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Old 03-14-2008, 10:45 PM   #26
john 1badSTI
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tino,I think u may have to redisign the intake for one but just to be sure do you have a stock intake to try.Also it only takes the cams to be off 1 tooth to kill the spool by 800-1000 rpm and also kill power-you really cant degree the cams in on an avcs set-up.Just to let you know the cosworth int cams have 8 degrees of retard grnd into them so when the ecu takes out the advance up top you make more power.And im not a nooby I have tuned multible sti's with a utec or hydra to over 500whp on dynapack on 93/94 octane at 21-22 psi.
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Old 03-14-2008, 10:55 PM   #27
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tino,is it possible to get a look at a datalog from the 505hp pull?
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Old 03-14-2008, 11:40 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
tino,I think u may have to redisign the intake for one but just to be sure do you have a stock intake to try.Also it only takes the cams to be off 1 tooth to kill the spool by 800-1000 rpm and also kill power-you really cant degree the cams in on an avcs set-up.Just to let you know the cosworth int cams have 8 degrees of retard grnd into them so when the ecu takes out the advance up top you make more power.And im not a nooby I have tuned multible sti's with a utec or hydra to over 500whp on dynapack on 93/94 octane at 21-22 psi.
I dont have the log, ill have to speak to my tuner about that...

So how would u know that the cams are off by one tooth?? Because they have to be set to manufactors specs??


As for the intake, what do u think needs to be redesigned??
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Old 03-14-2008, 11:41 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by S L O W W R X View Post
Ding ding ding....we have a winner.

The header is way to small

I will look into getting the full race header and see if that helps..
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:19 AM   #30
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Default +1 on the Full-

Good idea on the Full-Race header, downpipe! I think this will really help you, a lot. Please do a boost leak check, though. It is so easy to do. It may take some time to actually get the manifold once you order it, though.

Good luck
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:22 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by tino View Post
hey junior, have u got a dyno printiout of ur pump run, want to see the torque... i think my toruqe is too low for the power that im running... Also was this with 0.86 or 1.06 rear housing??

cpturbo/ engineerx
Headers could be an issue, in terms of flow. The upipe has also similar diameters but as its a twin scroll is much much larger than a single scroll upipe...


Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
I will look into getting the full race header and see if that helps..
I made around 420ftlbs, which is pretty much exactly what you made. I think its that intake manifold. I would just throw a stock manifold on and watch the power come back. Also would help spool.
I dont think the headers will help much. . . IMO I have made almost 700whp with this same exact setup and found no issues with the Perrin EL header. Sinlgle scroll to boot.. I think I am pretty much maxed out in terms of power with this turbo.
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:52 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
I made around 420ftlbs, which is pretty much exactly what you made. I think its that intake manifold. I would just throw a stock manifold on and watch the power come back. Also would help spool.
I dont think the headers will help much. . . IMO I have made almost 700whp with this same exact setup and found no issues with the Perrin EL header. Sinlgle scroll to boot.. I think I am pretty much maxed out in terms of power with this turbo.
hmm junior were u running stock TB also??
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:34 AM   #33
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Also

If uve seen the video, the coupler that joins the IC to the TB is only rubber thats why u saw it flex like it did..

Now put ur engineering skills to practice..

Why did it expand??

1) Thermal properties i.e as the air is coming through so fast it heats up and expands and thus the rubber will expand also.

2) There is a restriction somewhere from the heads or manifold causing a builup of pressure. So the rubber is the weakest link and expands??

Which of those two could it be do u think??


The manifold flows 410cfm per runner and is supposed to flow 750hp..

Im thinking that if i get a silcone tube then it will force the flow through the manifold??
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Old 03-15-2008, 01:11 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by tino View Post
hmm junior were u running stock TB also??
Stock WRX TB as well..

Junior
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Old 03-15-2008, 03:39 PM   #35
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so it's a rubber connection and not a normal "silicone" connection?

that was the weirdest thing in that video seeing that expand like it did. definitely not normal. But, that's boost!
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Old 03-15-2008, 05:16 PM   #36
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yeah that was crazy!^
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Old 03-15-2008, 05:40 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by modaddict View Post
so it's a rubber connection and not a normal "silicone" connection?

that was the weirdest thing in that video seeing that expand like it did. definitely not normal. But, that's boost!

So could that be a reason for the bottleneck type of effect??
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Old 03-15-2008, 07:33 PM   #38
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Default Change the coupler and retune!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
So could that be a reason for the bottleneck type of effect??

Wow, I just watched that video. It looks like that coupler is expanding while the motor is trying to use all that good boost. The coupler is pissing the motor off and killing volumetric efficiency. It's kind of hard to push air through a motor that has a proximal low pressure system capturing all the boost . Change that coupler to a silicon hump hose or better yet a straight silicon and watch the power return to the predicted hp/psi.

