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Old 04-05-2008, 03:26 AM   #1
rallymarty
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Default Anybody installed the "Subaru" 4/2 pot calipers? If so, step inside

I have been thinking about doing a 4 / 2 pot conversion to my 02 wrx. Is this swap really worth it or would I be better off spending my money on other parts? I have to install some new pads and buy some new rotors anyway and I've kind of thought of just doing the swap to these calipers. Is the pedal feel "better", easier to modulate? Any arguments for advantages and disadvantages (before I spend my ever weakening dollars!)?

I know the front calipers bolt onto the the same brackets, but the rears are different and require new backing plates or the kartboy brackets, is this correct? I guess the kartboy brackets require the removal of the stock backing plate?

How labor intensive is the swap of the backing plates? Is this just an unbolt and remove type part or is the e-brake going to need to be messed with also.

I don't have a service manual to see an exploded view of the assembly so I was looking for experienced installers to inform me of what I could be in for labor wise. Thanks for your help
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:34 AM   #2
Butt Dyno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rallymarty View Post
I have been thinking about doing a 4 / 2 pot conversion to my 02 wrx. Is this swap really worth it or would I be better off spending my money on other parts?
Start with the rules for the forum... namely what you plan on using the car for and/or what you don't like about the stock brakes. That's the only way we can tell you if it is worth it.

I don't have em - as I understand it there are two benefits:
-pedal feel should be improved (but ultimately limited by the dual stage brake booster)
-4 pots generate less torque than stock 02-03 front brakes so you get more bias to the rear

Drawbacks:
-$$
-wheel fitment (need a spacer or aftermarket wheels on a bugeye)

If you have no issues w/ your brakes I would just buy cheap rotors, Axxis Deluxe pads and call it a day

Official brake upgrade FAQ:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1154081
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:11 AM   #3
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SS Lines
Good pads
Good fluid
H6 rear upgrade (only if you want that rearward bias)

Same effect and lots cheaper than the 4pots/2pots
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Old 04-05-2008, 09:57 AM   #4
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the Kartboy adapter just requires the removal of the outer dust shield- five or six spot welds that need drilled out is all- the H6 conversion in the rear requires the same step (both are 290mm rotors and won't fit w/ the dust shield made for the oe 266mm ones)

clearly there are advantages going to the 4/2 pots BUT is the $ worth the price for those small advantages- probably for some, probably not for others
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Old 04-05-2008, 01:17 PM   #5
Butt Dyno
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You don't have to remove the dust shield for the H6 rotors, just BFH it until the rotor clears
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Old 04-05-2008, 01:22 PM   #6
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You don't have to remove the dust shield for the H6 rotors, just BFH it until the rotor clears
that'd work too
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Old 04-05-2008, 08:07 PM   #7
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It's only worth it IMHO if you are after the factor. I feel your pain though. You do all kinds of mods to make the car look sweet and stare through the wheels and see the ugly ass stock calipers. I'm opting for the pads/fluid/H6 upgrade route.
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Old 04-05-2008, 11:04 PM   #8
rallymarty
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thanks for the opinions guys (i wanted some fresh ones) as i was thinking of just doing the H6 mod first and then "visions of four pistons started dancing in my head". i think i'm just going to go back to my original plans of just upgrading the rears to the H6s (since i could use some new ones) to gain some rearward bias. i've been running some mid grade pads (ebc) with ss lines (i think i have air in the system) and have been quite happy with the performance (the pedal feels great, after a pump...). i just really wanted to see what 4/2 pot owners really thought of the setup after the swap. $1000+ is a lot of money (to me at least) to install and try out a new setup and not like it.
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:23 AM   #9
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So if the 4pots generate less tq up front then it should move bias towards the rear a bit? essentially doing the same as factory brakes up front with h6 in the rear if I'm reading right?
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:50 AM   #10
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Yes but by DECREASING front brake torque with the 4 pots you are moving bias rearward. However the H6 upgrade INCREASES rear torque to move the bias rearward. I would rather increase rear torque than decrease front torque. It just doesn't LOOK as nice.
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:50 AM   #11
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if you only did the four pots that's correct- they have smaller pistons vs the oe sliders, if you do the 4/2 (or 4/H6) then you'll move even more as your going from a 266->290mm rotor in both cases
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:51 AM   #12
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meh- I type too slow
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Old 04-06-2008, 11:55 AM   #13
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It's ok... I know you guru's slow down a little as you get older
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Old 04-06-2008, 05:29 PM   #14
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so true

Figured I'd list a few subtle differences between the oe sliders and the 4/2 pots- as mentioned above the biggie is the feel of the opposed pistons- at or near the limit opposed pistons are easier to modulate (hence the reason most race calipers are opposed piston designs)- there are a few more- the 4/2 pots are a little lighter (not much about a lb/corner), the caliper design of the opposed piston likely makes them slightly more rigid, pads are easier/quicker to change, more pads available- especially in the track variety, tend to get more even pad wear w/ opposed pistons (not day to day driving- talking heavy braking here) and you can find several 15" wheels that will fit w/ the 4/2's and not w/ the oe sliders

these differences are pretty minor though, the 2/1 sliders w/ the right pads and the H6 rear rotors will perform pretty damn good
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Old 04-06-2008, 09:57 PM   #15
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Okay, I have used the crappy USDM brakes, 4/2 pots and the Brembo's. A few points:

