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Old 03-16-2008, 12:43 PM   #1
Brad Pittiful
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Default A car that is powered by air.

some guy i work with told me aboot this

part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-A3XHFT5qc


part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8aZVLpf-c


search yielded nada
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:10 PM   #2
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Car engine runs off compressed air. How is that air compressed? With fossil fuels.

I didn't watch the video yet(watching now), but most of the people I've talked to act like it generates power by 'sucking it' from the air outside. No, they fill a tank by a generator thats plugged into the wall, which is powered by fossil fuels. If its in France, its probably nuclear, which is better.

Oh yeah, and I heard somewhere that air engines are super inefficient.
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JjSwee View Post
Car engine runs off compressed air. How is that air compressed? With fossil fuels.

I didn't watch the video yet(watching now), but most of the people I've talked to act like it generates power by 'sucking it' from the air outside. No, they fill a tank by a generator thats plugged into the wall, which is powered by fossil fuels. If its in France, its probably nuclear, which is better.

Oh yeah, and I heard somewhere that air engines are super inefficient.


well its a typical case of someone not giving a **** how ___ works, so long as they get their product and feel happy. Like diamonds, fur, sweatshop clothing, and so on


"My carbon footprint is 0!!111"



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Old 03-16-2008, 01:31 PM   #4
Brad Pittiful
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im just happy this could be a big F U to the oil companies...until they buy it all up and then have this as a monopoly...those bastards
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:51 PM   #5
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The air can be compressed in multiple ways. Directly from a wind 'pump' for instance. Stored overnight/whatever.

The air 'could' be compressed by fossil fuels. BUT the combustion of those fuels would be taking place in a 'probably' more efficient matter and AWAY FROM TOWN. Downtown being where much of the concentrated pollution is.

It DOES compress atmospheric air. With regenerative braking! (not a lot I think.)

I think the aircar could have potential for extremely polluted cities.

I dunno. It's a much better idea than some that are around.


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Old 03-16-2008, 02:23 PM   #6
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I'm a fan of the second engine the most. Possibly utilizing a similar 3-rotor setup, might yield better performance out of the engine.

But then again, the efficiency of these air cars are roughly 1/3 that of an electric car. So we'll have to see how it all plays out, and whether major auto companies will buy the technology.



http://www.efcf.com/reports/E18.pdf
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:14 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mr_Hox View Post
I'm a fan of the second engine the most. Possibly utilizing a similar 3-rotor setup, might yield better performance out of the engine.

But then again, the efficiency of these air cars are roughly 1/3 that of an electric car. So we'll have to see how it all plays out, and whether major auto companies will buy the technology.



http://www.efcf.com/reports/E18.pdf


That assumes; wind power->electric generator->electric motor->air compressor (and I don't know if they were using an air powered vehicle with regen braking capability - too lazy to read thru it all! lol!)

Suppose we examined; windpower->air compressor efficiencies?


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Old 03-16-2008, 03:23 PM   #8
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Some propaganda from their site;

http://www.theaircar.com/acf/air-car...y-storage.html

*****Advantages of compressed air as an energy vector
A vehicle powered by compressed air offers a lot of advantages in comparison with a normal combustion engine or an electrical motor.

The idea of using compressed air as an energy vector can, for example, also by applied to a hybrid vehicle, with cylinders functioning on compressed air and an additional battery working on electricity, creating a vehicle powered solely on electrical-pneumatic propulsion.

Advantages of vehicles powered by compressed air:

* The costs involved to compress the air to be used in a vehicle are inferior to the costs involved with a normal combustion engine.
* Air is abundant, economical, transportable, storable and, most importantly, nonpolluting.
* The technology involved with compressed air reduces the production costs of vehicles with 20% because it is not necessary to assemble a refrigeration system, a fuel tank, spark plugs or silencers.
* Air itself is not flammable
* The mechanical design of the motor is simple and robust
* It does not suffer from corrosion damage resulting from the battery.
* Less manufacturing and maintenance costs.
* The tanks used in an air compressed motor can be discarded or recycled with less contamination than batteries.
* The tanks used in a compressed air motor have a longer lifespan in comparison with batteries, which, after a while suffer from a reduction in performance. *****


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Old 03-16-2008, 03:32 PM   #9
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can't they stack those rotary air motors for more power?
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:32 PM   #10
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The biggest problem with compressed air is the energy density of the storage tanks. Even with advanced materials, you're looking 4000lb or so worth of air tanks to match the energy content of a normal gas tank. Obviously that's not gonna happen, so compressed air cars will have to make do with very small tanks.