Good luck.
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Old 03-15-2008, 08:50 PM   #39
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1.06 on a twinscroll is waaaay too small especially with headwork and cams, do a backpressure test on the turbine housing and will bet you your probably at a 2:1 ratio, you need to be about a 1.2 -1.5 max, and how are you running a TS system with a perrin header?????
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Old 03-15-2008, 08:53 PM   #40
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do you have a 4088 or 4094?
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:38 PM   #41
john 1badSTI
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tino,sorry it took so long to get back to you,first thing-ypur car is acting just like its a tooth off which is not hard to have happen if the heads and block have been machined because this will throw the line-up marks on the grs off a little which makes it possible to have them off by just a single tooth which will hurt spool and power.second -the plenum looks a little small for a turbo set-up that pushes that many lbs per min.,also you did not mention whether or not the intake has velocity stacks inside the plenum.If you talk to any intake manufacturer theyll tell you it usually takes quite a few prototypes before they get one that works the way it should.I really would like to see those logs I could figure out quite a bit from them.good luck and i just want to help you any way i can to get to the power level your after.
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Old 03-15-2008, 09:42 PM   #42
john 1badSTI
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I know a guy who ordered the twin-scrool manifold with the twinscroll up-pipe t3 and full-race told him 14 weeks and that was back in dec. and he still hasn't got it.
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:28 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpturbo View Post
Wow, I just watched that video. It looks like that coupler is expanding while the motor is trying to use all that good boost. The coupler is pissing the motor off and killing volumetric efficiency. It's kind of hard to push air through a motor that has a proximal low pressure system capturing all the boost . Change that coupler to a silicon hump hose or better yet a straight silicon and watch the power return to the predicted hp/psi.

Good luck.
Yeh thats what im thinking, that the coupler is robbing power away.. the size of the ic piping is 3" and the TB is 3 1/8 of an inch.. not sure why its wasnt just made to 3 1/8 inch in the first place. But it now needs to get flanged to 3 1/8 as there is no coupler which makes both those diameters as a flange..
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:33 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john 1badSTI View Post
tino,sorry it took so long to get back to you,first thing-ypur car is acting just like its a tooth off which is not hard to have happen if the heads and block have been machined because this will throw the line-up marks on the grs off a little which makes it possible to have them off by just a single tooth which will hurt spool and power.second -the plenum looks a little small for a turbo set-up that pushes that many lbs per min.,also you did not mention whether or not the intake has velocity stacks inside the plenum.If you talk to any intake manufacturer theyll tell you it usually takes quite a few prototypes before they get one that works the way it should.I really would like to see those logs I could figure out quite a bit from them.good luck and i just want to help you any way i can to get to the power level your after.

The plenum has been wet flow tested to 750 hp and the runners flow 410cfm almost double the 290cfm of stock, so thats why i think that it cant be the sole issue...

The manifold has velocity stacks...

As for the the cams ill ask them about that being a possible issue..

Also the logs i will try and get them so they can be viewed.. thanks for the help..

MRX... the headers are eqaul length and i got my workshop to fab an twin scroll header to make the whole system twin scroll...


and a 1.06 housing is actially quite big, UR and full race only use 0.85 A/R housings..
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Old 03-16-2008, 04:42 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Yeh thats what im thinking, that the coupler is robbing power away.. the size of the ic piping is 3" and the TB is 3 1/8 of an inch.. not sure why its wasnt just made to 3 1/8 inch in the first place. But it now needs to get flanged to 3 1/8 as there is no coupler which makes both those diameters as a flange..
check turbohoses.com as they have a reducing coupler for you.
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:02 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
The plenum has been wet flow tested to 750 hp and the runners flow 410cfm almost double the 290cfm of stock, so thats why i think that it cant be the sole issue...

The manifold has velocity stacks...

As for the the cams ill ask them about that being a possible issue..

Also the logs i will try and get them so they can be viewed.. thanks for the help..

MRX... the headers are eqaul length and i got my workshop to fab an twin scroll header to make the whole system twin scroll...


and a 1.06 housing is actially quite big, UR and full race only use 0.85 A/R housings..

we run 1.06 TS gt40's on built 2.0 l mitsu's making 700whp and they are marginal!! you really need to go bigger than a 1.06. a 1.06 TS/82 SS is really not that big, you can run that on a stock motor . do a backpressure test and you will see. once you start porting heads and running cams, your choke flow has to increase or else whats the point, fix your hose issue first and i bet it will still not run right. remember your car can only flow as much as its smallest choke and where is that??.........THE TURBINE HOUSING!!!
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Old 03-16-2008, 08:22 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
Micah the heads had a slight port and polish...
ok then...making sure that isn't what killed the VE's...check your cams...I think you timing is off...centerlines most likely.

I'm still not a fan of that intake manifold and the perrin header is rumored to have small runner diameters. I've never handled perrin's so I don't know the sizes or the collector volumes (be it small or large if any at all). Regardless I doubt either of those is causing an issue as prevalent as the one you are seeing.

I'd still check cams timing.
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:16 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
ok then...making sure that isn't what killed the VE's...check your cams...I think you timing is off...centerlines most likely.

I'm still not a fan of that intake manifold and the perrin header is rumored to have small runner diameters. I've never handled perrin's so I don't know the sizes or the collector volumes (be it small or large if any at all). Regardless I doubt either of those is causing an issue as prevalent as the one you are seeing.

I'd still check cams timing.
I measured the perrins they go from a smaller diameter into 38mm IDA primaries.. so bigger than standard..

I will put the silicone joiner on chuck it on the dyno and see how it goes. Then investigate other issues..
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:38 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebanese rally champ View Post
Im sure that with racing fuel u'll get some great numbers,coz ur fuel is like ours in Lebanon(Total 98 unleaded) & it is much less octane to 91 california,i think its around 88 octane max

pls do it soon & keep us updated.

Actually 98 RON, what we have in Europe and basically everywhere except the US, is equivalent to 93 MON.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:53 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tino View Post
I measured the perrins they go from a smaller diameter into 38mm IDA primaries.. so bigger than standard..
I measured my exhaust setup...

The smallest diameter on my Ultimate Racing setup is 46mm at the v-band couplers for the up-pipe... Head pipes are 48mm inside diameter...
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