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Old 03-16-2008, 02:07 PM   #1
subysouth
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Default Flashing CEL and.....

the following 4 codes

P0301
P0302
P0303
P0304
(misfire on all four cylinders)

=

coil pack?

Thanks
ss
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Old 03-16-2008, 02:21 PM   #2
fastlanerex
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Are you asking if it could be your coilpacks??? If so, yes it can be your coilpacks. But there are many other factors to fueling, timing, your tune if you have one. give us a mod list please.
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Old 03-16-2008, 02:21 PM   #3
sopmoney
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flahing cel i thoght was knock?
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Old 03-16-2008, 02:30 PM   #4
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did this happen right after you did/changed/installed something?

did your air filter get wet?

did you pop an ic hose?

did you get a bad tank of gas?
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:17 PM   #5
subysouth
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all good questions lemme give some more background.

My car is a 1997 2.5 GT NA Phase 1 motor with nothing more than a grounding mod on the engine.

About 2 months ago the CEL came on(not flashing) and I had the code pulled at AZ and it came back P0420 - cat inefficiency. Didnt have it cleared and it didnt concern me a lot as I had as exhaust leak too. The CEL went off of its own volition about 3 days later. Had the exhaust leak repaired about a month ago and cleared the code. About three weeks ago it came back on solid(pulled the 420 code again) was on about 3 days and went off of its own volition. About 2 weeks ago it came back on and stayed on for a week, I had it pulled and this time it came back P0420(cat inefficiency) and P0325(knock sensor circuit malfunction.) I ordered a knock sensor, cleared the codes and headed for a short run outta town. On the way back into town the CEL came on flashing this time. When I got back into town, I picked up the new knock sensor(didnt check the codes this time - I know mistake) and put on the new knock sensor and cleared the codes again. About 5 days later(yesterday) light comes back on and flashing again and its reading the 4 codes above and nothing else, no P0420 or P0325.

Plugs and wires are at about 12k miles, coil is original to the car. 197k on the engine. New HGs and head rebuild about 30k ago.

ss
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:21 PM   #6
subysouth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Penguin View Post
did this happen right after you did/changed/installed something?

did your air filter get wet?

did you pop an ic hose?

did you get a bad tank of gas?
I had just installed the new knock sensor but the CEL had flashed before I installed it.

No.

No, dont have one.

Unknown, unlikely given the spread geographically but not impossible because I didnt pull the code the first time it flashed returning to town.

ss
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Old 03-17-2008, 01:17 AM   #7
Arctic Penguin
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did you ovre torque the sensor and break it when you installed it?

has happened

did that once
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Penguin View Post
did you ovre torque the sensor and break it when you installed it?
But did your (Penguin) car simultaneously misfire all 4 because you broke it? Sounds logical, knock sensor can pull timimg and it happened right after the new sensor install...but I'd think all he'd get from a broken sensor is a PO325 malfunction code again.

What about the timing belt?
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Old 03-17-2008, 08:45 AM   #9
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water bath the ignition system, primarily the coil. Prob has a crack. I wouldnt rule out the wires. my .02 misfires can cause p0420, never heard of a p0420 causing mis. And if it was timing belt it would have manifested itself as soon as the head gaskets were done.
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Old 03-17-2008, 10:43 AM   #10
subysouth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arctic Penguin View Post
did you ovre torque the sensor and break it when you installed it?

has happened

did that once
Nope, torqued it to 14lbs-ft per the book.

Some new info here, late last night I finally had a chance to take a closer look at the coil itself and run the standard checks on it. I parked it figuring it had to be bad but based on you guys suggestions I went back to take a look.

I tested it for voltage and resistance through the circuit which were both fine. When I pulled the #1 plug lead tho I think I found what I think/hope was the problem. The #1 lead appeared to be connected but the lead itself had come loose from the coil and pulled back inside the boot without outwardly appearing to be disconnected. There was way to much tension on the spark plug line itself and I gave it some more slack through the retainers.

An arc storm had clearly gone on as part of the coil tip was melted and the inside of that coil connection and the spark plug lead were both blackened. I cleaned all the connections for good measure and put it back together. The static coil resistances themselves checked out fine.