That means drivers would have to be able to recharge them at home, because noone wants to spend 10 minutes at a "compressed air station" every other day. Because of the small range they could only be used as city cars.
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Old 03-16-2008, 03:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bal00 View Post
The biggest problem with compressed air is the energy density of the storage tanks. Even with advanced materials, you're looking 4000lb or so worth of air tanks to match the energy content of a normal gas tank. Obviously that's not gonna happen, so compressed air cars will have to make do with very small tanks.

That means drivers would have to be able to recharge them at home, because noone wants to spend 10 minutes at a "compressed air station" every other day. Because of the small range they could only be used as city cars.
Yeah, unless part of a hybrid system - city car only I think.

this site is better than the one i posted above;

http://www.mdi.lu/eng/affiche_eng.php?page=accueil
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:45 PM   #12
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If they couldmake this so that there is a reasonable range (~100mi) of a full "tank" then I could see this working quite well. There is a lot less recycling issues from a car like this than a pure electric or hybrid.

I doubt that they would be able to manufacture it to meet crash standards though.

And I seriously doubt the "200km from $2 worth of electricity" claim from the video. If that were the case, they wouldn't be able to make enough of them to satisfy demand.
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Pittiful View Post
im just happy this could be a big F U to the oil companies...until they buy it all up and then have this as a monopoly...those bastards
some of those oil companies are part of our infrastructure/economy, why would we F U ourselves, wanna end up like mexico
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skell View Post
some of those oil companies are part of our infrastructure/economy, why would we F U ourselves, wanna end up like mexico
F U to U if U dont want to F U the oil companies...F U u FUer
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Old 03-16-2008, 08:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WindexLeggy View Post
And I seriously doubt the "200km from $2 worth of electricity" claim from the video. If that were the case, they wouldn't be able to make enough of them to satisfy demand.
Figure 200km at 100km/hour at 25 hp $.11 per KWH and there are .746KW/HP at 100% efficiency. Let X be efficiency

200km/100(km/h)= 2 hours

thats 2 hours * $.11 * 25* (.746/X) = $2

X = 205.15% Efficiency

at 15HP X = 123% Efficiency

Holy Perpetual Motion Batman!

Roy

Want to say FU to the oil companies buy a bike...
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Old 03-16-2008, 09:26 PM   #16
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As an FYI, If you convert the value of gasoline to kw*h, and assume a very kind ICE efficiency of 30%, you'll find that energy from gasoline via an ICE is about $0.29/kW-h.
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Old 03-17-2008, 12:12 AM   #17
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oh god, but what bout the price of air! just kidding
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:17 AM   #18
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oh god, but what bout the price of air! just kidding
price h3ll! What about TAXING it?


hah!

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Old 03-17-2008, 09:17 AM   #19
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well if this is a hit, no one will have to pay for compressed air for their tires at a gas station again...though, after filling your tires you might not be able to make it home...


Did anyone see this on FutureCar? their bit about this car is what made me stop watching that show...I realized it was just a show for environmentalists to bash cars and give poorly thought out alternatives that don't meet people's needs. Anyways, the bit about this car mentioned that you can plug it in and it'll compress its own air over night, basically having the engine run in reverse. then they said, there are even plans to include an electric air compressor on the car itself that could run off the cars electricity generated from the compressed air. and then the commentator says "And there you go, round and round, perpetual motion"

the logic of that is revolting. hmmm why didn't anyone think of this before? hey we could have electric generators on electric cars and they'll never have to be charged up, right? ugh.

also, were they saying that their car could eventually be paired up with an electric drivetrain to make a pneumatic-electric hybrid, and then 1/3 of the list of advantages is that it doesn't have a battery? Do they realize, that to make an electric hybrid, they need to add an even BIGGER battery than what most cars have? take away that "advantage" and all the other things in the list boil down to reduced cost...so why don't they just make the car really cheap, and see if anyone will buy it for cheap? my guess is, it wouldn't do so well....
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Old 03-17-2008, 09:18 AM   #20
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replace gas tank with air tank
replace volatility of gas with high pressure air tank
etc...


The bad parts, air dont measure up with the electric motor in terms of usability, range, etc.

the good parts are, filling an air tank is really quick, maintenance can be low if the air is filtered properly.

the best part, you get that whoosh sound and could even install a BOV!!!
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