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Old 03-19-2008, 08:49 AM   #1
Speedwagon
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Default Hard to start this morning

Another question on this '92 L. She didn't want to start this morning. 2.2 5 speed... seemed like when I pushed on the gas, it wanted to start more, but it could have just been because it was a few cranks in. Finally did start, and the car idle slowly crept up. The idle started off very weak though.

I was thinking it might be a valve lash issue, but doesn't this engine use hydraulic adjusters? There is some ticking while it runs. The car also bogs badly on occasion coming off the line, if I don't keep the RPMs about 2k or so. Occasional miss feeling too, and I did just replace the plugs and wires.
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Old 03-19-2008, 01:23 PM   #2
MYfirst00
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Have you checked your voltage on your battery and alternator?
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:20 PM   #3
Speedwagon
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I have not, since I just got it yesterday. But it wasn't cranking slow, just wouldn't turn over.
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:52 PM   #4
jey
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Next thing I would check/replace is the fuel filter.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:12 PM   #5
Wiscon_Mark
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Was it real wet? Did this seem like a one time issue, or has it steadily been getting worse?
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:21 PM   #6
Speedwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiscon_Mark View Post
Was it real wet? Did this seem like a one time issue, or has it steadily been getting worse?
Pfft.. wet... I just moved to Colorado, nothing is wet out here. So no, it wasn't wet, no frost on the windows. Just cold, around the freezing mark I'd say.

I am going to replace the fuel filter tonight, and see how that works. I also noticed today when I stopped for gas, that the oil level is WAY too full. So I'm going to recheck that tonight as well, and drain the oil is needed.

And if you reread Mark... "I just got it yesterday" meaning, I just bought it yesterday.

Last edited by Speedwagon; 03-19-2008 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:26 PM   #7
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Yeah, it reads WAY too full because the engine was hot, and they never read accurate then. It had me believing that I put 6 quarts in, which wasn't the case.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:34 PM   #8
Speedwagon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiscon_Mark View Post
Yeah, it reads WAY too full because the engine was hot, and they never read accurate then. It had me believing that I put 6 quarts in, which wasn't the case.
It was a good couple of INCHES above the full mark. Not just a bit past.
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:33 PM   #9
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Exactly. It reads absurdly above, way too high for a slight error or overfill. The dipstick isn't very accurate on EJ engines.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:57 PM   #10
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I checked again when the engine was cold, it was at the same level.
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:47 AM   #11
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M,

Sounds like you've landed in CO okay. BTW - What happened to the 99 Speedwagon?

Cold start issues: Low battery output, poor ground, too heavy viscosity oil, etc.

Poor running issues: Sounds like a clogged cat but could also be an injector issue as well. How many miles on this new addition?

SBT
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Old 03-20-2008, 08:46 AM   #12
Speedwagon
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I've still got the speedwagon, bought this car for my sister.

It is a cheap ass walmart battery, haven't done a ground mod, and oil did NOT seem to thick. But I changed it with 5w-30, and issues are still there.

233K miles on the car. I washed it yesterday, to include under the engine. The problem came back right away, and everytime the car went to idle, I had to rev it up to at least 2-3k before I could engage the clutch. It didn't make the issue worse, only more apparent. So adding water under the hood makes this problem more prevalent... and I did change the fuel filter last night.

I suppose it could be a clogged cat, but I can run WOT without too much problem. It seems to be more of an issue at constant speed, and sometimes(or always when wet) under 2k rpm while engaging the trans in 1st. It bogs down REAL heavy sometimes then, other times its ok.

edit: Forgot to mention, when it was hard to start yesterday afternoon when leaving work, I pushed in on the gas pedal, and that made it start. It idled very low, and after waiting for the idle to stabilize, it worked fine.

Last edited by Speedwagon; 03-20-2008 at 09:39 AM.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:55 AM   #13
jey
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Wet misfiring could be an issue with your ignition coil pack. Kind of an expensive part to replace though. I'd check a few other things:

- Air filter
- Clean the MAF
- Clean the IAC
- Check for vacuum leaks. Some are hard to hunt down, and they are a pain on these older cars. I have a vacuum leak on my Purge Control Solenoid - for a long time I couldn't figure out for the life of me why the car misfired every time I got gas or was cruising on the highway for more than 20 minutes. I also have a vacuum leak on my MAP sensor/regulator (there's a little MAP sensor that does something in addition to the main MAF on the intake) and the car bogs when water hits it - almost like it something shorts out and opens a vacuum leak.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:51 AM   #14
Speedwagon
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But it doesn't feel like a misfire when it's bogging. It feels like a bad mixture. Kind of like when my bike isn't warmed up, and I open the throttle and it bogs down. THAT is what the car feels like. But I can't make it do it all the time, only sometimes...

Except when I washed it, then it did it consitently for about 5 minutes afterwards. I got a check engine light intermitently at that point, it would bog off idle up to 2k rpm, then it would act normal.

Once yesterday when leaving a stop light, the car bogged down in first, right off the line. It felt like it was going to stall, so I pushed in the clutch and revved the engine... but I couldn't just rev it. I had to do a blip, blip, blip for the engine to recover, then it was fine once I got it over about 2k rpm.
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:00 PM   #15
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When I start my car, which now has an EJ22, it runs RICH. I don't know enough about cars, but whatever is making my car run so RICH may be adjusted in the opposite manner on yours, making it tough to start.

Also, my car will bog off the line sometimes too under 2K. That is the biggest thing I've noticed different between the POS 2.5L that was in it and this one...I have to drive it higher in the RPM band to have much power.

JS
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:08 PM   #16
jey
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Pull the CEL code if you got one, it should help narrow this down.
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Old 03-20-2008, 09:07 PM   #17
Speedwagon
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There's no way all of these are recent...

42
22
31
11
13


But I think it gave me 42 first, so possibly the order from the most recent backwards?
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:21 PM   #18
jey
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42: Idle switch or circuit
22: Knock sensor or circuit
31: Throttle position sensor or circuit
11: Crank angle sensor or circuit
13: Cam position sensor or circuit

Sounds like you've got a short in your main wiring, especially if it's aggrevated by water in the engine bay.
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Old 03-21-2008, 12:27 PM   #19
Speedwagon
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Well I just pulled the front of the engine because of a major oil leak up there. And the crank keyway is a bit messed up. I could rotate the crank sprocket slightly, and there is oil EVERYWHERE behind the timing belt cover.
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:37 AM   #20
Speedwagon
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Right, so, all the problems were timing related. After fixing the crank sprocket and pulley(along with the oil leak), and car now runs great! It did throw a CEL at me on and off a few times tonight, so I'll check that tomorrow morning.
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