1. Wheel fitiment is different with these than with the stock USDM brakes, some wheels that fit with one will not fit with the other and vice versa, so the 4 pots don't have worse fitment per se. They will not fit some of the stock 16" subaru rims though
2. Pedal feel is most definitely much better than the USDM brakes, and surprisingly also better than the STi's stock gold Brembos
3. If you upgrade the rear to H6 and keep the stock USDM brakes the feel will not be as good as with the 4/2 pots, but the braking balance will be similar
4. 4/2 pots have 2 different discs that you can buy for the rear, one to fit r160 and another to clear the r180 parking brake. This will help those doing 6 speed swaps in the future. The reason for this is that the stock 4/2 pots are the same brakes that are used in the "gravel" kit for STi's that rally in group N, etc. If you are not running really sticky tires on tarmac, or repeatedly braking from high speeds on tarmac, the brembo's might be a bit much
5. You may want ask yourself is would you rather upgrade to something like Stoptech which is a very good resonable cost option for your WRX if you will track. For daily driving I found the 4/2 pots to be pretty much perfect with upgraded pads and very quiet, unlike Brembo's. However, if you track the car you will get quite a bit of fade.
6. If you sometimes travel out of the country, consider buying a used set in UK, China, etc. as the used for pots tend to sell for the equivalent of 650 CDN complete with disc rotors and pads, since they come stock on our WRXs.
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Old 04-06-2008, 10:00 PM   #16
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I wa wondering how this compares tot he stoptech rotor and pad upgrade as well
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Old 04-07-2008, 12:40 AM   #17
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edit: nvm

Last edited by fengrr; 04-07-2008 at 02:05 AM.
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:17 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
You don't have to remove the dust shield for the H6 rotors, just BFH it until the rotor clears
I removed mine. It's spot welds, so BFH worked just as well to just rip the sucker off, rather than bother having an ugly, bent shield.





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Old 04-07-2008, 08:20 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
-wheel fitment (need a spacer or aftermarket wheels on a bugeye)

Oh, for anyone who doesn't know yet, 1998-2001 2.5RS wheels are 16x7" and 53mm offset, and WILL clear these 4-pot front calipers, whereas the 16x6.5" 2002-2005 WRX/RS/TS/i wheels will not. This is common knowledge, but I figured I'd repeat it for the n00bs. I'm in a good mood.

1998 = 5-spoke gold
1999 = 5-spoke silver
2000-2001 = 6-spoke silver
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Old 04-07-2008, 08:25 AM   #20
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Who has used the 4pots up front with oem brakes in the rear? Thats what I'm looking to do. I have no intention of putting the 2pots in the rear. I was just looking to see what peoples opinion were of 4pots front with oem rears.
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Old 04-07-2008, 09:02 AM   #21
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I drove my cousin's 03 sedan which during his 4/2 pot swap had the 4 pots in front and the stockers in back for about 2 weeks, before he got the 2 pots rebuilt. I really didn't care for it. It did shift the bias rearward but @ the expense of less front bite, and to me the brake feel was a little iffy. It almost felt like if I had needed to make an emergency stop I may not be able to stop in time. Just my 2 Lincolns.
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Old 04-07-2008, 09:05 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjs0433 View Post
Who has used the 4pots up front with oem brakes in the rear? Thats what I'm looking to do. I have no intention of putting the 2pots in the rear. I was just looking to see what peoples opinion were of 4pots front with oem rears.
I ran them w/ the H6 in the rear- was a good combo IMO I never ran them w/ just the 266's back there as I has already done the H6 prior to the 4 pots
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Old 04-07-2008, 09:52 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuikWgn View Post
I drove my cousin's 03 sedan which during his 4/2 pot swap had the 4 pots in front and the stockers in back for about 2 weeks, before he got the 2 pots rebuilt. I really didn't care for it. It did shift the bias rearward but @ the expense of less front bite, and to me the brake feel was a little iffy. It almost felt like if I had needed to make an emergency stop I may not be able to stop in time. Just my 2 Lincolns.
sounds more like poor pad selection or ur used to a better brake setup. A friends GG with 4 pot/Bobcats and stock rears(pad unknown) hauled us down from 65 to a standstill amazingly fast. OK, not amazingly, but surprisingly. He plans to finally install STi brembos all around w/ the kartboy bracket iirc this summer.

I upgraded both my GM and GF to teh 4/2 setup. this was worthwhile, but expensive, but far superoir to the 9"/8" original setups. if it was smaller change, the h6 would be a more cost effective solution. u just lose the vented rear design.
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Old 04-07-2008, 10:06 AM   #24
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It was on stock pads/lines/fluid/4 pots front/stocks rear and re70's and my wagon was on stock pads/lines/fluid/stock f&r calipers and S-03's. I could stop on avg 2-5ft quicker than he could. Once he swapped to ss lines/4-2pots/hps pads it was reversed. 5 feet of braking for $1000 wasn't worth it IMHO. I'm going h6 rears/pads/fluid instead. I wish he still had the 03 so I could compare, but he's got an 05 STi now, though it'll be interesting to see how my upgrade compares to his Brembo's.
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Old 04-07-2008, 10:19 AM   #25
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Who has used the 4pots up front with oem brakes in the rear? Thats what I'm looking to do. I have no intention of putting the 2pots in the rear. I was just looking to see what peoples opinion were of 4pots front with oem rears.
Given that the H-6 rotors and 2-pot rotors are the same diameter, 290mm (just the H-6 isn't vented, whereas the 2-pot ones are), I'm sure their performance would largely be equal under most conditions.
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