I cleared the codes and took it for a short run with no CEL yet. Will report back. It will be interesting to see if a single loose coil lead and an arc storm at one coil post would cause a misfire code at each cylinder. Anyone know where the ECU pulls the misfire code from physically on the engine?

ss
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Old 03-18-2008, 01:34 PM   #11
subysouth
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Well, it came back - all four codes and not flashing this time, just a solid CEL. I pulled it about 5 minutes after it came on, so its sending/reading those simultaneously or near so.

I came home and checked all the coil terminals and all were tight with no burning visible. So I am wondering if that loose connection at terminal one could have permanently damaged the coil itself in some way thats not showing up in a static test(with the engine off.)

And as a stranger backdrop to all this, the car is running fine. No missing or stumbling that I can tell. So its reading a misfire at all four but it doesnt seem to be misfiring.

Again I am sure curious to know where/how it reads a misfire and is the coil itself back at the top of the list?

ss
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Old 03-22-2008, 01:45 PM   #12
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Bump. Its flashing again. Same 4 codes - instantly.

So the coil is still an option. Can anyone think of anything else?

ss
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:40 PM   #13
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So I was right to be a little confused then.

Nobody else has seen this eh?

ss
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Old 03-26-2008, 02:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sopmoney View Post
flahing cel i thoght was knock?
Flashing CEL means cataytic converter damage is taking place due to the misfires.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:24 PM   #15
subysouth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haelan View Post
Flashing CEL means cataytic converter damage is taking place due to the misfires.
Yea, its definitely misfiring but does anyone have any ideas where to go at this point. I think I can safely rule out bad gas, wet filter, etc. and in my mind thats leaving the firing side. Its unlikely all four plugs and/or wires would have catastrophically failed at the same time I am thinking. So Im left thinking coil and/or ignitor.

I was just kinda hoping someone else had seen this same series of codes pop up as my experience has lead me to believe no Subaru is alone in its breakages.

ss
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:39 PM   #16
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Since ignition coils are expensive, have you eliminated everything from the fuel side? Fuel filter?
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:13 PM   #17
subysouth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jey View Post
Since ignition coils are expensive, have you eliminated everything from the fuel side? Fuel filter?
I havent tired the fuel filter, you think that might cause a misfire on all four cylinders?

ss
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subysouth View Post
I havent tired the fuel filter, you think that might cause a misfire on all four cylinders?

ss
At higher engine loads it could. Are you WOT when the misfires occur?
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:31 PM   #19
subysouth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haelan View Post
At higher engine loads it could. Are you WOT when the misfires occur?
I explore the higher end of the rev range fairly regularly but each time the light itself comes on IIRC the car has been at standard temp and stable highway revs(3100-3700.) If there is any kinda lag in the CEL system that might be viable. Im not feeling any stumbling or power loss at any of the revs tho, thats the confusing part.

ss
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:11 PM   #20
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You'd bog down pretty good at higher revs with a clogged fuel filter.

I definitely think it's fuel related or belt related for all 4 cylinders to be complaining--intermittent fuel pump failure? Timing belt skip a couple teeth?
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:01 PM   #21
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could be a cam or crank sensor starting to fail, they are cheap maybe you should replace them anyways i have seen many issues with them in car aroud your year. are the wire aftermarket or oem? what plugs are you using? Are you sure the plugs are tight? very well could be the coil
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:52 PM   #22
jey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novacivic View Post
could be a cam or crank sensor starting to fail, they are cheap maybe you should replace them anyways i have seen many issues with them in car aroud your year.
Not cheap enough. One was ~$25 and the other almost $50 at the dealer. Though you could pull them and clean them and see if that does anything.

One more free things to check: Vaccuum leaks - I've had small vaccuum leaks throw misfires.
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Old 04-07-2008, 02:07 PM   #23
subysouth
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Its not the coil. Working my way down the list....

ss
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Old 07-06-2008, 12:31 PM   #24
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How's this going?
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Old 07-06-2008, 02:55 PM   #25
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my guess is cam sensor
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