows you to store more of the same vacuum level you currently have. It will not and physically can not create more - pressure.
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Old 02-26-2009, 10:38 PM   #310
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Volume means nothing, (please listen to what I am telling you). You wouldn't expect your air compressor to make more PSI just because you attach it to a larger tank would you? You have to either MAKE more vacuum (with ignition timing / tuning / less aggressive heads / optimal idle point) or loose less vacuum (fix leaks) to read a higher vacuum pressure.

A larger volume tank just allows you to store more of the same vacuum level you currently have. It will not and physically can not create more - pressure.
Yes i do understand what ur saying but i would like more pressure for 1 and a bigger volume for 2. The reason for the bigger volume is for when jumping on the brake repeatedly during traffic. Does that make sense??
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Old 05-23-2009, 07:59 AM   #311
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Update: 23.05.2009

So there has not been an update on the cars progress for a few months now. The reason being was that i was having trouble with making power on the quad throttle bodies.

The quad itbs worked very well off boost with response dramatically increased over single large TB. I was very impressed at how well they actually worked. The issues occured when trying to throw boost into the system, where we could not make anymore power above 450 hp atw. There was a few speculations that the itbs dont actually work but infact hinder airflow around the entry to the ports.

It was realised by the help of a few people (bill from nasoic) that i infact had an air leak around the itbs preventing the turbo from being in its efficency and thus loss of power. I went about looking for these leaks and found that the lines to the brake vaccum tank had leaks which i remedied by changing from braided to rubber hose. This still however didnt solve the issue and meant that the itbs themself were leaking. I decided to change to a single TB for the meantime. When taking the itbs off we found there were leaks from the secondary injector ports where there was no seal holding them in. Under the tgvs where there was not a good seal formed and through a couple of bolt holes which exposed the TB shaft. This seems to be an easy fix and will get around to getting that sorted out and installed at a later date, but i just want to be able to enjoy the car and opted for a single TB.

Whilst all of this was happeneing i decided to go a single hypertune TB (which is amazingly built), and somehow found myself ordering a process west V-mount V2. The v-mount kit is built very well which is expected. The IC core is a little smaller than the huge perrin FMIC core but is still more than big enough imo.

I got around to installing the radiator and left the IC piping and other miscellanous things to a workshop. Im going to change the IC piping for a little more bling, but getting the v-mount setup was oringally not on the agenda so it was a little rushed.

Went to sean for a tune and due to the boost lines not being fed to the right lines correctly we were unable to do a full tune as boost could not be controlled accurately. However on a basic tune without much done to it we were able to pull 460 hp atw on only 1.4bar and importantly full boost at 4800 rpm compared to 5200 rpm. Lag we believe will come down further when we can controll boost correctly, throw in some timing and get the cams working properly. So i am excited to say the least as everything is coming together nicely.

Just on a little squirt this afternoon to fuel up for tomorrows driving the car feels so much more responsive and feels quicker than the old single TB manifold combo. When i mean quicker feels scary quicker at only 1.4 bar cant wait to see what 2 bar will do.

The v-mount radiator core is flowing very well and we were a little hesistant when the temp went over 90C at idle then crept up to 96C, however when the fans came on down she went quickly. On the dyno the fans did not come on at all with the temp staying on 90C throughout the dyno session suggesting that the stepped cores are teh way to go for v-mount setups.

So now waiting for a final tune in a couple of weeks to see if we can crack the 550 mark on pump and see how the manifold really compares. The manifold at this stage is flowing equal to the old manifold which is 2X smaller in capacity, but not sure how much the v-mount is contributing to reducing spool times.

I am finally taking the car out on a training day tomorrow which should be interesting and with a very safe tune should still be plenty of fun at 450 hp atw.

BTW do u like the v-mount setup minus the grill or with the grill.

Engine bay still needs a clean up which will happen in the following weeks, ready for a mag shoot.

More updates to come in the coming weeks, ready for a crack at that elusive 10sec slip..




















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Old 05-23-2009, 09:16 AM   #312
Rex05
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damn.
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Old 05-23-2009, 11:04 AM   #313
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Very Nice!
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Old 05-23-2009, 12:34 PM   #314
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love the setup with no grill, maybe some mesh tastefully done will look nice, a la the edm sti's grills top and bottom

sorry about that setup not working, i remember saying something about that long ago, just a little too good if it worked fully i'm sure you'll figure it out some day

car looks great!
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Old 05-23-2009, 04:10 PM   #315
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Nice set-up.

Did you have to eliminate power steering and/or AC, due to the reverse manifold ?
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Old 05-23-2009, 07:18 PM   #316
sku81
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good write up Tino...looking good,so now get some time's to go with the bling.

Kris
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Old 05-23-2009, 09:16 PM   #317
Steve.804
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Beautiful engine bay. That manifold looks sick.
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Old 05-24-2009, 07:42 AM   #318
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Man I was a very big fan of the ITB and was rooting for you. Sorry to hear you ran into some problems. I dig the V-mount without the grill, that's sexy. Get that beast fully tuned up and under control and lets see the power/times she makes!

Any chance of you trying to figure out those throttle bodies and possibly go back for another shot?
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:22 AM   #319
tino
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Went to AHG today which is a very small skid pan here in Perth.

The dual skid pan is obviously not suited to my setup but still fun to drive. Especially as it is my first time at a track. Could not really get out of second gear so couldnt enjoy the top end.

Heres a couple of vids of my runs for my first time out. Started to get a lil more agrressive once i was beggining to know the car and conditions.


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Old 05-24-2009, 09:29 AM   #320
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylepope519 View Post
Man I was a very big fan of the ITB and was rooting for you. Sorry to hear you ran into some problems. I dig the V-mount without the grill, that's sexy. Get that beast fully tuned up and under control and lets see the power/times she makes!

Any chance of you trying to figure out those throttle bodies and possibly go back for another shot?

Cheers mate. The itbs work imo, just need to solve the leak issues then it would work. But atm im enjoying driving the car and cant wait to get a complete tune done. So i wont want to really change anything in the mean time.
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Old 05-24-2009, 09:39 AM   #321
tino
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MxTurbo View Post
Nice set-up.

Did you have to eliminate power steering and/or AC, due to the reverse manifold ?
A/C is gone, who needs it anyway i got manual airconditioning

power steering is still there.
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:02 AM   #322
tino
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Update 08.06.2009

Well it seems my badluck with this car continues. Turbo seals have gone some how. Started engine up after sorting out engine bay and plumes of smoke visible for miles came out of the exhaust. Heart breaking and ramon can attest to my shattered nature thinking that it could be something worse than that.

So now looking to get another turbo or hopefully the least expensive way get the centre cartrige replaced.

I have done some major cleaning up of the engine bay all IC piping has been redone and engine bay sprayed to match the exterior.. Pretty crappy shots but looks much better than the rush job orginally done.

Just need my four resivoir tanks done and finished, and that should conclude the cars progress other than a surge tank system...






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Old 06-08-2009, 10:31 AM   #323
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I'm sorry to hear about the turbo, but atleast that's what was burning oil, you know?

On a brighter note the engine bay looks SEXY. The car is coming together very nice. I flippin' love your IC setup. Did you ever get the car figured out, and get it tuned up to make some sexy numbers? I don't think I saw that anywhere..
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:33 AM   #324
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^^^

Was supposed to go for the big final tune tomorrow . But on the old setup made 526 whp at 1.9 bar on around 91/93 and 575 on VP109 race fuel..

So the numbers are there, just want to see how this new setup responds..
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:35 AM   #325
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Did you have the intake manifold on last time you were on the dyno?
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